Philosophy as a way of life for us

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
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The point or value of philosophy is to point
out how we are to live… there are several
aspects of philosophy… they are called, in no
particular order: Ethics/morality, Metaphysics,
epistemology, Logic, Political philosophy,
Aesthetics, Axiology…

So, how do we connect one of these to ''how
are we to live?" Let us take Ethics/morality for example…
what does Ethics/morality tell us about say, immigrants
in America?

Right now, the American version of the SS, ICE, is
rounding up anybody who looks brown or speaks
a different language… Is this Ethical, or moral?

Let us use philosophy, as a way of life, to question
the ethics of deporting people for the crime of being brown…

One argument is that the immigrants are criminals…
Ok, we have a judicial system to explore that very
act… if crimes have been committed, then the process
should be to bring them to court and try them…

But the evidence is quite clear that even people who
have never committed a crime are being detained and
then deported, what about them? One might say, they
are here illegally, but we know that ICE doesn’t care if
are here legally or illegally, they have deported several
American citizens based simply on the grounds that
the person spoke another language or was brown…
Where is the legal process for them? American citizens
should be treated as American citizens and brought
into the judicial system if for no other reason, then
to ascertain their legal status… but ICE/SS, doesn’t
even bother with that… ICE commits the crime
of violating the rights of American citizens…
as defined by the United States Constitution…
The legal law of the land is summarily ignored
and who is the criminal now?
From an ethical standpoint, ICE is no different than
a gang of criminals that arbitrarily act in whatever
fashion that suits them… How is that moral or Ethical?
If ICE breaks the law to enforce the law, it has no
moral, legal or ethical basis upon which to stand…
it is just as illegal as the immigrants they illegally
detain…

There is a strict process the legal system has to maintain
and every policeman must follow, but if ICE is outside
the legal system, as they appear to be, then ICE cannot
be treated as a legal police force… if they don’t follow
the legal process, they are not being ethical, moral or
legal…

Now one might say that immigrants are illegal,
they violated our laws… that is one of the tricky
parts of the law… the laws themselves are not always
ethical or moral… we all agree that slavery is immoral,
unethical and yet, yet there were laws in place to make
slavery legal… this law, one that is clearly immoral and
unethical, was still the law of the land… bringing us to
the point where just because it’s a law, doesn’t make
it ethical/moral… laws are not moral or ethical statements…
they are legal statements and being legal is not the same
as being moral/ethical… don’t do as the modern day
conservatives do, and treat the law as a moral or ethical
document… being illegal doesn’t make it unethical or immoral…

and if ethics and morals are, as they appear to be, distinct
and separate from being legal, then we have to approach
ethics/morals differently than a legal process…

now let us bring in another concept, nihilism…
and what is Nihilism? It is the negation/devaluing
of human beings and their values… if we use
an immoral act of negating, devaluing people to
promote our own values, that is nihilism…
and that is exactly what ICE is doing…
it is negating, devaluing people just because
they are brown or speak a different language…
that is pure nihilism…

So, what would an ethical, moral behavior be if
we were not to be nihilistic…

What would ethics and morality look like?

Values like treating people as having value, worth even
if, even if they are not American citizens… people have
value and worth just because they are human beings…
around here, one reads the many attacks on Jews…
this negation, devaluing of the Jews is nihilism…
of course, the ones doing the attacking, immigrants
and the Jews, for example, are not even aware they
are practicing nihilism… the negation of human
beings and the negation of their values…

It is on that basis that we can now separate why slavery
is immoral, unethical even if it is legal… that slavery
denies human beings and their values… that is
nihilism 101… and how the current ICE attacks on
immigrants are immoral and unethical, it denies,
negates human beings and their values… ICE
promotes Nihilism… conservatives, who routinely
deny, devalue other human beings and their values,
promotes Nihilism…

So, in this modern age, how does one promote ethics,
morality? By accepting the worth and value of other human
beings… or said another way, ‘‘WOKE’’ values are values
that are ethical, moral… anti-‘‘WOKE’’ is just another
example of nihilism… are we going to practice Nihilism
or are we going to promote ethical and moral values?

