Labor became cheaper when computers were commonly used in business, because humans became more productive. An hour of human labor could produce more work. So yes, i am all for cheap labor. Labor also became cheaper in the construction industry when power tools came into use. It became more expensive with health and safety regulations, for instance. When truckdriversâ actual driving hours (without rest) were restricted, labor became more expensive. Thatâs pretty simple stuff.
When an illegal immigrant takes less than minimum wage to work a job, labor becomes less expensive - but this is a different case than the others. There is no law against computers. There are laws to restrict driving times. Laws. When illegals are paid less than minimum, a law is broken. We could argue about the law, but if itâs broken, then someone should be charged with a crime. When legal immigrants will take less than native born americans, itâs just the market.
Now, we can argue about immigration quotas if you like. But it is clear that the economy benefits from at least some immigration. The answer is a dispassionate look at immigration laws, from an economic point of view. It is not to disallow all immigration. Most of us are the product of immigration. What has happened is that this has become, for some, a purely moral argument. Thatâs just dumb. Moral views should charge our economic thoughts, become part of them. But a purely moral argument removes the issues from real world context. Morality has to be applied to something for it to have meaning.
What I am still seeking is the answer to this question - why are you poor? Thatâs not rhetorical - i assume there is a reason. And if you are not poor, then what are you bitching about?
So you are a proponent for technology putting the worker out of business, since an automated everything would make labor cheaper until obsolete? You donât see any problem with that end?
By the very nature of their illegal existence in this country, yes, laws have been broken.
The criminal illegal for being here illegally first and foremost. They need to be deportedâŚno, there needs to be border security so these other laws of less than minimum wage being violated wonât be an issue. No illegals, no issues of less than minimum wage being paid by companies far and wide that are on the books. There are always going to be unscrupulous people wheeling and dealing off the books, but that becomes an issue for the citizen who is being treated unfairly in his workplaceâŚthem laws and them police who serve legal residents and legal visitors.
What are moral views in your opinion? I mean, you arenât stating anything so your words have to be applied to something too for them to have any meaning.
Liberals should have the right, but also the duty to go home, back to Africa, because they like to be a âproduct of immigrationâ and are âAfricansâ, at least according to the âOut of Africaâ hypothesis. A new state as an old one should be founded there again. Liberals may call this state âLiberia 2.0â.
âSo you are a proponent for technology putting the worker out of business, since an automated everything would make labor cheaper until obsolete? You donât see any problem with that end?â
Well, you canât automate everything, so that is not a concern. But saying i want 50% of something does not imply that I want 100% of it. This is the politics of fear, similar to the idea that if we allow same-sex marriage, we must allow bestial marriages. Itâs a burlesque of rational thinking, nit rational thinking itself. The slippery slope argument is not a valid one. Ever.
âBy the very nature of their illegal existence in this country, yes, laws have been broken.â
Agreed.
âThe criminal illegal for being here illegally first and foremost. They need to be deportedâŚno, there needs to be border security so these other laws of less than minimum wage being violated wonât be an issue. No illegals, no issues of less than minimum wage being paid by companies far and wide that are on the books. There are always going to be unscrupulous people wheeling and dealing off the books, but that becomes an issue for the citizen who is being treated unfairly in his workplaceâŚthem laws and them police who serve legal residents and legal visitors.â
Not all illegals are criminals. Unlawful presence is, for instance, not subject to criminal penalties. That happens when people overstay their work visas. Not all wage theft is criminal either, at least in my state. Wage theft is an issue among workers that are not illegal, as well. So youâre not correct to say that eliminating illegals would eliminate that problem. (Iâm not sure if you back away from that or not.)
But one way to solve the problem is to make the illegals legal. Iâm guessing that this is not what you want. But it means that the criminality of illegal aliens is not the real issue. So letâs say they are all granted amnesty and citizenship. What is your argument against them in that case?
Industries overall only needing to employ one or two people out of every million would make workers obsolete which is still not the 100% you brought up, but a problem for the other 300,000,000+ citizens who need incomes nonetheless.
Are you an absurdist? Do you want 50% of reality to be 100% absurd? Do you believe that your replies are rational, from a person with integrity, who values their country?
Detainment and deportation are criminal penalties paid for by American citizens rather than the illegals. New laws and criminal rehabilitations need to be enacted to curtail illegal immigration to the USA once and for all. Other countries donât jack around with illegals like our country does to appease unscrupulous cheapskates who thrive off of othersâ desperation.
Iâve already covered the rampant aspect of this issue, but of course you were only paying 50% attention.
