Personal Identity and Immortality in Spinoza

The question arises of the immortality of the soul/mind in Spinoza’s writing, and with it the definition of personal identity. Spinoza speaks of the existent essence of non-existent modes, a position which Deleuze sums as such:

“A mode’s essence is not a logical possibility, nor a mathematical structure, nor a metaphysical entity, but a physical reality, a res physica. Spinoza means that the essence, qua essence, as an existence. A modal essence has an existence distinct from that of the corresponding mode.” Expression in Philosophy (192)

Despite Deleuze’s assurance that this reality is not mathematical, Spinoza does take recourse to mathematical analogy to make clear his meaning, for instance (cited below), the existence of essence of a infinity of equal rectangles within the essence of a circle (Theorem 35, Euclid) which exist even if only one or even none exist modally. So the essence of a mind is said to exist within the mind of God, eternally, despite its own limited duration. What this does is give the human mind a kind of eternity, an existence outside of the brief flicker of expression, but what this also does is place that eternal existence in relation to all other essences, of all other things, animate and inanimate, which are also produced by God/Nature. The human mind is eternal in essence as all other things are eternal in essence. But further, (as is shown in the note to EIV39), identity itself, our preservation of ourselves as ourselves in duration, is also not guaranteed, and is in fact likely an illusion of perspective. Just as his Spanish poet has died to himself, despite the continuity of his body, unable to recognize even his own writings, we too would only be an infinite series of eternal essences - slight modifications of a rectangle within its circle - defined only by our momentary consonance of parts – both ideational and extended. It is not so much that Spinoza has awarded undue eternity to the human mind, but rather has radically undermined the basis upon which the human mind privileges itself to be unique among things in this world, given eternal life, but a life fused with all other things, capable as alien to its own “past” as akin to another thing. I list below relevant passages and definitions to this thinking.

EV29– The human mind cannot be absolutely destroyed with the body, but there remains of it something which is eternal.

(Proof) There is necessarily in God a concept or idea which expresses the essence of the human body, which, therefore is necessarily something appertaining to the essence of the human mind. But we have not assigned to the human mind any duration, definable by time, except insofar as it expresses the actual existence of the body, which is explained through duration, and may be defined by time – that is we do not assign to it duration, except while the body endures. Yet there is something, notwithstanding, which is conceived by a certain eternal necessity through the very essence of God; this something, which appertains to the essence of the mind, will necessarily be eternal.

EIV39note - …But here it should be noted that I understand the Body to die when its parts are so disposed that they acquire a different ratio of motion and rest to one another. For I dare not deny that – even though the circulation of the blood is maintained, as well as the other [signs] on account of which the Body is thought to be alive – the human Body can nevertheless be changed into another nature completely different from its own. For no reason forces me to think that the Body does not die unless it is changed into a corpse. And, indeed, experience seems to urge the opposite conclusion. Sometimes a man undergoes such changes that I should hardly believe that he was the same man. For example, I have heard tell of a Spanish poet who was struck by an illness; though he recovered, he remained so oblivious to his past life that he did not believe the tales and tragedies he had written were his own. He might have been taken for a grown-up infant had he also forgotten his native tongue.

EIp8 – [i]By eternity, I mean existence itself, insofar as it is conceived necessarily to follow solely from the definition of that which is eternal. /i – Existence of this kind is conceived as an eternal truth, like the essence of a thing, and, therefore, cannot be explained by means of continuance or time, though continuance may be conceived without a beginning or end.

EIp24– The essence of things produced by God does not involve existence. (Corollary)… God must be the sole cause, inasmuch as to him alone existence appertain.

EIp25 – God is the efficient cause not only of the existence of things, but also of their essence.

EIIp8 - The ideas of particular things, or of modes, that do not exist, must be comprehended in the infinite idea of God, in the same way as the formal essences of particular things or modes are contained in the attributes of God. Note — If anyone desires an example to throw more light on this question, I shall, I fear, not be able to give him any, which adequately explains the thing of which I here speak, inasmuch as it is unique; however, I will endeavour to illustrate it as far as possible. The nature of a circle is such that if any number of straight lines intersect within it, the rectangles formed by their segments will be equal to one another; thus, infinite equal rectangles are contained in a circle. Yet none of these rectangles can be said to exist, except in so far as the circle exists; nor can the idea of any of these rectangles be said to exist, except in so far as they are comprehended in the idea of the circle. Let us grant that, from this infinite number of rectangles, two only exist. The ideas of these two not only exist, in so far as they are contained in the idea of the circle, but also as they involve the existence of those rectangles; wherefore they are distinguished from the remaining ideas of the remaining rectangles.

Dunamis

I doubt I’m AS much an alien to my past versions than I am to other things. There must be a hierarchy of resemblances or relations. If I run over Guido with my tractor and the authorities take a year to catch up with the New-Mode version of me, they’d sooner arrest me than Xanderman’s ham radio or your table saw. The reasons are pragmatic. Maybe the reasons God (might have) made essence (sometimes) withstand mode are for pragmatic reasons of His own. It seems to be going on some of the time. I can smell it.

As far as throwing around words like eternal, Spinoza’s blurb doesn’t amount to much. It’s the kind of eternity that says “my place in history will be sealed forever, nothing can change that…” but having once writ doesn’t add any of the comfort or importance to the word “eternity,” as some other philosophies do. Rather, it’s like saying “your dead mother will live forever…” (the kid gets really excited, and then the pasteur completes his sentence…) “…in the MEMORIES of those who loved her.” (The kid looks around and sees grownups pretending this statement is profound and comforting – but it is neither, especially to the child. Better to say: she is dead and we are sad.) Of course Spinoza’s not in the business of comforting us, thank God, but this idea, this word choice of “eternal,” seems hollow to me, and overly poetic compared to what he really means, which is neither profound nor comforting. I’m referring to this hamfisted contention: “The human mind cannot be absolutely destroyed with the body, but there remains of it something which is eternal.” I don’t care what he says after that…that’s just bad writing. Maybe blame the times.

