Uccisore, I do not mean this as an attack but an opinion. Your first post on this board was in response to me on this very subject, and it was pure nonsense. 5500 posts later and you have made no progress. I do not mind that you have your beliefs, but uttering pure nonsense to piss people off is a waste of my and other peoples’ time. If it was even clever, it would be fine with me, but I see no wit at all.
Again, just my opinion.
Are you fucking retarded? What the hell do you mean by “there is no good reason to believe in the existence of atheists”? How is that even the issue? I am an atheist, Ellen Johnson the president of American Atheists Inc is an atheist, Richard Dawkins is an atheist, Carl Sagan (although dead) was an atheist, YOU were born an atheist until were introduced to the concept of “god”… Atheists are all over the place!
I thought the main issue was the existence of a god, not the existence of the people who lack the belief in a god. Atheism is not a religion. If atheism were a religion then NOT collection stamps would be a hobby and “bald” would be a hair color.
TO ANYONE WHO IS NOT A THEIST: you are by definition an atheist. Sorry to break it to you, but hey… thats English for you. The prefix “a-” means “without”. If you are without theism you are an a-theist. Its that simple. Live with it.
Whether or not you choose to assert that there is no god is up to you. If you say “I believe that no god exists” then the burden of proof is shifted to you. By the same token if you say “I believe that a god exists” then you also have the burden of proof. I thought you guys were into philosophy. How is it that that mistake is made over and over and over and over and over and over again and again?
Atheism is the act of not accepting a very specific claim: “there is a god”. There is a difference between “i believe there is no god” and “I do not believe there is a god”. If you lack the belief in the existence of god then you do not have the burden of proof because it is impossible to prove a negative. You can only prove a positive. If you assert a positive, like “there is no god”, then you are making the same mistake that theists make, which is believing in something which has no proof.
You were born an atheist. You were born without the knowledge of a concept of theism. The only reason the word “atheism” is applied to anyone (of any age whether adult or newborn) is because the word “theist” exists. Its sad really. Its one of the few things where there is a defined “X-ist” AND a defined “a-X-ist”.
You wouldn’t call yourself an “a-Elvis-is-still-alive-ist” or an “a-unicorn-ist” or an “a-vampire-ist”. Applying these labels would be absurd. But technically if you do not believe that Elvis is alive then you are an a-Elvis-is-alive-ist. Its not about whether or not you like the sound of a word. Its simple English.
But anyway back to the issue at hand. The existence of a god or gods. Outside the one source of the various theisms (i.e. Christianity’s “The Bible” and Islam’s “The Quran”) where’s the proof? Where’s the rationalization? What reason is there to believe that the theistic claims are true? The issue isn’t about what’s morally right and wrong. The issue is directly related to the existence of the alleged “source” or “cause” or “creator” of it all.
Do you hold theistic claims to be true because you like the way they sound? Or because you think they’re actually correct?
You, being a theist, believe in some god. I’m going to assume that you are a believer in some derivative of the god of Christianity: Yahweh (if thats not the case then correct me, but it really doesn’t matter). Why Yahweh? Why not Zeus? Why not Thor? Why not The Flying Spaghetti Monster? Why not Vishnu? Why not Allah? Why not Venus?
You lack the belief in these gods right? You may even go so far as to say that they do not exist. You have no reason other than personal preference and social encounters and relationships to favor Yahweh over Zeus. Not a single shred of REAL evidence has been brought forth EVER to justify believing in Yahweh over Zeus, not to mention believing in Yahweh all together.
No where in this entire post, nor in my entire life, have I ever claimed that no god of any quantity or quality exists. Accept for here. I will claim that there is no such thing as a god in the exact same sense that there are no unicorns, leprechauns, fairies, flying spaghetti monsters, vampires, werewolves, or mermaids. There is an equal amount of evidence to support the existence of all these things INCLUDING what you refer to as a “god”. I will also admit that I am not able to prove the non-existence of any of those things, nor will I try. Its up to the believer to prove existence.
Oh, I get it now. You’re poking fun at atheists, saying there’s as much evidence for the existence of atheists as for the existence of God. Unfortunately, while that’s humorous, it’s also incorrect.
I tend to stay out of the religion forum because I have no interest in discussing dogma, and I generally don’t care if someone wants to think god exist or not. For me, I tried the theist thing, and It didn’t work out. I was raised Christian, I was baptized, and I never once believed in god. I don’t think it is a epistemological nor an ontological matter, it is a matter of psychology, and from the psychology follows a framework that influences the other two disciplines. I find Atheist arguments as distasteful as Theist arguments, when it comes to trying to find an ontological or epistemological reason for god to exist or not.
If someone wants to recite proofs of god to me, and tell me that is why they believe, I generally get the feeling that they are kidding themselves, and trying to rationalize an absurdity within there world view. Likewise, if someone wants to try and disprove proofs of god, I have the same feeling of some kind of inauthenticity laced within their words, and I find it absurd and bizarre.
I’m an Atheist because I literally cannot believe in god.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard of any atheist who has tried to actually prove that a god does not exist. Perhaps someone can provide a link to a video or a book or something. All i ever hear from self proclaimed atheists are things that equate to theistic claims not holding the water that they are alleged to hold.
