Philosopher Kings? Ha!

I was browsing through all these posts and pondering about all the people and minds behind these thoughts when I thought…wouldn’t the world be a bloody awful place if philosopher/thinker type people ran things?
Lets say we do the whole philosopher kings thing. First we’ve got to get a little Spartan. So all the philosopher people get together and get naked (ahhh). Can you imagine every good philosopher in the world in one place…naked and doing strenuous excercise. That’s enough to end the world there!!
OK, lets stop there. Let’s just say that philosophers should rule every society (and lets not go into how they rule, just say, as equitable for all members of that society as possible) I think it’d be a mess.
[visual example] Got your marxists beating on the capitalists who are trying to go some help from the coservatives, who are conserving their power because Peter Singer and a bunch of really pissed animals just starting eating them.
Then out of nowhere comes this guy who looks like superman and he’s all about will-to-power, who is prompty deconstructed from the back by an aging english professor who is in turn on the receiving end of some feminist ninja moves etc etc etc.

so for now, for just this moment, it might be better that a bunch of fat upper class men run everything. That way it's totally fair (tee hee). 

thoughts?

id agree with you but!!! i dont think its fair i dont think they are fat and they are by far not upper class. politicians are always known for being sneaky dirtbags. i think that most of them probably see themselves as philosophers and like any human are trying to make the world a better place by attempting to make everything the way they want it. the way i see it no one is really any more fit to control people than anyone else. mostly because whats “right” is what they think is right so it would just never work out. thats why we have democracy. the slowly collapsing political system that sounds ever so great but is failing. thats when you get your other jack ass philosophers who want to be politicians to form another type of government for people that they believe are stupid. it will really never work no matter what we do. thats right it will not work. whats it? i do not know anymore

thank you for the reminder. Yes, I guess I tend to always jump to that assumption from a little too much Marx. Still think there’s a suspicous link between big money (business) and who ends up getting elected politically. As far as class is concerned…well, everyone has their definitions, but i’d put most politicians up there…but this discussion is more suited to the politics section. for now…

I don’t think that any system ‘works’ and I don’t see that as a bad thing. To be honest we just have to try to make the best of what we’ve got, of what we are. We need philosophers to have some sort of power and of course their is a cross-over between politican and philosopher. To say that they’re just fat cats is inaccurate although it does depend on the country. The American form of political power seems much more ‘buyable’ than the British one for example. Wealth does bring power but I feel that ultimately intelligence brings power. Power should not be scorned upon either. It is a tool that can be used positively or negatively. In some ways I believe that those who are more intelligent and who love thinking deserve more power because they will use it better.

It could be worse. The world could be run by Burger Kings.

But in all seriousness, I have just finished reading Starship Troopers (again) and i am amazed at close i am to agreeing with the system of government presented in the book. It basically is identical to our wesern democracy but with one crucial difference. You cannot vote or enter plitics until you have completed a term of military service. The reasoning for this is simple, by serving in the military, you have proved your readiness to act unselfishly, to sacrifice yourself for the greater good of the many. And therefore, when either voting or making policy, you will act less for yourself and more for all humankind. At first, I was dead against it, being a liberal so-and-so, but the more i think about it, the more i reckon it can’t possibly end up worse than what we have now. maybe it is time for a radical change, maybe not exactly as above, but possibly rtestricting certain freedoms can improve our lives. But then again I’m going to go to bed, wake up and completely change my political views.

heh yea i agree there should be better restrictions on sertain things. but i also think it should be open to more people. i was never one for age limits on things like driving and others. theres a driving test shouldnt that be enough? the elderly are a bigger potential problem than kids but thats just my opinion. could be my age talking

Hmmm, yes, but to be in an army u may have to agree with what is going on. What about all the anti war protesters in America and the Draft dodgers? They thought the war was a wrong thing, you would deny them a voice? In essence what you’re describing is a military dictatorship, and not only that, open to huge abuse. Imagine, the government in power at the time leaning on the army to send all potential voters for the opposition parties to the front line while keeping all their supporters in cushy office jobs.

And sorry, but I’d prefer to give votes to people with brains, not grunts with guns. Only people who have attended university should get a vote, how about that??

