Pedophilia and the moral objective

[Gaiaguerrilla]

First off, a sort of disclaimer.

I’ve had in the past seen irate reaction (I argue over-reaction) to previous posts, but that’s not the topic at hand.

Dear moderator: If you find this inappropriate, please do move it to the sandbox or something of the like, and you can certainly leave a post to say so. No explanation necessary.

Dear reader: Please do not derail the thread by arguing the merits of the discussion. If you think it’s inappropriate, please encourage a moderator to do as mentioned above and I’m sure we can settle for moving the thread. If someone encourages that it should be removed (not just censored, but removed) - I would argue that this sentiment is from an emotional reaction caused by personal trauma - not a rational response caused by healthy skepticism.

So, on with it.

Pedophilia is a serious concern because there is neurological and evolutionary reason to believe that it is not simply a perversion produced by unnatural experience, but that it is a naturally occurring phenomena, traceable genetically. (nature more than nurture).

This is not a debate about whether pedophilia is wrong. It’s not a difficult argument to make that violent rape, and child abuse, are both in some laws equivalent to murder, if not more heinous. So the two put together are obviously: wrong and punishable

Please understand this correctly. This post is not about asking whether pedophilia is wrong, because, basically, pedophilia is wrong. This post is a question more complex.

Arguing the pedophile
Consider the pedophiles that don’t believe in violence, but they attribute pedophilia to that of homosexuality, an “orientation” that is just not yet appropriately accepted. Still, this is not a difficult argument to say they are also quite wrong and using fallacy to make their claims. Those of us whom do not suffer from the mental health issue might not need to have a counter-argument - but the pedophile does. The common counter-argument is that children are prepubescent, ie too young for sex because they can’t procreate. The pedophile counter-counter-argument would say “homosexuals don’t procreate by their sexual acts. Why are thy not banned.” And so the deeper argument goes something like this . . .

The same way you would not expect a 5 year old to sign a contract to devote their life in a basement, you would not expect a child to “agree” to the emotional turmoil (and ultimately trauma) that a sexual relationship involves. It is hence why we call it “the age of consent.” Because any serious decision which could take one away from an otherwise fairly natural positive life, requires the developed mind for the person to consent to the exception on their own rational basis. An adult, for example, could decide to join the military where they risk death for a purpose on mind. A legal guardian can’t enlist their child into the military. Another example would be a skydive from a plain with all sorts of safety precautions put into place (a parachute, an experienced team surveying alongside the diver) - this is still not the kind of decision a legal guardian should be making as an appropriate experience for the child.

So why are we getting into this? Fellows, from a counselling perspective, this problem is not rare. It is an epidemic with a stranglehold on our society. One of my mentors has argued along these lines:

“It used to be that no one wanted to talk about sexual abuse. Finally we got over our irrational paranoia that discussing it would somehow cause it to happen more, we began discussing it, and could finally start solving the problem. Now, the same problem is faced with the sex offenders themselves. We can get over the idea that discussing their arguments and their existence would somehow cause the problem to get worse, and finally face their issues so that the problem is solved – more!”

So here is the crux of my post–

I understand the moral objective “kill the rapist” / “kill the pedophile” – it is not complicated to understand that the goal is to eliminate the problem. And of course, it’s understandable to say that the person frequently exhibiting the problem behavior is the source of the problem that arises from their abuse.

Well here is the other facet to the problem–

There are perhaps millions of pedophiles as a natural phenomenon. Not all of them are committing sexual abuse. Many of them come forward in very closed confidential counselling sessions. Some of them come forward in more open venues - where they have not offended but they do have the desires. And many of those coming forward about their problems receive the reaction as we see above . . . “kill the pedophile.”

I am not advocating that we make big bouquets of flowers and candies dispensed from the “pedophile loving center” where we pamper them as needy children. What I am advocating is the idea that justice has to be seen in a more complex way than simple incarceration or chemical castration.

When someone comes to a counselor and confesses to premeditating murder, and willing to take actions to prevent them from doing so, these people are not punished for attempted murder. They are treated. The same is what must happen for those high risk offenders that are not offending. Simple examples are pamphlets or brochures along the lines “am I a pedophile? Do I need to talk to someone” - mainly, programs targeting young males. We enforce that the legal consequence for such an act is severe, but that the consequence for coming forward before such an act is in fact rewardable. People collect disability pensions for all sorts of mental health issues. This is one of them.

