Nietzsche's Spinoza

The ultimate rationalist and the poetic irrationalist, joined at the hip. It seems that Spinoza’s structural thinking on Being and Nietzsche’s social critique would make a formidable pair. In 1881 Nietzsche wrote:

“I am utterly amazed, utterly enchanted. I have a precursor, and what a precursor! I hardly knew Spinoza: that I should have turned to him just now was inspired by ‘instinct.’ Not only is his over-all tendency like mine — making knowledge the most powerful affect — but in five main points of his doctrine I recognize myself; this most unusual and loneliest thinker is closest to me precisely in these matters: he denies the freedom of the will, teleology, the moral world order, the unegoistic, and evil. Even though the divergencies are admittedly tremendous, they are due more to the differences in time, culture and science. In summa, my solitude, which as on very high mountains, often made it hard for me to breathe and made my blood rush out, is at least a dualitude.”

Does anyone have comments on the relationship between these two thinkers and the ways that they augment each other’s thought?

Dunamis

I made a comment but deleted it. I didn’t see the date, and my post was dependant on that. Nevermind.

I’ve had only a brief encounter with Spinoza at the library. Since you have now seduced me with a comment made by the moustache, Dunamis, I shall have to read Spinoza and seek these mountains he speaks of.

Detrop,

Spinoza is very difficult (i.e. boring) because he wrote as if he were Euclid. Keep in mind he made his living grinding glass into lenses. What is amazing is that despite his laborious form, he caught the immense imaginations of Goethe and Nietzsche. One can always dive directly into him and read through all the axioms, proofs and propositions, but perhaps if less enthused enter his thinking from the side doors. This is a very nice link ( spinoza.net/TSNMain.htm ), which has a great summation of his life and influence (particularly regarding the Pantheism Controversy), yet even presents original Latin texts. Deleuze also wrote an inspired book on him. There is something incredibly distilled about his writings. At the same time cold yet impassioned. It feels like the Spirit.

Dunamis

Dunamis:

I found this while browsing and if you don’t mind, I’ll post it here. I think its a decent introduction to the general gist.

I can delete it if you would like.

"The fundamental thing to keep in mind when thinking about Spinoza is one simple, striking, and paradoxical proposition: God is the only thing that exists. Although a relatively unfamiliar notion in Western philosophy and religion, this is a venerable position in India, and Spinoza’s theory can be classified as a version of “qualified Advaita Vedânta,” where everything that we ordinarily think of as existing, does exist as a part of God. It is also noteworthy that the Jewish-Islâmic Mediaeval mystical tradition also approached this. L.H. Grunebaum says of the Sufis, the Islamic mystics, “The mere attribution of reality to any entity besides the One is polytheism” [Medieval Islam, University of Chicago, 1946, 1969, p. 133].

In terms of modern philosophy, we have the term “pantheism,” that God is everything; but this can convey the wrong idea. It is not that God is everything, as though everything exists individually and is somehow God, but that nothing exists independently except God and that the “everything” we ordinarily think of is a feature of God. Another term occasionally used for Spinoza is “panentheism,” that God is “in” everything; but this is even more deceptive, since it makes it seem like God is a feature of things, rather than the other way around.

The way that Spinoza argues it is that there is only one substance, and then that there is only one individual of that substance. In the tradition of Anselm and Descartes, God is a “Necessary Being,” who cannot possibly not exist. Existence is part of his essence, and he cannot be without it. But existence is not the entire essence of God. Instead, the one substance is characterized by an infinite number of attributes. Besides existence, we are only aware of two of these: thought and extension. Thus, where Descartes had seen thought as the unique essence of the substance soul, and extension as the unique essence of the substance matter, Spinoza abolished this dualism, and the paradoxes it generated. Thought and extension are just two, out of an infinite number of, facets of Being. A reductionistic scientism that wants to claim Spinoza as one of its own typically overlooks this aspect of the theory: Spinoza’s God thinks, and also is or does many other things that are beyond our reckoning and comprehension. Thus, although Spinoza was condemned by his community for the heresy of saying that God has a body (denying the transcendence of God common to Judaism, Christianity, and Islâm), God is nevertheless much more, indeed infinitely more, than a body.

