No Evidence for Atheistism.

Philosophy Forums Religion and Spirituality
1

I woke this morning, and something seemed different. It’s as though I had dropped a heavy burden, or taken of some thick glasses that I no longer needed- thinking just seemed easier, the world just seemed to make more sense, when I realized that I, and that we rational human beings, had no evidence whatsoever for atheism.

Atheism was something I had always taken for granted, never given it much thought when I was younger. But now that I do think about it, I realize that my entire case for atheism rested on a few people who's authority I trusted. People who told me they had 'spoken' with atheists.  Even a couple who claimed to be atheists themselves. 

But really, is that sufficient evidence? I mean sure, I've seen a couple people who have claimed to have been atheists on the internet, but there are people on the internet who claim to be vampires, witches, eskimos, and all sorts of stuff that doesn't exist. It seems to me that this is just another one of those. 

We have to accept in this modern age that there are many psychological reasons that would cause a person to have an atheist-experience. I myself have had very deep experiences that I used to describe as "being spoken to by an atheist", and at the time, those were very moving encounters, that provoked very real emotions. But I think once a person approaches their own belief system critically, they have to be open to other interpretations. 

Most of all, I feel bad for those few people who claim to be atheists themselves.  I don't have much to say to them- I mean, they 'know in their heart' that they are atheists, and it's unlikely that any rational argument will change their minds about this, I realize that.  Someone's faith in their own atheism is a deeply personal thing, and I wouldn't want to take that away from somebody that wasn't ready for that step. My hope, though, is that as belief in atheism evolves, it might be a little more tolerant- I think there's a lot the atheistist community could learn from people who think they are Napoleon, or people who think their heads are made of glass, who as a whole have a much better track-records for accepting (even to the point of communal living) with those who have non-traditional, non-rational concepts of the self.
2

Sounds pretty absurd, doesn’t it? :smiley:

3

Well, I don’t want to judge atheistists too strongly until they’ve had a chance to make their case (not that I think they have one), but from my perspective it does, yes.

4

The antithesis of “atheist” is not “god”, but “theist” (believer in (a) god(s)).

There are different kinds of atheism. Strong atheism is as much a belief as theism: the belief that no gods exist. Weak atheism however, even if explicit, is just the absence of belief in any gods, not a belief in itself. The latter, which we may also call “agnosticism” (unless I have missed a crucial difference between that and explicit weak atheism), is the most philosophical position on gods: “I don’t know if any gods exist, and I don’t know if it is possible for a human being to know.”

And the philosophical conclusion that follows from this is: “I may suppose the non-existence of any gods.” For the argument “I’d better believe in Jesus, for Christianity might be true, and if it is, I will go to hell if I don’t believe in Jesus” is moot, as at least two mutually exclusive such arguments exist: the one already mentioned and the same with “Allah” substituted for “Jesus” and “Christianity” by “Islam”. In fact, an infinite number of such arguments can be made: “I’d better believe in the great spaghetti monster, for I might be eternally boiled in a pan of spaghetti after my death if I don’t”.

5

Is that supposed to be some sort of probabilistic argument for the existence of atheists? I’m not disputing that atheism is possible, I mean, it’s possible for there to be a teapot orbiting the Sun, you know.

6

I don’t believe in God or gods, etc. I am considered by theists to be an atheist. I really don’t consider myself an atheist until I am having a discussion with a theist like yourself.

There may be a god, but the lack of necessity for a god leads myself along with other termed “atheists” to not believe in such a concept. I do have beliefs though. I belief in the scientific method, and that I exist, among many other beliefs that make sense to me.

You believe the things that make sense to you. I can present you with the reasons that I don’t feel the need for a god-figure, but you won’t believe me. You could present me with the reasons you feel that a god-figure is the only answer, but I won’t believe it. Why is it that we can see things so differently? I don’t know. I guess our brains are just configured differently. Maybe I’m smarter than you. Maybe your smarter than me.

It’s always a fun debate, regardless. :wink:

7

Well, if God is the concept for which no greater being can be conceived, doesn’t it follow that no being is higher than God?

:wink:

8

I think you guys need to read the opening post again. :slight_smile: It seems to me that an argument for the position that atheism could be true is in no wise evidence for the existence of atheism or atheists.