Wow, Ucci- I’ve seen you whistling past the graveyard before but you must really be bored tonite. 
alexmabee
Hey, someone gets it. Honestly, if one more person posted in here about how they don’t need evidence for the non-existence of God, I was gonna cry.
So you say, now prove it. What you’ve given examples of, are not atheists. You’ve given me examples of people who have claimed to be atheists. You want me to start giving examples of people who will claim to have been reincarnated? People who will claim to have been possessed? I need more.
But let’s stick with you. Go ahead and prove that you’re an atheist. You want me to take your word for it? You gonna tell me about the special feeling in your heart that makes you sure you’re an atheist?
Ah, but that’s not the issue at hand. Wow, even alex only got the point for about one second. So far, Zeus, you’re the closest to my point, though you aren’t quite there.
Skeptic- I’m reading over my first posts ever, and while you’re there, and it’s about religion, I don’t see any deeper connection than that.
Phaedrus- Do you get it? Tell me you get it. I’m started to get really worried about all the people who have apparently responded to my post without reading it first. People who never even come to the Religion forum, have made a special point of replying to this thread, and apparently they didn’t read it first. Tell me you read it. But in answer to your comment, I’m pretty sure it’s a reaction to pain killers and not boredom.
Tortoise
So you're granting to me that we can't prove that atheists exist, it's about probabilities now. I can accept that. And by the way, I'm not a [i]hard[/i] aatheistist, I'm a [i]soft[/i] aatheistist, so don't expect me to prove that atheists don't exist. I don't claim to know that.
I don’t see what the existence of God has to do with it - God could exist, and there could be atheists. God could not exist, and there could be no atheists. They aren’t exclusive. But I’m interested in your evidence for the existence of atheists. What did you have in mind? I hope you have something stronger than ‘many people claim to be atheists’.
See, this is why I don’t read or post in this forum, the arguments are such that I cannot tell when people are being serious or not.
Thanks, ucci, the one time I venture over, I am deceived. 
I claim that I am an atheist.
I am here posting on this forum.
Therefore I exist.
Therefore at least one atheist exists.
Your argument is just plain stupid. Can you prove that theists exist? Would you even waist time thinking about it?
Under the context that atheism means:
disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.
as opposed to:
the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
then the simple answer is Occam’s Razor, that is:
an explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory.
Most atheists, such as myself, will propound upon the significance of what sort of God-concept we’re talking about, especially what with people’s love for so frivolously labeling “God” upon things. God is an extremely subjective concept that really, anymore, relies upon the magnitude of the individual to determine.
Most atheists would rather target the contemporary monotheistic Abrahamic God, because it’s, well, contemporary. Zeus is a bit outdated (the Greek deity, not the ILP poster) and has little sociological or political impact. Most martyrs don’t blow themselves up to smithereens for Zeus’ sake.
So just as Skeptic said, my view unlike yours, is not absolutely rigid and dogmatic in the face of alternating context. If you, like Spinoza, intimate the idea of one all-consuming, all-encompassing “substance” or “nature” as being your God, than I’m afraid I’m going to have to agree with you. But if you adhere to today’s omniscient, conscious presence and engineer of all that is, then I am what it means to be an atheist.
First of all, you assume the word “god” actually has some sort of meaning, all real concepts derive their meaning from the real world, or a projection of it.
God has no definition that is understandable to us. All one has is projection of human mental capability at an imagined (infinite) extreme range, and we define that extreme intelligence as “god” but it is still a projection of ourselves.
A word that describes a thing, doesn’t mean the thing exists just because the word does.
I read it, Ucci. I was just giving you crap in (what I considered) a good natured way. 
Tortoise
Well, you don’t have any evidence for that, but I’ll accept it tentatively, sure.
Nope. Disbelief in a conscious divine entity is irrational. So irrational, in fact, that I don’t see any reason to believe that anybody has ever done so.
I think by definition, yes!
I never said it was impossible, I just said I don’t think there happen to be any. You can’t base your argument on atheism being a rational thing to believe, since as a theist, I certainly have no reason to accept that.
alexmabee
You know, we had somebody claiming to be a demon post here for a while. We had somebody claiming to be an alien back a few years ago, too. If I pulled the right strings, I could get somebody claiming to be a reincarnated atlantean war chief, as well. Are you sure you want to argue from “Somebody claims to be X” to “Therefore, X exists”? Or are you claiming that ‘atheist’ means ‘any person who claims to be an atheist’?
I haven’t made an argument. I’m simply somebody who fails to believe in atheists.
Of course I can’t, don’t be silly. I happen to think I am one, but I know I can’t prove it, and I would never suggest somebody was ‘fucking retarded’ if they didn’t believe me. You, though, seem to take a very firm stance on the existence of atheists. So I’ll ask you again- do you have any evidence, or don’t you? You, as one who has come into this thread and declared that atheists exist, and furthermore, that it’s obvious, have the burden of proof, not me.
I guess I forgot why I had abandoned this forum. I just hate to believe that there are really people out there like this. It depresses me. Oh and are you really nihilist? If so, do you get bored? (Real question. Maybe ignorance, but still curious.)
