Okay if you don't believe then explain to me please

[Iratate4k]

If God did not create life then where did life come from? Huh?!? Explain that to me, buddy!

[Krashash]

The Big Bang

[Myranthor]

From http://cmex-www.arc.nasa.gov/VikingCD/Puzzle/Prebiot.htm

The final, most important events leading to the origin of life are perhaps the least understood chapters of the story. Life began during the first billion years of an Earth history which is 4.5 billion years old. The illustration depicts an early Earth in which volcanoes, a gray, lifeless ocean, and a turbulent atmosphere dominated the landscape. Vigorous chemical activity is represented by the heavy clouds, which were fed by volcanoes and penetrated both by lightning discharges and solar radiation. The ocean received organic matter from the land and the atmosphere, as well as from infalling meteorites and comets. Here, substances such as water, carbon dioxide, methane, and hydrogen cyanide formed key molecules such as sugars, amino acids, and nucleotides. Such molecules are the building blocks of proteins and nucleic acids, compounds ubiquitous to all living organisms. A critical early triumph was the development of RNA and DNA molecules, which directed biological processes and preserved life’s “operation instructions” for future generations. RNA and DNA are depicted in the illustration, first as fragmets and then as fully assembled helices. These helices formed some of the living threads, as shown in the illustration, however, other threads derived from planetary processes such as ocean chemistry and volcanic activity. This evolving bundle of threads thus arose from a variety of sources, illustrating that the origin of life was triggered not only by special molecules such as RNA or DNA, but also by the chemical and physical properties of the Earth’s primitive environments.

On the same website are described the evolution of the cosmos, the early evolutoin of life, the evolution of advanced life, and gasp the future. And it is suported by the Nasa’s researches.

Have a good day

[LostGuy]

The universe was spontaneously self-created last tuesday in all its glory with illusions of a past (false memories and such). This makes no more or less sense then God poofing out of nowhere.

There is no proof for the idea that everything must come for somewhere. Or that all events have a cause. Thouse are delusions that cause such creation myths in both religion and science.

[Iratate4k]

okay we have the big bang…and we have origins of life that when it ends still reaches no definite conclusion to where life started. Even more so okay…HOW DID THE BIG BANG START? No Scholar in the world can answer that but then they can reach such a crucial conclusion that God is non-existent. WE WILL NEVER FIGURE OUT THIS UNIVERSE!

[thews]

@Iratate4k

okay we have the big bang…and we have origins of life that when it ends still reaches no definite conclusion to where life started. Even more so okay…HOW DID THE BIG BANG START? No Scholar in the world can answer that but then they can reach such a crucial conclusion that God is non-existent. WE WILL NEVER FIGURE OUT THIS UNIVERSE!

and where did god come from?

[homedawg]

Don’t be so pessimistic, and don’t be so dependent. You’re just asking us philosophers about these questions and taking refuge in Christianity (E Z way out). Cmon, the burden of proof is on everybody! Oh, and disregard what I said if all your other posts are philosophical and you really aren’t as dependent as you seem.

[The_Underground_Man]

most honest awnser anyone can give : “We don’t know”.

[Iratate4k]

I’m not a christian I just find it weird so by that I WANT answers!

[Rami]

For all we know, we could have already figured out how the universe began. Big bang, they say the initial ‘bang’ came from nowhere, since energy can neither be creatoed, nor destroyed. But still that doesnt stop us from asking such question as to where the bang came from? I think it is pretty pointless asking questions like that about ‘God’ or the ‘big bang’ because once you have answered that question, it only arises another one, as somebody mention; ‘what created god’ and so on and so forth.

I personally don’t believe in an all powerful, all knowing entity because it seems too magical, child like almost as i’ve said before. But i do understand that we have to reach some kind of conclusion, we can’t go around ‘constantly’ asking, ‘what happened before?’ because then we will never reach an answer cos we’ll just keep going rounc in circles, there has to be a point of creation, we have to accept it, whether it be ‘big bang’ version or ‘infinite’ universe, but with an inifite universe, obviously there would have been no creation point, but if there was no creation point. Then what did this ‘God’ do for an infiity amount of time before he created this Universe? Can you even seriously begin to imagine an all powerful entity.