The answer lies in the values of being ‘‘WOKE’’…
That is the way to be moral, ethical…
to accept that other people, regardless of their
race, color, religion, sexual orientation, or different
background, is ‘‘WOKE’’ but that means it is also
anti-nihilism…

to be blunt, if you are ‘‘Anti-WOKE’’, you are practicing
nihilism… it really is that simple… any country,
state, legal status that denies human beings and
their values, is nihilistic… which then includes
Sparta, Athens, Rome, England during her glory
years… in fact, practically every single civilization of
note, has practice nihilism of some sort or another…
if you put legal standards on people based on race, religion,
color, creed, or sexual orientation… you are practicing
nihilism… you are denying them the right to be themselves…
to be true to their own values and beliefs… to force others
into having or holding your own beliefs/values is nihilism…

American overcame its own nihilism by removing,
violently removing slavery… and it overcame Jim Crow
laws that were also nihilistic… the overcoming of Nihilism
is the path to becoming human… the philosophical question
that we face, at least one of them, is how do we overcome
our modern nihilism?

and one answer is by using philosophy ‘‘as a way of life’’
not as a theory, but by its practical application…
the first step is to become aware of how deeply ingrained
Nihilism has become in our modern society/state…
violence against others due to the other being of
a different color, race, creed, nationality, sexual orientation,
that is nihilism… the modern curse…
and of course, many here can’t even tell us why
their support of nihilism is wrong… they see
modern day nihilism in some fashion, as being
moral or ethical… they can’t even tell us
why Nihilism is bad or to be avoided…

to them, to degrade, devalue, dehumanize others
is not only legal, but in some fashion, a positive thing…
they are so ignorant they can’t even tell us why
nihilism is bad… that is how ingrained Nihilism
is inside of today’s world…

millions can’t even tell they have nihilistic views or
beliefs… and as long as these millions practice
or follow nihilism, the world will have its malaise
and despair and angst… until we begin to overcome
our addiction to nihilism, we are going to be a second
rate, immoral, unethical society/state…

so, how do we overcome our modern day nihilism?

by bring philosophy back as a ‘‘way of life’’ that would
be one excellent start…

Kropotkin

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I think the foundation of being moral is to have an intelligent set of values that are well-supported by reflection and experience and that you have conviction in and are willing to defend and promote.

And I agree, nihilism sucks, and we need a response to it.

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I do not like the concept of morality, as it implies behavioral rules being forcibly applied to all. I prefer the notion of ethics, from Greek ethos (character), which implies an individual choice to act in this or that manner.

Now, how do you define nihilism? The term may have many different definitions. PK is labeling nihilism here everything that contradicts his worldview. That seems to be a rather odd choice of words.

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I’m happy with ethics; I haven’t really made a distinction between the two and see them both more broadly. As far as choice or freedom is concerned, there’s a distinction in ethics and in law between what is obligatory, what is permissible and what is ethical. For example, it’s ethical to donate to charity, but it’s permissible to buy shoes instead - but it’s obligatory to not buy a slave. The abortion debate is a good example of how these distinctions are used. Just because it would be great if everyone was a certain way, doesn’t mean we should try to force everyone to be a certain way.

I’m defining nihilism here as the position that life has no real meaning and it doesn’t matter what we do. Even though nihilists can try to relativize or undermine meaning, I don’t think the position is strong, or helpful.

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Max:
Now, how do you define nihilism? The term may have many different definitions. PK is labeling nihilism here everything that contradicts his worldview. That seems to be a rather odd choice of words.

K: I very clearly defined Nihilism… the negation of human
beings and their values… and I do believe that
nihilism is evil… it isn’t an ‘‘odd choice’’ it is the only
rational and logical choice… I choose to oppose nihilism
because it fails… there can’t be any type of success
while one is practicing nihilism… and that is shown
by our modern world…countries that are currently
practicing nihilism, the US, Russia, Turkey, Syria,
are all in trouble in one way or another…
again, denying, negating human beings
and their values, denying then based on
values like race, religion, color, sexual orientation,
those countries are practicing nihilism…
and they are suffering, hurting for doing so…

So, let us flip this script, go ahead and defend
the current state of Nihilism…
please feel free to defend Putin’s Russia or
IQ45 MAGAism… they are engaged in Nihilism,
so, defend them…

Kropotkin

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So, how does the practice of nihilism help us
in our daily lives? Did the nihilistic practice
of slavery help people have better or worse
lives? I would say that the practice of slavery
demeaned and devalues both the slaves and
their masters… both sides were hurt
by the practice of slavery… how does
the practice of devaluing or denying others
of their freedoms and values, make the masters
better people?