Summary
What do we do about pedophiles that are not offending, but are willing to admit to their desires? Obviously, we don’t say “because you confess you get 5 lashings instead of 10.” And obviously we don’t say “here, have a free car for being a pedophile.” But there is a golden mean between the two. What is it?

[Kriswest]

In the rare case that someone can identify such in themselves and they reach out for help, they should be helped. Society should heal and protect. Prisons at one point in the US were supposed to rehabilitate not just imprison. Now, well I see they create more mental problems.

[Gaiaguerrilla]

Kriswest, I can always trust you to answer my posts. I should start writing them with “what do you think about this one, Kris?”

[Kriswest]

Thanks but, it is due to you, you always present interesting ideas

[Arcturus_Descending]

There are never any real failsafe answers here. But

Consider the pedophiles that don’t believe in violence

I would respond to the pedophile who does not believe in so-called violence by saying that pedophilia IS a violent act. Violence does not have to be this harsh, physical whirlwind that comes at one. Any sexual act, whether touching, intercourse, whatever, IS, in my book, violence committed to/against that child. It is violence to the mind, to the spirit, to the heart, to the body of that child. A child has no real understanding of what is going on, albeit or if there are any feelings of pleasure, that there is nothing that they themselves have done to deserve this attack on them or to bring it on themselves. Guilt and remorse is violent in nature, shame is violent, even repression and suppression of those memories (if the mind can be that merciful) can be/is still violent, having to keep a secret for fear that people finding out, will either hate or reject them does violence to the human spirit of the child.

What do we do about pedophiles that are not offending, but are willing to admit to their desires? Obviously, we don’t say “because you confess you get 5 lashings instead of 10.” And obviously we don’t say “here, have a free car for being a pedophile.” But there is a golden mean between the two. What is it?

The first thing perhaps to do is to raise awareness within them that what they are doing or DID is indeed a violent act against children, and both unnatural and unloving, along with being illegal. Perhaps the second would be to show them, by videos the results of their pedophilia - how children who were sexually abused grew up, I don’t know the percentage, and sexually abused others. Perhaps they are quite aware of that if they were sexually abused. And equally important would be watching and listening to the testaments of adults who were sexually abused as children, both boys and girls, of just how their lives turned out, as a result of that, whether it be sex addiction, prostitution, drugs, depression, a lack of total trust in self or others, et cetera; kind of like I’ve always felt that those who drive drunk and continue to drive drunk ought to do thousands of hours of community service working with people who have become incapacitated or paralyzed as a result of others’ drunk driving…if they haven’t been sent to prison…but along with that…thousands of hours of awareness.

Like any other mental illness or disorder, if pedophilia can be called that, part of the key obviously is in self-awareness and discovering the things which trigger those feelings and urges and steering clear of them and doing what it takes to learn to transcend their temptation.

Awareness and self-awareness are the most important things. I am not saying that the pedophile ought to be hunted down and killed but must be kept strong tabs on, especially for the sake of the children and also for the sake of the pedophile, which is for the sake of the child. Awareness would also start with the pedophile “seeing” and "understanding that there is a great difference between pedophilia and homosexuality. True, some gays may be pedophiles but basically homosexuality is between two consenting adults and as long as both are honest with each other, they alone are responsible for their own hurt and harm which comes to them. That is NOT the case with the children in the hands of the pedophile. Understood or misunderstood, depending on how one of them thinks of their self - they are still predators who need to satisfy their lust and power and control over people (children) who have no way to protect themselves from them.

[Arcturus_Descending]

but that the consequence for coming forward before such an act is in fact rewardable. People collect disability pensions for all sorts of mental health issues. This is one of them.

As a Mom, I may be being a bit emotional here (as per your remark in the OP) but what kind of reward are you thinking of? Money? Or are you speaking of some kind of a fund being set up so that one does not have to pay for counseling? Does one have to pay for AA meetings or for GA meetings? What about the reward of knowing that you may be saving the life and mental health of a child - and your own as well - or is that not good enough?!!!