And what about our Army? Full of double-barrelled names who got their positions cause they happened to be born into a certain family? I that the way you want to go?

All very good points Matt, but to clarify, i was just giving the views espoused in the novel (not the bastardised film version), which are not neccessarily my own (yet)

I should have been more specific, it is not necessarily the army you must serve in, it is possible to apply for a logistical job, or even just be a glorified janitor. The army proper is ferryed around in husge spaceships, and of course to run a ship requires many “cushy office jobs” BUT, when it is time for combat, everyone fights, from grunt to chaplain to cook to general. Therefore it is impossible to not fight if you apply for the army, unless you are disabled, in which case you can have just a desk job or retire and vote, or you quit, in which case you are let go without punishment, but you never get the franchise.

It is certainly not a military dictatorship, as you cannot vote while in the military, only once you have completed your term and have been discharged, in all other ways it is a democracy. Non-citizens have all the rights and privileges of citizens, but they cannot vote or enter politics.

And as for officers just being toffs with training, no-one can become an officer until they have served from private to sergeant, and are recommended for Officer Training by their superiors, which is always on the basis of ability.

I do not completely agree with the idea that philosophers of any kind should rule. Don’t you see their beauty lies in doing exactly what they do now; they observe, and in what they write they show the flaws, beauties, and the evil’s of a society. That is thier beauty, but that in itself lies in the fact that they are usually on the “outside” of a society, struggling to find meaning in the confusion that surrounds them.
But if we were to take Philosophers out of their “niche”, so to speak, in life they would suddenly cease to Be and cease to Do the things which make them philosophers in the first place.
All men (and women) are weakened by power, and power in the wrong hands–however intelligent they may be–may bring awful consequences. This kind of power should be given to the simple minded, those who will not think abstractly about living, breathing people. Because for all that philosophers can and have done for society, they also can be cold, calculating, and can take abstractly what should never be taken abstractly when it comes to making real, flesh and blood decisions.
I honestly feel that philosophers rule in there own right by being where they are now. By being on the outside, the fringes of political, religious, and econimic thinking, they wield a different kind of power–one that lasts through history to make greater strides toward the future.
Feel free to disagree, it’s just an opinion.

I tend to agree andreana. It seems that philosophers have enough of an impact on society to not even need to be officially ‘in power’. Their ideas do tend to shape a lot of things…do you think that being a philosopher is an acceptable profession in this society?

What if Philosophers ran civilization? to me it would be nearly like Russian and early communism. Its great on paper, but the follow through and the hard work to make an idea work never works. Plus, what of war, Philosophers would cause more than they would end. No two philosophers ever agree completely. Also philosophers are always too egotistical to admit we are wrong. Thus Philosophers I doubt could not run a civilization

(sorry for jumping in I decided to avoid everybody else’s post and just respond with my thoughts.)

precisely BLU, pre-cisely…

Also philosophers are always too egotistical to admit we are wrong

Heeey! That hurts :cry:

HVD, I would appologze, but that would admit I was wrong about being eotistical about beig wrong, and well im just to egotistical to admit im wrong. so hip hip cherio walk it of mate. heh :stuck_out_tongue:

Sorry for the late reply, thinkykid–I work too much.
To answer your question, I know that after what I said about philosophers it might seem that I do not agree with someone choosing philosophy as a profession. But my answer is not an emphatic yes or no. I guess I would dare to say that one does not “choose” to be a philosopher–one has, in most cases, that mindset thrust upon him or her–from what sourse, who can say?
I think that philosophy is a good profession to choose, but it’s not one to be taken lightly–that is, if one is to be taken with any grain of respect. One can call himself a “philosopher” and rant and rave nonsense, but it is wisdom, or the search for wisdom, that truly seperates the “great” thinkers from the raving lunatics. But then again I’m sure there are examples of raving lunitics who, historians discover, were brilliant minded intellectuals–worthy philosophers. What is your opinion?

I think everyone should have atleast some idea of philosophy. Not as a profession but just as background knowledge. It would make me feel better when talking to people. Rather than getting a blank stare as a response I’d like a “wow…” or “wrong…” answer.

nuh-uh

I like this new style.