I haven’t yet come to a conclusion that i understand but i do wonder, obviously something would have had to have been there before this Universe in order for a reaction such as the ‘big bang’ to even take place, where did the energy come from?

Well i think i believe that ‘time’ could have always been there, i refer to ‘time’ as being the thing that seperates one moment from the other, the ‘time’ that enables me to witness my surroundings, existence of some kind of nature you may call it.

Please reply

[Raptore]

from:
wired.com/wired/archive/10.1 … gence.html

Meanwhile, decades of inconclusive inquiry have left the science-has-all-the-answers script in tatters. As recently as the '70s, intellectuals assumed that hard science was on track to resolve the two Really Big Questions: why life exists and how the universe began. What’s more, both Really Big Answers were assumed to involve strictly deterministic forces. But things haven’t worked out that way. Instead, the more scientists have learned, the more mysterious the Really Big Questions have become.

Perhaps someday researchers will find wholly natural explanations for life and the cosmos. For the moment, though, discoveries about these two subjects are inspiring awe and wonder, and many scientists are reaching out to spiritual thinkers to help them comprehend what they’re learning. And as the era of biotechnology dawns, scientists realize they’re stepping into territory best navigated with the aid of philosophers and theologians. We are entering the greatest era of science-religion fusion since the Enlightenment last attempted to reconcile the two, three centuries ago.

…

In recent years, researchers have calculated that if a value called omega — the ratio between the average density of the universe and the density that would halt cosmic expansion — had not been within about one-quadrillionth of 1 percent of its actual value immediately after the big bang, the incipient universe would have collapsed back on itself or experienced runaway-relativity effects that would render the fabric of time-space weirdly distorted. Instead, the firmament is geometrically smooth — rather than distorted — in the argot of cosmology. If gravity were only slightly stronger, research shows, stars would flame so fiercely they would burn out in a single year; the universe would be a kingdom of cinders, devoid of life. If gravity were only slightly weaker, stars couldn’t form and the cosmos would be a thin, undifferentiated blur. Had the strong force that binds atomic nuclei been slightly weaker, all atoms would disperse into vapor.

interesting article regardless of what you believe

[hermes_the_thrice_gr (hermes the thrice great)]

@Raptore

from:
wired.com/wired/archive/10.1 … gence.html

Meanwhile, decades of inconclusive inquiry have left the science-has-all-the-answers script in tatters. As recently as the '70s, intellectuals assumed that hard science was on track to resolve the two Really Big Questions: why life exists and how the universe began. What’s more, both Really Big Answers were assumed to involve strictly deterministic forces. But things haven’t worked out that way. Instead, the more scientists have learned, the more mysterious the Really Big Questions have become.

Perhaps someday researchers will find wholly natural explanations for life and the cosmos. For the moment, though, discoveries about these two subjects are inspiring awe and wonder, and many scientists are reaching out to spiritual thinkers to help them comprehend what they’re learning. And as the era of biotechnology dawns, scientists realize they’re stepping into territory best navigated with the aid of philosophers and theologians. We are entering the greatest era of science-religion fusion since the Enlightenment last attempted to reconcile the two, three centuries ago.

…

In recent years, researchers have calculated that if a value called omega — the ratio between the average density of the universe and the density that would halt cosmic expansion — had not been within about one-quadrillionth of 1 percent of its actual value immediately after the big bang, the incipient universe would have collapsed back on itself or experienced runaway-relativity effects that would render the fabric of time-space weirdly distorted. Instead, the firmament is geometrically smooth — rather than distorted — in the argot of cosmology. If gravity were only slightly stronger, research shows, stars would flame so fiercely they would burn out in a single year; the universe would be a kingdom of cinders, devoid of life. If gravity were only slightly weaker, stars couldn’t form and the cosmos would be a thin, undifferentiated blur. Had the strong force that binds atomic nuclei been slightly weaker, all atoms would disperse into vapor.

interesting article regardless of what you believe

all of this is explained by the Will to Power

pitt.edu/~wbcurry/nietzsche/nwill.html

[Enigma]

@thews

and where did god come from?

That’s easy. The imagination and conceit of mankind.