A circle is conveniently unchanging and so it seals the “eternal” into the potential or actual rectangles. Perhaps the universe, unlike the circle, continually changes properties in such a way that renders the “rectangles” gone, for lack of a better word. A non-existent mode of something in various kinds of non-causal models would indeed render the poor thing gone. Whatever the whole of Spinoza’s universe is, or any universe, it’s probably pretty weird to our thinking…regardless of what I think I smell. Who knows how friendly the big circle is to it’s rectangles, or to its own circle? Let me guess. You do.
:wink:

G-man!,

I doubt I’m AS much an alien to my past versions than I am to other things.

Perhaps because you have only a partial understanding of what you are. I posed the possibility. The Spanish poet turned mental invalid, very well may have more in common with a mentally retarded child of 7 than the man who wrote so many verses.

There must be a hierarchy of resemblances or relations.

There is no necessity to the particular hierarchies that we ascribe to being objectively true. We make an order of resemblances and/or relations from the perspective of the culturally determined understandings of “what we are”, but when one understands more fully that we are fundamentally assemblages of other bodies, and that we too enter into assemblages with bodies considered “exterior” to us, and thus create new wholes, new bodies and essences, the definitional “me” is a co-incidence of a particular dimension of power, the real world of effects of seeing and acting as if we are such. But the capacity of us to envision otherwise, to see beyond the structuring “hierarchies” of a particular ideology, allows really a greater conception of what one is, for instance beyond the cult of the individual and its “personality” indicative of the history of Western Culture.

If I run over Guido with my tractor and the authorities take a year to catch up with the New-Mode version of me, they’d sooner arrest me than Xanderman’s ham radio or your table saw.

Because it socially convenient to retain continuity of identity does not make it ontologically so. When understanding the supervention of ideological constructs upon a material real, we gain access to a kind of freedom we might not otherwise have.

The reasons are pragmatic.

This is the defense that attempts to undermine all philosophical investigation…“It works, why you messin’ with it?” But what is more pragmatic is to understand the power relations that construct reality – the reality as it seems to work – so as to have greater pragmatic grasp upon possibility and situation. In many ways Spinoza is a pragmatist.

Maybe the reasons God (might have) made essence (sometimes) withstand mode are for pragmatic reasons of His own.

There only are pragmatic reasons, that is to say that all knowing is the expression of power with material results.

Dunamis

Still leaving me flat. In fact, we went from my mind being eternal to me not even being me. I’m just an appendage…whoops, now I’m a different appendage. That’s a way of looking at it. Identity is another way. The perspective you seem to be championing seems broader or more encompassing at first glance…but there’s no evidence of that. The homunculum in your brain can play musical chairs for the rest of the party. I’ll be by the punch bowl if you need me. (I hesitate, has it been spiked with LSD? Has Dunamis gotten to it first? Hmmm…)

G.,

“we went from my mind being eternal to me not even being me.”

I’m glad I at least successfully communicated the core of this point. :slight_smile:

Dunamis

The core of the confusion anyway. The distance between “eternal” and “never existed” is quite big, even for you. I have a hard tiume seeing how something that never existed can be eternal.

G.,

“The distance between “eternal” and “never existed” is quite big, even for you.”

Who said “never existed”? Just exists beyond the parameters as you so conceive.

Dunamis

Hi Dunamis

These ideas are similar in ways to my partial understanding of what I believe is meant by re-birth in Christianity.

The essence God is “one”. Yet since God is beyond time and space, God is simultaneously the three forces of this unity. The forces divide from one into three as God descends into time and into the formation of the levels of creation reblending as “one” but at a more involved level of creation or “involution”… Each level of creation is a different"quality" of “circle” within a larger circle as you’ve noted it capable of all the intersections proper for its level.

This structure leaves open the possibility that the essence of man did not originate with God the father but instead further down into creation at the level of the “son”

So while man exists in eternity, eternity itself is relative in relation to what initiates eternity. If the eternity of amoeba is a mode at the cosmological level of the earth, its life force or “essence” which manifests as individual amoebas initiated higher say at the level of the son. Eternity for the son is not the same as for the father since it exists within the father both as an essence and as a mode within essence.

Studying cosmology and its introduction of scale and relativity into universal existence has better allowed me to consider the possibility that man’s being is also relative. So while it a person’s life may exist as inconsequential as demonstrated by the Spanish poet, it may also be capable of a conscious existence not limited by memory of mechanical events but instead be the result of conscious affirmation of the events of the earth’s cosmology itself or what we call “cause and effect”. It is through consciousness and man’ change in being that I believe meaning and purpose are revealed and real identity is created.

Consciousness is what allows man to transcend nature. The hard part seems to be in acquiring it since we are under the misconception that we already have it.

Dunamis…

An existence I hadn’t conceived of? You mean the interconnectedness of all things and lack of any actually identity in the conventional sense? If so, saying this is eternal is sort of redundant…because “all things” would be by definition eternal.

When this started, I thought you meant that there’s a way to see our minds as being eternal. but that is not at all the contention. You’re first saying our minds don’t exist in the way we think they do (fine) and then saying the way they really are is eternal. But if the way they really are doesn’t resemble they way I think my mind is, I think calling it a “mind” at all is asking for trouble. Secondly, there IS something of a mind that exists the way I mistakenly think it does…it’s existence precedes its essence. And this mind, (the only one I care about, unless you convince me I shouldn’t) is not eternal in any way that matters. In fact, it’s lack of being eternal is about as close a definition of mind that I can conceive of.