Once More Into The Fray

Let’s take honesty to its limit. I know intuitively from pushing similar concepts to their limit that it will turn a full circle at best, fall apart at worst. But, let’s see that happen in action. I volunteer to start and failing any others I’ll volunteer to continue to be put to the test.

Honesty will best come through with questions, but I should start with something, though it is not easy to determine what. I’ll just mention the forefront notion on my mind:

I regretfully suspect that I’ve had a good sampling of the internet’s, and even world’s, most artistic/intelligent, in the last year, and that I could find no better, easily. I’m not completely dissatisfied, but I feel a lack for the most part. That’s why I scrape the sides of every can and recheck every card for hidden value. I say this with no malice; the kind that asks for negative feedback. Neither is it a complaint, as one would complain with the expectations of shaming those complained about to somehow alter who they are to suit himself.

It’s the 80-20 rule … 80% of everything is bullshit. Finding the valuable 20%, after you have rummaged through all the rest, is so exciting. :smiley:

It isn’t the fact that it is all just noise.
It is the question of what to do with the noise.

In keeping with my attempts at honesty, what I see here is a complete lack of interest in “putting me to the test”, which isn’t flattering. But, then I also don’t see any volunteers.

I’m not quite sure what you’re looking for here, Stuart. Sometimes understanding your words is like plowing through the thicket. But it’s probably just me. :blush:
If you are feeling a lack for the most part, then you obviously are mostly dissatisfied.
What is it do you think that would make you capable of being intellectually satisfied beyond compare?
Sometimes it does appear as though we have scratched the bottom of the barrel. Maybe we need to go looking for hidden value where we might least expect it.
Understand here, I may be misreading you. :laughing:

What kind of honesty are you looking for? Like sometimes life is beautiful and smooth sailing and then life pulls the rug out from under you and it appears to suck you into the abyss but yet you do not die. You just struggle in the quicksand, unable to move because moving will only pull you down more. …until you happen to see some branch human or otherwise to grab onto to help pull you out of that pit.
Have you learned everything that there is to learn in such a way that nothing could ever be intellectually satisfying to you? There have to be many things which you haven’t as yet touched up to move you and to satisfy you.

It’s not just you. It’s also me. Stuart, if you are looking for better philosophers, or artists, or whoever, they are out there on other forums and websites. Was that it? I’m not sure what you’re asking for. You may wonder why I come here. It’s simple…

Sometimes you want to go where everybody knows your name, and they’re always glad you came. You want to be where you can see, our troubles are all the same, you wanna be where everybody knows your name.

Hiya Von, is that from “Cheers” ? :smiley:

:laughing: I don’t think that Stuart was looking to be serenaded, flowing like a river.
And very often I prefer to go where no one knows my name or knows me. I like to hide among the shadows away from the maddening crowd and it certainly is maddening! Do you see my avatar? If there were even only one other person there, I would go to the farthest side in order not to be seen.
But yes, obviously, there are times when one wants to go where everybody knows your name…like ilp. :evilfun:

Anyway, I like to go plowing through the thicket. More challenging and interesting. Who wants the beaten path?

Oh shit, damnit. How embarrassing.

Ah, that is so sweet. You thought you were being original there? :laughing:

I think you have to be careful if you plan on pushing yourself intellectually in barren places; not that I am saying that you should not seek out challenges to overcome. But a human mind has its limits. I see people go insane because they keep forcing themselves (analyzing) and end up caught up fighting with their own reflections. That’s how I see some of the people who get into conspiracy theories (ufos, aliens, mystical explanations of things, etc. And to some degree also, the modern avant guard art movements). Sometimes, there is nothing else left to really look at and that’s when you have to be careful because what happens then is likely to be of your own doing (projecting). And that is another challenge to overcome, but you must actually ‘see’ it first, and a lot of people don’t.

Von is capable of irony. I like him sometimes.

Pandora - are you saying men should in general refrain from reflecting on non obvious (non phallic) matters, or that you perceive a specific threat for Stuart?