[Slartibartfast]

“what started the big bang”.

who cares? there’s no point in asking, just let life keep some of it’s mystery for once. science would say something like random quantum fluctuations in the void or some such.

[Iratate4k]

I guess yeah cuz there isn’t going to be a definite answer…

[LostGuy]

Let’s say you have a dream.

In this dream, your in a subway station in New York, Fiona Apple is stading on a subway line. Upon seeing this George Washington, who is next to you on his horse begins to cry. A single tear rolls down his chin, hitting the floor of the subway station, and a Lotus bloosum grows forth. It opens revealing Budda who looks up at you and ask “Who’s the man now dog?”

Budda’s appearance is caused by the Lotus. The flower’s appearance is caused by the tear. The tear is caused by George Washington witnessing the death of Fiona Apple. The death of Fiona Apple was caused by a rapid collision with a subway car. Which in turn was cause by her standing on the subway line. But what caused here to stand on the line? Why is GW there on his horse?

Proposition:
All dreams have at least one uncaused event.

Now why would this be. Is there something strange in our psychology. No I think rather it comes from a more general pricepal.

Proposition:
Within any finite period of time, there will be one even that was not caused by any other within the same finite period of time.

So far from the old axiom of “Every event has a cause,” we see that within finite periods of time “There exist an event that does not have a cause.” The exact opposite of that ‘common sense’ prinicple. So an uncaused event, such as the big bang, (or much perferably spontaneous self-creation is to be expected.)

If this solution really won’t do. You can simply question the asummtion that we are working with a finite period of time. In such case you can have the old Big Bang-Big Crunch-Big Bang theory. Or the much simpler, although unsuported by current science thoery, that the earth has always been spinning around the sun in the same way. (Who needs entropy?)

All in all this whole line of questioning seems to be cause by that pesky evil called common sense. Ca va?

[The_Underground_Man]

Hmm… thats a very interesting idea Lostguy.

I was just reading Jung and he supposes that “dreams contain something like " unconscious metaphysics " ; they are expressions of undifferentiated psychic activity which may often contain the germs of conscious thought.” Furthermore that “we continue to dream in waking life beneath the threshold of consciousness”. Now you are trying to find first causes for dreams but perhaps in reality all dreams are your unconscious psychic activity scrambled up. Some dreams are very odd and obscure but it’s a rather accpeted notion that its a medium through which the unconscious unviels sensitive information or expresses repressed urges in the human being. Thus in my view if this is the case then we have a motive and cause for this obscure and odd yet useful unconscious activity.

[LostGuy]

I see what your saying. Allow me to refine my post.

My argument does not apply so much to the dream as to the narrative we tell ourselves about the dream. (I think current psychological theory says that dosen’t happen until morning.) But really the dream is unessisary. Any finite set of events will do. Feel free to replace the dream with a play, a short story, or probably best of all a bite-sized alternate universe of any construction you desire- so long as it is temporally finite.

I hoped the dream would be a good clear example, but any example is going to carry some problems with it. I don’t know, can you think of a better one?

[UnderstandTheArt]

Simple logical necessity exists whether we think about it or not.
Can anyone disprove this?

Anything we experience is a product of simple logical necessity.
Simple logic (though simple is a relative term) has the ability to create a “chaotic” environment (I quote chaotic because that is also a relative term). Life is a product of this logical necessity, and so is God. Can you prove the necessity of human life as we know it? Believing in God won’t do it…

Simple example: You have an argument that you believe is true. That argument could never be true unless it has a counterargument. That is simple logic that I don’t have numbers for. It is an understanding using the symbols of language. So what we extrapolate from that equation is the larger truth.

The Creator? Just like we have no numbers for some equations, we have no words for “God”. Stop thinking it is some dude with a waving hand. God is no entity existing in spite of nature.

Thanks.

[The_Underground_Man]

But what caused here to stand on the line? Why is GW there on his horse?

You caused it. Your imagination. The question to me is who’s imagination created this universe.

Lostguy are you also refering to spontaneous ideas or inspiration that may come to a poet or writer? The creative intelligence within human beings that seems to develop in our minds from seemingly uncaused sources or realms.