As God is eternal and infinite, so are his attributes eternal and infinite. The things we see that are transient and finite are the temporary modifications, or “modes,” of the attributes. This gives us the same relationship between things and the attributes as Descartes had between individual bodies and thoughts and their substances. A material thing is a piece of space itself (space is not the vacuum, but actually matter), the way an individual wave is identifiable in the ocean but does not exist apart from the water that it consists of. In the same way a specific thought is a temporary distrurbance of the attribute (like the Cartesian substance) of thought – or, we might say, of consciousness. The wave metaphor is apt: Our existence is a ripple on the surface of God.

The structure of substance, attribute, and mode is the foundation of Spinoza’s metaphysics. But there is another distinction that cuts across this, the difference between natura naturans and natura naturata. Natura is simply the Latin word “nature,” and what Spinoza has done is add participle endings to that noun. Naturans is thus “nature” plus the active participle ending, which is “-ing” in English; so “Natura Naturans” is “Nature Naturing.” Naturata is “nature” plus the past passive participle ending, which is “-ed” in English; so “Natura Naturata” is “Nature Natured.” This gives us a contrast between what is creating and what is created. What is creating is the eternal existance and nature of God. What is created are the modifications that we see around us as transient things. This distinction cuts across the nature of the attributes themselves, since there is an eternal and unchanging aspect to each, i.e. space itself or consciousness itself, and a transient and changing aspect, i.e material objects in space or specific thoughts in consciousness. At the same time, there is nothing changing about substance as such or unchanging about the modes as such.

While for Spinoza all is God and all is Nature, the active/passive dualism enables us to restore, if we wish, something more like the traditional terms. Natura Naturans is the most God-like side of God, eternal, unchanging, and invisible, while Natura Naturata is the most Nature-like side of God, transient, changing, and visible. When Buddhism says that there is no God, it means that there is no substantive, eternal, unchanging, invisible, and creative side to reality. One of Spinoza’s principal metaphysical categories, substance, is explicitly rejected by Buddhism. This is revealing, since it shows us how much there is to Spinoza’s metaphysics and Spinoza’s conception of God that would not have to be accepted, whether we are comparing it with Buddhism or, more importantly, with a reductionistic scientism.

How does Natura Naturans do the creating? By necessity, the necessity of God’s own nature. Spinoza’s God does not make choices, does not really have a will – which would imply deliberation or alternatives. Spinoza’s God is perfect, which means everything is as it must be and cannot be otherwise. God’s eternal nature necessitates the things that happen, which happen just as they must and cannot happen otherwise. This all follows from the premise of God’s perfection. It is deterministic. Chance or randomness would be an imperfection. Since only God exists, it is also true that God causes everything to happen that does happen. This is the “Occasionalism” developed by the Cartesian Malbranche, that the only cause of anything is God himself; but determinism and occasionalism are also characteristic of Islâmic theology, especially that of al-'Ash’arî (873-935) and of the philosopher al-Ghazâlî (1059-1111). This is Spinoza at his most Islâmic. However, Spinoza goes a bit further. His God does nothing for any purpose. There are no ends or “final causes” in Spinoza. It would be an insult to God’s perfection to imagine that he does things to bring about some end, which would mean to make things better or to bring into existence something that doesn’t exist already but should. Things are already perfect, and everything that will ever exist already exists, since God (we recall) is the only thing that exists.

The purpose of mystical rapture is often not just to see God or know God directly, but to become one with God through complete loss of self. This is what we often see in Islâmic mysticism, Sûfism, but also in India, where the self can ultimately be identical (advaita, “non-dual”) with Brahman. In Spinoza, indeed, there is no independent substantial self. The Qur’ân says that God is as close to us as the juggular vein, but Spinoza goes rather further than this. Everything that we are is just a modification of an attribute of God, just a small and transient part of the existence of God. We are absolutely nothing apart from God. This gives a considerably stronger impression that we might think from the notion of the “intellectual love of God” that Spinoza is often said to recommend. To really feel an absolute absorption into God and abolition of self (fanâ’, “extinction” in Arabic) would be a mystical rapture indeed. This may be the key to the emotional pull of Spinoza’s theory for him: It would be a consolation of religion indeed for him to lose all sense that his life, circumstances, and misfortunes are of more than the most trivial consequence. Sub specie aeternitatis, from the viewpoint of eternity, nothing imperfect ever happens, and we can imagine Spinoza transported right out of his own rather sad and solitary existence into the comforting companionship of God.