Stuart: like all tests, well, the best way I can describe it is, in the good old 60’s it was literally the acid test. I passed, but not without consequences. One of these, from then on, I had to become completely honest with myself. Then I knew, maybe, just maybe, I can begin to be honest with others. For total intellectual integrity, I had to dig deep, and go to the source. And that place, was dangerous terrain, full of jagged edges, roundabout ways, inadvertent traps, and utter loneliness.
And this was a time when a friend could be hoped to be gotten the old traditional way of blood brotherhood, when one could expect nothing less then going with you to the limit, and if there was a limit, then beyond.

I do not want to make a cynical statement on the climate of the times, suffice it to say, I am always on the lookout for total honesty, toward those whom I think passed this litmus barrier.

Well, if you are not completly satisfied, then there is better than what the internet’s and world’s best is out-there. Because there should be no need to scrape the sides of every can in search of hidden value. But that’s the nature of the beast, as an essentially isolated experience, internet-interaction cannot provide a whole-experience. Thus, it is dissatisfactory.

I don’t think men should become obsessed with complex abstract ideas, or see them as the only way to seek answers. I don’t think that second-hand scholarly knowledge is the best way to proceed, because the risk, and hence the potential for change is very minimal (for most people). You engage and retreat (and contemplate) at your convenience, nothing is forced on you, and you are not forced into anything, so there is no real motivation, or necessity for change. It’s really more or less entertainment. Real challenges and changes (growth or deterioration) come when you are faced with real life (however seemingly mundane or ‘phallic’ it may appear), because that is also when you get to face yourself (which of course comes with its own dangers). Perhaps the feeling of lack stuart is referring to is because what he obtained so far is not his own. Even if you hold the best of the best in the palm of your hands, if you cannot claim it, it may leave you with a sense of lacking.
How does stuart imagine himself having eliminated this sense of lack, and feeling full-filled?

It seems like you are seeking betters - and it seems like this means better at areas of your interest, say, philosophy. Just laying out my assumptions to put my question in context.

For the sake of argument, let’s say you had a motive that led you not to find what you were seeking.

  1. what would that motive (or those motives be) and
  2. what are some of the steps you could take to find people who are superior at least in certain areas and discuss X - the area you wanted to find betters in?
  3. Now that you have written out those steps, is there anything about them that leads to insight about your motivations, potential avoidance, personality, etc, relevent to this topic?

I know I’m often obscure, but if I’m clear then I’m verbose, so I can’t win unless I wish to say something that’s already been said many, many times before.

I’m interested in taking honesty to its limits; for example the WTP. The WTP is a good way of encompassing all of human relations, as good as any anyway, and so when we speak of the WTP, we are also exercising it, we are caught up in the interpersonal struggle for power in our very conversation. But, to mention that, the elephant in the room, does not stop it. The struggle will continue even as we discuss how the struggle is continuing.

I’ll always feel perpetual dissatisfaction, perhaps more than anyone; through satisfaction, I only find dissatisfaction anew. My present dissatisfaction happens to be more centered around finding people to converse with than the many others waiting in queue. If the best were filtered out, and I don’t mean the “best” as in the basely recognized, and were willing to take me as a student, I would be able to let that dissatisfaction move to the other omnipresent dissatisfactions.

No, that may be good advice, where I least expect it would be in the few astronomically large, asininely named public forums the internet has to offer. Perhaps I will find some rare minds floundering and refer them here.

There are, but axiomatically, they aren’t advertised. The base is what is advertised, the valuable is found through mind-numbingly following the vaguest leads or through the kaleidoscope of word of mouth; when people I respect refer me to other people (or ideas) they respect and considers better than themselves and those others refer me in kind to others they respect and consider better than themselves, I slowly find my way to the best.

I would not only die for such a friend, I would risk death to find one.

Welcome CD, thank you for your response. I definitely prefer offline communication; in person, or at least through the phone.

Hi, Pandora, I hope that my response to Arcturus addressed most of your comments and questions.

I’ve spent years of self-reflection, devoid of almost any people, let alone people who would understand me. I may have to return to that state soon, but one doesn’t jump into the fire willingly. And even then I will have to try leave before I’m done, but by then, shifted even more on the fifth dimensional axis, I may not even be recognizable, let alone of interest.