Off into absurdism you go without shame. Why would any country wish to mistreat their native populations by welcoming millions of unskilled, uneducated, non-English speaking, non-assimilating foreigners into their countries, foreigners who cost their native societies more than they contribute? What you propose is absurd and would further decimate what is left of this country. Why do you hate the United States 50% and hate the principles it was founded on 100%?
âIndustries overall only needing to employ one or two people out of every million would make workers obsolete which is still not the 100% you brought up, but a problem for the other 300,000,000+ citizens who need incomes nonetheless.â
Oh, myâŚ
You just donât get it, do you?
âDetainment and deportation are criminal penalties paid for by American citizens rather than the illegals. New laws and criminal rehabilitations need to be enacted to curtail illegal immigration to the USA once and for all. Other countries donât jack around with illegals like our country does to appease unscrupulous cheapskates who thrive off of othersâ desperation.â
I guess you donât read then international press much.
âOff into absurdism you go without shame. Why would any country wish to mistreat their native populations by welcoming millions of unskilled, uneducated, non-English speaking, non-assimilating foreigners into their countries, foreigners who cost their native societies more than they contribute? What you propose is absurd and would further decimate what is left of this country. Why do you hate the United States 50% and hate the principles it was founded on 100%?â
You are asking because you âdonât knowâ?
You are âcurious to know why an educated person, especially a white one, can be chronically poorâ?
Have you noticed that we live in the 21st century?
Do you live under a rock or on the dark side of the moon?
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There is no contradiction between being a poor and being a well educated white. Either you (a) are too dumb to know the facts (and correct premises), or you (b) use bogus arguments - rhetorically or not rhetorically (see: a).
You started being biased in 1958, as youâve stated in your signature. So, apparently, you have never noticed that your society has produced more and more poorness and that especially the universities of your society (and those of other Western societes too) have produced a poor precariat of well educated whites (think for example of all the unemployed becoming hippies, flower people, punks, taxi drivers etc.), an academic precarity.
If you are well educated, you arenât necessarily prevented against poorness. There are corresponding proverbs in many languages. So this is common sense. You should have known it. But you havenât.
And if it is vice versa, itâs just the market too. This market would be less free. So what? It would still be a market.
The âOut of Africaâ hypothesis again:
You canât automate everything, yes, but others can.
PC
Not all Fausts are Faustians.
So, you are saying that all allopathic medicine is an error. If youâve morbid bacteria in your mouth, you wonât go to the dentist in order to get rid of the morbid bacteria.
Common sense is much about common sensibilities and itâs true, society is splitting up into factions with different sensibilities.
This split is not so much between classes or income levels, itâs much more along racial lines.
This also fits with the remnants of liberal Whites who stand apart from other Whites while at the same time they are also the ones who have adopted an anti-White sentiment. They are those who have been inoculated the most by it.
As White identity is on the rise, the efforts will be increased to diffuse this identity through bringing up fake class concerns.
The reality is that while the battleground is the White working class today, itâs not exclusive to the working class. Itâs just that they are the canary in the coal mine and are the people who now respond to calls of White solidarity because they bear the brunt of the anti-Whiteness, the anti-Gentile-ness of the current elite.
Alf - âThere is no contradiction between being a poor and being a well educated white. Either you (a) are too dumb to know the facts (and correct premises), or you (b) use bogus arguments - rhetorically or not rhetorically (see: a).â
I am not claiming there is a contradiction. Thatâs just the wrong word. Absent mental illness, a physical disability or some behavior that both costs money and prevents the earning of money, itâs unusual for any american who has an education to be truly poor. This is more especially so for white people than for most minorities. Hippies, who are not very common, donât care about money, so shouldnât be complaining.
So far, you have offered no clues to my question. Although you are not who I asked.
Why are you, for example, âcurious to know why any educated person, especially a white one, can be chronically poorâ? Why do you not know this? If you really know that there isnât a contradiction between being a poor and being a well educated white, why are you asking all this and saying that you âdonât know, which is whyâ you are âaskingâ?
Most people donât have the social network to exploit as you have Mr., most donât live via wheelinâ and dealin". Thereâs a whole different mentality involved in a lifestyle built around that mindset that most people lack.
What some people lack in initiative, others lack in perseverance, most wing it without an airtight plan and for a few that pans out be it by âright place at the right timeâ or âyou scratch my back and Iâll scratch yours,â but letâs face it, most people donât have anything to really scratch someone elseâs back with when they are starting out other than verbal bullshit in the form of promisorial exchanges and platitudes, so itâs not so easy to get anywhere independently without boosts made by others along the way. Making it on their own doesnât happen for most unless their self-made operation costs virtually nothing, and requires no manpower. And did I mention that the employment opportunities outside the tech industry are a long ways from what they use to be?