This is the key to Spinoza’s paradoxical and even disturbing view that things like right and wrong, good and evil, do not exist for God. Things only appear right or wrong, good or evil, to a self, and the self does not have substantial existence. Spinoza rather heatedly disputes the relevance of this to God, in whom all is perfect. It is only our selfishness that generates these dichotomies. However, we also might say that it is selfishness that results in wrongs and evils as matters of action, since people do bad things expecting some personal benefit from them. It would not occur to someone without sense of self to be harming others for personal gain. This is an area where Spinoza is appealing to Schopenhauer, who sees selflessness as the motive for good and noble action, and who sees the denial of self as the basis of all holiness and emancipation from the Will. But where Schopenhauer would see holy selflessness as freedom from the thing-in-itself as Will, Spinoza would see it as freeing us from the transient and the individual to become one with God. Where Schopenhauer, a determinist also, saw the denial of the Will as the only truly free action available to us, the corresponding free action for Spinoza, as we might interpret him, would be to turn towards God.

While a deterministic Natura Naturata would be a world safe for science, it should now be clear that Spinoza’s doctrine allows for the solace of religion by a mystical turn towards something that is invisible to science, the eternal and unchanging Natura Naturans, the infinite essence and existence of God. This is more than enough to enable us to understand Spinoza as the “God intoxicated man,” whose convictions got him through the tauma of rejection by his own people and a brief life when it was not even safe to openly publish his views. This all qualifies him, in Schopenhauer’s terms, as a Saint – someone who is no longer troubled by the misfortunes and ordinary expectations of life. It also enables us to see Spinoza in his proper place in the history of Judaism, in the mystical tradition so characteristic of the Middle Ages, but sharing rather more with Islâm and Neoplatonism than with Biblical based Judaism or Christianity."

Detrop,

It is a nice wide summation of a deep vein of thought. Central to it seem to be the conceptual idea:

“A material thing is a piece of space itself (space is not the vacuum, but actually matter), the way an individual wave is identifiable in the ocean but does not exist apart from the water that it consists of.”

I like the comparisons to Islamic thought (Moorish Spain is never far from Jewish philosophy) but what comes to mind is that mentioned thinking of al-Ghazali (1058-1111) regarding cause and effect (pre-dating Hume’s position by six centuries)

“the conjunction (al-‘qtiran) between what is conceived by way of habit (fi al`adah) as cause and effect is not necessary (laysa daruriyyan).”

For al-Ghazali, the necessary cause of what actually occurred was God, and that the habitual perception of strict causality was an illusion. This is where for me Spinoza meets his limit and where references to Plotinus are helpful. What Hegel found lacking in Spinoza is the absence of Negation, which I would perhaps better describe as Becoming. What Plotinus adds is the concept of gradations of Being. What thought does is amplify the number of relations or effects, which results in an increase in Being. I suggest that if one keeps with Spinoza’s definitions of body, power and effect, yet replace necessity (in the al-Ghazali sense) with random, yet materially (that is monophysite) directed unfolding, we comes up with a unified, immanent whole that is coming into relation (Being) through consciousness and thought. Nietzsche’s powerful social critiques and Overman aspirations (add in Foucault here if you like), suddenly become spiritualized and contextualized as Immanent within Being.

Dunamis

from : swan.ac.uk/german/fns/98/plane.htm

‘The tick is God; there is no difference of category, there is no difference of substance, there is no difference of form. It becomes a mad thought.’"1

Spinoza´s Ethic proceeds, Deleuze says, via ‘a quite malicious system’. Two books in one, a system which is ‘simultaneously written twice’, the Ethic is at once continuous, rational and geometric, and the discontinuous, affective and aggressive.

The affective version constitutes ethic as ‘a theory and a practice of powers of being affected’ and opposes ‘all of morality’, under the name of satirics. For Deleuze, it is in his affective mobilization of ethic against the two sicknesses of hatred and remorse that Spinoza is so clever, in the Nietschean sense. Spinoza names with the terms hatred and remorse what Nietzsche will name ressentiment and bad conscience. It is this aspect of Spinoza that Nietzsche praises.

Nietzsche is critical of other aspects of Spinoza´s thought.His philosophy is dressed in a ‘hocus-pocus of mathematical form’ [BGE5]: Spinoza´s critique of the moral god leaves ‘the old beloved, infinite, boundlessly creative God’ still living.[WP1062] He condemns especially the concept of conatus as ‘the symptom of a condition of distress…’[GS349] and a superfluous teleological principle.