Take Skeptic's stance, for example. He seems to be asserting that most of the time he's not an atheist, but that he somehow manifests or channels the atheistic spirit (if I understand him correctly) when is discussions with the 'other', who he refers to as 'theists'. That might be satisfactory for his faith, but someone from the outside would clearly see this as a psychological state and not referring to any objective truth.
9

Geez, all I can say is that maybe it’s the time of year for these moments of epiphany because, as it happens, I awoke yesterday morning and, for me as well, something seemed different, as though I’d dropped a heavy burden or no longer needed my glasses and could think more easily in a world that made more sense when I realized that we had no evidence whatsoever that there was no homosexual cure.

No homosexual cure was something I’d taken for granted, without thinking, when I was but a lass. But, after my awakening yesterday, I can think about it today and realize that my entire case for there being no cure for homosexuality rested on a few people whose authority I trusted. People who told me that they had ‘spoken’ with people who hadn’t been cured of their homosexuality. Even a couple who claimed they hadn’t been cured of homosexuality themselves.

But really, is that sufficient evidence? I mean sure, I’ve seen a couple people who have claimed to not have been cured of homosexuality on the internet, but there are people on the internet who claim to be vampires, witches, eskimos, and all sorts of stuff that doesn’t exist. It seems to me that this is just another one of those.

We have to accept in this modern age that there are many psychological reasons that would cause a person to have an uncured-homosexual experience. I myself have had very deep experiences that I used to describe as “being spoken to by an uncured homosexual”, and at the time, those were very moving encounters, provoking very real emotions. But I think once a person approaches their own belief system critically, they have to be open to other interpretations.

Most of all, I feel bad for those few people who claim to be uncured homosexuals themselves. I don’t have much to say to them- I mean, they ‘know in their heart’ that they are uncured homosexuals and it’s unlikely that any rational argument will change their minds about this, I realize that. Someone’s faith in their own uncured homosexuality is a deeply personal thing, and I wouldn’t want to take that away from somebody that wasn’t ready for that step. My hope, though, is that as belief in uncured homosexuality evolves, it might be a little more tolerant- I think there’s a lot the uncured homosexual community could learn from people who think they are Napoleon, or people who think their heads are made of glass, who as a whole have much better track-records for accepting (even to the point of communal living) with those who have non-traditional, non-rational concepts of the self.

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Wow, I don’t think I’ve ever had so many skeptics jump up to make my point for me so easily, then.

Are we in agreement, then, the lot of us, that there is no good reason to believe in the existence of atheists?

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I become an atheist when the question is posed to me, “Do you believe in god?”. When I reply “no”, I become an atheist.

Are my semantics off? It is simple linguistics.

12

Hmm, it depends on what cards you’re holding on the homosexual cure. I’ll lead with, say, a Bertrand Russell and a Freud and call you on a Phyllis Schlafly. :slight_smile:

13

I have no idea if there’s a cure for homosexuality or not, how could I?

14

Ah, but what do you believe, dear Uccisore?

15

Could you please stop trying to derail the conversation? You know full well this will turn into a debate on homosexuality if we persue those lines. If there’s some point you’re actually trying to make, make it on something less controversial. For the purposes of the argument, I have no opinion one way or the other on the curability of homosexuals.

16

I call myself an atheist. Are you saying I’m lying?

If you want to go this route, Ucci, couldn’t you also say there’s very little evidence for the existence of Africa?

17

Yes, but isn’t that true of anything?

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Interesting point, Ingenium. I apologize Uccisore, I did not realize this was so.

19

thezeus18

I dunno, Zeus, could we? What point is it that you suppose I’m trying to make?

As far as you lying, no, I don’t think you’re lying, just as people who say they’ve been abducted by aliens aren’t lying. You’re just confused.

Skeptic- I don’t know what you’re apologizing for, but you’re forgiven. Did I miss something?

20

It never ceases to amaze me what you think you know about my motives and how you like to inform me of it.

Call me crazy, but I selected that particular topic because of the link in YOUR signature line, dude.

That such a topic could ‘derail’ the thread (which is likely headed down that path by its very nature, forget the presumed volatility of the H-word.) never entered my mind as I was posting! Do you know why? Because I don’t find it to be controversial in the least. I don’t live in the wilds of the Maine forest, I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, for crying out loud.

You need to be more culturally sensitive!

Okay, okay, I’ll go visit somewhere else.

:::Ingenium skulks away::: ***

***NOTE: I’d say the above was written in humor, but then you’ll get mad at me for making light of your topic. So it’s completely serious and I’m really upset. Okay, not really upset, but at least upset enough that you will know I didn’t intend it to be funny and unserious. Even though I was maybe smiling a teensy, itsy bit as I wrote it. But that could’ve been gas.