Provalone, I love that monologue from Douglas Adams. It is truly beautiful.
Tortoise
Wouldn’t matter if you did. After all, I’ve argued for the rationality of claims that I didn’t actually believe, haven’t I?
Take a cubic yard of desert sand. For any particular grain, there is the proposition that it is a certain distance away from every other grain. Each of these propositions could be the basis for a rational belief. I reckon we’re talking about hundreds of millions of rational beliefs right there. Now, how many grains of sand in the whole desert? On Earth? In the solar system?
The point is, there’s a practically endless number of propositions that could be believed rationally, and that doesn’t mean there’s somebody out there believing them.
Whoa whoa whoa Ucci… hold on… let me see if i can clear up some confusion.
Are claiming that there is no proof that the person (who claims so be an atheist) exists?
Or are you claiming that there is no proof that the atheism (in that person) exists?
Theres a big difference between the two.
It might not be easy for me to prove to you that I personally exist. But really, you have no rational justification for believing that I do not exist. Only humans (so far) have ever been reported to be able to use a computer, so that means the text you are reading is from a human. You personally had to have made contact with at least one human in your lifetime (if not then I’d love to hear how you refute that one). So that means you have had experiences and encounters with humans. I may not be able to prove that I exist (cuz you’re right i could be a computer program), but you do not have a rational justification to think that i do not exist. What’s more, is that you HAVE a rational justification to believe that i DO exist.
Throughout the rigamaroo of this entire thread you have flip flopped back and forth between “atheists don’t exist” and “atheism doesn’t exist” or something to that effect. Oh and yes you did make an argument. Your argument was in the title of the original thread:
I’ve never heard of atheistism. I think you made it up. It sounds like it means “the belief that atheists exist”. Have you not read a news paper, or watched videos online, or seen any books in the book store and seen any content that came from a person who claims to be an atheist?
Ok here’s the stupid argument. If its not an argument (which it is) then its just a stupid comment. Here in this quote you are equating “states of physical being” to “states of mind”. Being in the form of a physical object, and having a set of thoughts in your head are two COMPLETELY different things, and it is irrational to claim that thoughts in a person’s head require proof of their existence. Simply uttering them is proof that they are there. If they weren’t there then the couldn’t be uttered. Thats simple logic.
Here you are twisting the question around. I asked you if theists exist. Not if theism exists in any particular person.
But ok if you want to play the “since there is no definitive proof that they are an atheist, then they must be lying about it and they really are a theist” card, then I question your motives and your education. If you want to simply state that “there is no justification to believe that atheism doesnt exist” then you should try a little harder at debunking the claims that are made in favor of the existence of the thing you claim is not likely to exist.
By your logic you can say that there is no evidence for ANY mindset of ANY kind. Its a pointless case to make. Unless you are simply trying to bring up a trippy epistemological paradox then say so. Because that would be worth while. But to simply state that there is no evidence for the existence of a specific mindset commonly known as “atheism” then what the hell is the point?
I would only offer that philosophy websites which provide religion forums are not real.
How can they be?
alexmabee
My claim is that there is no good reason to believe in atheists.
There are certain people who claim to be atheists, I don’t dispute that. But, people claim all kinds of things.
Oh sure, I believe you exist. I just don’t have any evidence that you’re an atheist, other than your say-so.
Well, I think I came up with the term, but I certainly wouldn’t be the first person to claim that everybody who says they are an atheist, really isn’t. Surely you’ve heard Christians say that atheists all secretly believe in God, and are just angry with Him? That’s not my position, but it’s comparable.
Yep, I’ve seen all kinds of people claim to be atheists. Ab-so-lutely. The problem is, I believe in God, and I think God’s existence is pretty obvious. So, anybody who would claim that they think God doesn’t exist isn’t a reliable witness.
I am surely not. Neither of these people claimed that if you met them in person, you would see anything other than a human being. They were a demon or alien in some sort of perfect disguise. Similarly, I’ve heard many atheists say that they’re “just like everybody else” too, and in general make claims that you couldn’t tell them from any other regular person- except that they are an atheist, which I have to believe based on their say-so.
Refutation: Do you suppose it’s possible that I actually do believe in atheists, and that I’m just saying I don’t to make some sort of point, or explore some angle of epistemology? Do you suppose that it’s possible that I’m denying the existence of atheists out of wishful thinking, or because it makes me feel better to believe that everybody ‘really’ believes in God? If you think either of those situations are possible, then it seems to me that no, somebody telling you they think a certain way is NOT proof that they actually think that way.
I take it you would disagree with me if I did claim that?
Take it for what it is. Trying to figure out if I actually believe the things I’m presenting here is just setting yourself up to commit an ad hominem. But yes, now that you’ve raised it, I think the question how and why we believe people when they tell us what they believe is a good question to ask.
yopele
Now that’s using your noggin!
It’s the East Australian Current that entices me to use my noggin, though of course I may be lying as I say this or exaggerating as to the extent I have been enticed, but as a non-existent atheist, I feel I am at total liberty to act in this manner.
The denial of atheism is such a release.