Nietzsche and Spinoza connect throughout Deleuze´s philosophy…"

from : northern.edu/blanchak/theopol9.html

"Spinoza.
Like Augustine, Spinoza stands as an outsider. He looks at Christian civilization and wishes to transform it according to the dictates of reason. He does so by becoming the “Marrano of Reason.” He pretends to be a pantheist while being in fact an atheist. He intends to bring about a world in which the Christian value of charity is all that is left of religion, people patiently obey their leaders, religion is completely separated from politics, and the intellectual authority shifts from theologians to scientists. He succeeds.
Nietzsche.
Nietzsche lives in the world created by the success of Spinoza and his fellow moderns. That world is technological: aimed at increasing man’s power over the environment. But to what end? Not for any grand and glorious purposes: greatness and glory went out with religion. Nietzsche’s world is a world of fatally weakened religious impulses. God, he said famously, is dead. Nor is this power to be exercised on behalf of heroes or any heroic morality. His world is a world in which democracy has triumphed or is on the way to a triumph. The many will rule, and they will rule not for the sake of honor but of comfort. Nietzsche sees a world in which all greatness and beauty is being dragged down to the level of the World Federation of Wrestling. He hates it. And like Spinoza, he sets out to destroy it. "

there is actually a great deal of literature on this subject throughout the web…

-Imp

Imp,

Thanks for these connections. As to:

"“Spinoza´s critique of the moral god leaves ‘the old beloved, infinite, boundlessly creative God’ still living.[WP1062]”

Nietzsche may very well have thought that, but I’m not sure how “beloved” this God remains after the possibility of God loving one back is removed. As Spinoza suggests,

“he who truly loves God must not desire God to love him in return”

Which is a profound ethical position, (which even has psychoanalytic overtones).

Regarding,

“there is actually a great deal of literature on this subject throughout the web…”

I do realize that. I was wondering if anyone has thought about it and would like to synthesize it in new ways. What does the prospect of combining Spinoza and Nietzsche hold for a philosophical position? Is the best combination of them Deleuzian post-structuralism? Can the two be reconciled outside of post-structuralism? If Spinoza’s radical definitions open up rational foundations for Nietzschean proscriptives, is Nietzsche somehow “redeemed” against his will? Just some of the questions in my mind. For me Spinoza lays the groundwork for immanent philosophies, linking idealism and empiricism possibly to Neo-Platonism, (without resorting dualism). An interesting dynamic.

Dunamis

According to Spinoza, concepts of “right” and “wrong” are equally necessary extensions of a disinterested God, but given opposing values because of a rational interception of desire and passion through thought extension. Nietzsche attacks from the wrong front, Imp. Spinoza’s God is not dead because this God has no moral inclinations.

Spinoza’s moral formula is essentially another imperative logic, deduced from ascetic principles and duty. It has nothing to do with a beautiful and grand God’s concerns.

At least that’s what I’ve learned so far.

Those are great, aren’t they?

Detrop,

Yes. I believe that the Lacanian analyst’s function is essentially not to “love” the client back and to force him/her to face his own desire. This is strikingly similar to Spinoza’s God that must be loved but will not/cannot love back. The God that dies in Nietzsche must surely be this God, the answering God, and the embrace of the Return, the asp in Zarathustra’s throat, not far off from the alienating shadow cast by Spinoza’s materiality.

Dunamis

Both thinkers, heavily influenced by the Stoics, prized the active as opposed to reactive (or passive). In Spinoza the active state is gained through use of reason which allows a mastery of effects

“Spinoza asserts that the mind has adequate and inadequate ideas. The mind is active insofar as it has adequate ideas, and is passive insofar as it has inadequate ideas. The mind may have more or less adequate ideas, according to whether it is more or less subject to reason. The mind may have more or less inadequate ideas, according to whether it is more or less subject to emotion.”

[i]“I say expressly, that the mind has not an adequate but only a confused knowledge of itself, its own body, and of external bodies, whenever it perceives things after the common order of nature; that is, whenever it is determined from without, namely, by the fortuitous play of circumstance, to regard this or that; not at such times as it is determined from within, that is, by the fact of regarding several things at once, to understand their points of agreement, difference, and contrast. Whenever it is determined in anywise from within, it regards things clearly and distinctly, as I will show below.

Ethics, part 2: PROP. 29 Corollary, Note”[/i]

While Nietzsche seems to call for a kind of embrace of emotion, but a purified, elevated emotion devoid of self-critique, as though making of oneself a force of Nature.

[i]“Finally, lets look around in history: up to now in what area has the whole implementation of law in general as well as the essential need for law been at home? Could it be in the area of the reactive human beings? That is entirely wrong. It is much more the case that its been at home with the active, strong, spontaneous, and aggressive men. Historically considered, the law on earth - let me say this to the annoyance of the above-mentioned agitator (who himself once made the confession “The doctrine of revenge runs through all my work and efforts as the red thread of justice”) - represents that very struggle against the reactive feelings, the war with them on the part of active and aggressive powers, which have partly used up their strength to put a halt to or restrain reactive pathos and to compel some settlement with it

On the Genealogy of Morals”[/i]

What is interesting here is both thinkers are celebrating the active over the passive. The active freedom that Spinoza finds in rational thought, Nietzsche seems to find in Dionysian release, but this activity becomes Law making. Can these two come together? Perhaps in Phenomenology’s world-creating consciousness the two are joined; ex nihilo, with almost Promethean power, consciousness summons a world into Being, yet Ideationally it is through thought (Logos) that all the parts are connected, and this world is joined to all others, communicating effects, materially. Knowledge is power, is Being.

There seems to be in Nietzsche a resentment of resentment which for me condemns his project as a reaction still, which at times shakes free from those shackles. Yet Spinoza points out with more axiomatic clarity the over-riding condition, if freed from morality and transcendental thinking:

reality is perfection (II, Def. VI). The more perfect a thing is, the more real it is. Inasmuch as God is absolutely perfect, God is ultimate reality. God is infinitely perfect, and infinitely real.

The more perfect a thing is, the more active and less passive it is. The more active a thing is, the more it becomes perfect (IV, Prop. XL).

Perfection and imperfection are thus modes of thinking. The mind is most perfect when it knows God.
Spinoza argues that knowledge of good and evil arises from the awareness of what causes pleasure and pain. The greatest good of the mind, and its greatest virtue, is to know God (IV, Prop. XXVIII).

Nietzsche strikes me more as the self-blinded Oedipus who wanders around half-mad, half-divine, stricken with the failings of past awareness (resentment of his sight), but unable to summon a new awareness that is sufficient, beyond his own condition. Spinoza more a Terisias who knows having seen. One has the beautiful ravings of a Syphilitic madman, one the observations of a patient grinder of lenses who would die from the fineness of the dust. Each seems to be responding to the same radical truth, Immanence, in very different ways.

Dunamis

-Imp

-Imp

Imp.,

“Nietzsche needs no redemption; but yes, it could be an interesting blending…”

Do you think it can be done in the sense that like Spinoza, Nietzsche favored a trans-human approach, which unlike Spinoza, it seemed derived from the yet as psychoanalytically labeled Unconscious, Instinct, yet instinct as a creative force. As Spinoza favored the rational mind over emotion, could it be that what Nietzsche did was expand just what the Mind was, beyond conscious contemplation, i.e. the question of just what was rational and relational became larger and more potent? I think that these elements are already within Spinoza’s philosophical language (in his discussions of the power of the body), but I’m not sure that he grasped their implications in the way that Nietzsche has.

Dunamis

I don’t believe so…

trans human for Nietzsche would be breeding the overman, overcoming humanity by creating something more…
trans human for spinoza would be oneness with god and the universe, not creating anything new, but stagnating with only that which exists…

being in the oneness is not a creative act, and nietzsche was far too artistic…

and no, spinoza did appeal to the rational- that which nietzsche called apollinian… of course we know that nietzsche embrased the dionysian (the opposite)…

-Imp

Imp.

But what Spinoza had over Nietzsche though was the understanding that even in the most Instinctive overcoming of the Self, one accomplishes such, not in a vacuum, but through greater harmony with forces beyond one, that the private fostering of power and transformation is fed by understanding, if only instinctive understanding, of a kind of Logos-process. The Overman even though he destroys old harmonies, he creates new ones. Spinoza was the inspired Pythia of the oracle of Apollo, drunk on clarity. Nietzsche, caught in the maelstrom of creation could not see the vista within which he was working. Spinoza from his height, perhaps could not envision the creative power and experience of instinctive knowing. Spinoza was the cartographer, Nietzsche the explorer. I’m not sure that Nietzsche ever left Spinoza’s map, nor if Spinoza knew his own map as intimately as Nietzsche.

Dunamis

but no, nietzsche knew exactly what he was saying… very clearly…

and the difference makes itself clear… nietzsche was not interested in overcoming oneself persay… why would the aristocrat overcome himself? it isn’t enough simply to be the diamond… one must create as such…

beyond one…

Antichrist 6 "…I call an animal, a species, an individual corrupt, when it loses its instincts, when it chooses, when it prefers, what is injurious to it. A history of the “higher feelings,” the “ideals of humanity”–and it is possible that I’ll have to write it–would almost explain why man is so degenerate. Life itself appears to me as an instinct for growth, for survival, for the accumulation of forces, for power: whenever the will to power fails there is disaster. My contention is that all the highest values of humanity have been emptied of this will–that the values of decadence, of nihilism, now prevail under the holiest names. "

Antichrist 17-"Wherever the will to power begins to decline, in whatever form, there is always an accompanying decline physiologically, a decadence. The divinity of this decadence, shorn of its masculine virtues and passions, is converted perforce into a god of the physiologically degraded, of the weak. Of course, they do not call themselves the weak; they call themselves “the good.” . . . …They spun their webs around him for so long that finally he was hypnotized, and began to spin himself, and became another metaphysician. Thereafter he resumed once more his old business of spinning the world out of his inmost being sub specie Spinozae; thereafter he be came ever thinner and paler–became the “ideal,” became “pure spirit,” became “the absolute,” became “the thing-in-itself.” . . . The collapse of a god: he became a “thing-in-itself.” "

-Imp

Imp,

Nietzsche’s: “I call an animal, a species, an individual corrupt, when it loses its instincts, when it chooses, when it prefers, what is injurious to it.”

Could have been taken from Spinoza’s Ethics, part 3:

"Prop XI

Whatsoever increases or diminishes, helps or hinders
the power of activity in our body, the idea thereof
increases or diminishes, helps or hinders the power of
thought in our mind.

Prop. XII.
XII-LVII
Bk.XIV:2:208

The mind, as far as it can, endeavours to conceive those
things, which increase or help the power of activity in the
body.

Prop. XIII.

When the mind conceives things which diminish or hinder
the body’s power of activity, it endeavours, as far as
possible, to remember things which exclude the existence
of the first-named things."

Whereas his: “Wherever the will to power begins to decline, in whatever form, there is always an accompanying decline physiologically, a decadence.”

Does not seem to see that instead of declining in decadence, the call is ever to greater potency, beyond the limits of the body. The body is simply an assemblage of effects, the ability to effect and be effected. An idea is just another body. Nietzsche, drunk on instinct, does not realize that Instinct is just another force and body, operating not fundamentally different then the ideations he decries.

Prop. VI.

Everything, in so far as it is in itself, endeavours to
persist in its own being.

Prop. VII.

The endeavour, wherewith everything endeavours to
persist in its own being, is nothing else but the actual
essence of the thing in question.

Prop. VIII.

The endeavour, whereby a thing endeavours to persist
in its being, involves no finite time, but an indefinite time.

Prop. IX.

The mind, both in so far as it has clear and distinct
ideas, and also in so far as it has confused ideas,
endeavours to persist in its being for an indefinite
period, and of this endeavour it is conscious.

Finite definition

"That thing is called free, which exists solely by the
necessity of its own nature, and of which the action is
determined by itself alone. On the other hand, that thing
is necessary, or rather constrained, which is determined by
something external to itself to a fixed and definite method of existence or action { finite }.

Dunamis

no, there is a huge difference… Nietzsche says “prefers”

and no, for Nietzsche there is nothing but body…

“pure spirit is pure lie…”

-Imp

Imp.,

I am not saying that they are strictly in agreement, but the proposition: “Everything, in so far as it is in itself, endeavours to persist in its own being”, does open itself up to some Nietzschean correspondence, for this is Nietzsche’s claim, that moralizing in that it is injurious to the self is something that is not “in itself” “persisting in its own being”. (For Spinoza such a preference, if it is “in itself” an active, rational choice, it would be an act of preservation, something that Nietzsche would never admit). But what I suggest is that while for both of them there is no Body vs. Spirit, Spinoza is able to capture just what a body is in the dynamic of effects, which is no different than what an idea is, that is as a mode of the infinite substance. Nietzsche, if he were to rebut this would have to have recourse to something other than the protesting of the Spirit (as a dualism) because for Spinoza it is all one substance. I believe that Nietzsche lived his life so much in protest, so much in reaction, he had a very hard time taking stock of the inventory he had discovered. Perhaps this is the difference of being alienated in your own culture as a German, and being an outcast in your own persecuted subculture as a Jew.

Dunamis