Hegel had something to say about that…
that owning slaves degrades and devalues
the owners as much as it degraded and devalued
the slaves… the practice of slavery, that of
nihilism, doesn’t help anybody…

practice of nihilism, be it Nazism, or MAGAism,
or slavery or the deportation of immigrants,
how does that help people become better people?
One might argue, the point isn’t to improve people,
but to punish people…and once again, how
does that help us or improve us?

the practice of Nihilism damages and devalues both
sides of the equation, both the people that are devalues,
demeaned like Gays, trans, brown people, liberals,
and it also demeans and devalues those who practice
those unethical, immoral values that is used to
practice nihilism… both the victim and the
practitioner of Nihilism are damaged and devalued
when nihilism is in use…

Kropotkin

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Yeah I make distinctions between nihilists, Nazis, MAGA, Putin, slave-owners etc. All very different categories.

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Keep_Relentless:
Yeah I make distinctions between nihilists, Nazis, MAGA, Putin, slave-owners etc. All very different categories.

K: and yet, all those groups practice nihilism, the denial and
dehumanization of human beings and their values…
that is the commonality of those groups… they
practice Nihilism…

Kropotkin

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That’s confusing. Not liking a minority or not respecting them or even actively enslaving or exterminating them does not mean you believe in no values whatsoever. It probably just means you have selfish values.

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Keep_Relentless:
That’s confusing. Not liking a minority or not respecting them or even actively enslaving or exterminating them does not mean you believe in no values whatsoever. It probably just means you have selfish values.

K: its only confusing if you don’t understand my point…
I never said that ‘‘I believe in no values whatsoever’’
that isn’t how I have defined Nihilism…

Nihilism is the act of negating, dehumanizing human beings
and their values… that is nihilism… and every group on my
list practices it, Nazi’s, MAGA, slaveowners, conservatives,
to name a few who practice Nihilism within their principles…

Nihilism isn’t the act of having ‘‘no values’’
it is the act of having values that lead a person,
or group to deny or devalue others and their
values based on religion, race, color, sexual
orientation… to say, black are inferior to whites,
is nihilism because it denies basic human traits
to a people based on skin color, not on any sort
of facts… to deny gays because they are gay is
nihilism because it denies gays values, which
is to love whomever they want… just
as you want to love whomever you heart
desires… but to deny that love based on
the fact that it isn’t who you love is nihilism…

Kropotkin

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A Christian conservative who says gay marriage should not be allowed, is a nihilist according to you? Is someone who believes gender is biological and there are only two genders a nihilist? Where does it stop? Is everybody who has a political opinion that upsets people a nihilist? Is being a nihilist about not respecting rights? You’re really not using the word in a way it’s normally used. You should pick another word, like “oppressive” or “dehumanizing”. Except maybe that wouldn’t sound as clever.

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For me the the core point is the idea of having a choice to act in this or that manner. How a man will act in life depends on a lot of circumstances, but also on his ethos, on his character and nature. That’s something you can actually rely on, depending on a person’s nature, you’ll know how they act under normal circumstances. You mentioned slavery and abortion, and that’s the point of morality, really, it involves a law, an imposition to all, but not necessarily a person doing something because they want or believe that’s the right course of action. Now, when you talk about giving to charity, that’s an ethical choice, that’s a whole different thing than being forced to share your money with others (what would happen according to the State morality of socialism, for instance). I see morality as social convenience, as something forced rather than voluntary, and therefore as something that I do not and cannot condone, despite having to obey to the laws of my society like any other. For by imposing rules for all, it ignores particular instances and personal circumstances, like in the notorious case of abortion. It may be morally wrong to do an abortion, but one person, who happens to have an unwanted pregnancy right now, may find it acceptable according to her particular ethics. “My body, my rules”.

Yes, that’s the standard definition for nihilism and I agree, it’s not a very comforting or helpful view, that’s why I’d choose existentialism in its place, instead of “nothing has any meaning”, I adopt: “everything has the meaning you want to attribute to it”, “you create your own meanings”, etc. Nihilism does have a point, in fact we can’t establish an objective meaning to existence, but when you concentrate on real living instead of mere theorizing, it completely loses its appeal. So I’d say, nihilism as an idea seduces you as long as you’re not busy creating meaning in your own life.

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Keep_Relentless:

A Christian conservative who says gay marriage should not be allowed, is a nihilist according to you? Is someone who believes gender is biological and there are only two genders a nihilist? Where does it stop? Is everybody who has a political opinion that upsets people a nihilist? Is being a nihilist about not respecting rights? You’re really not using the word in a way it’s normally used. You should pick another word, like “oppressive” or “dehumanizing”. Except maybe that wouldn’t sound as clever.

K: Ok, let us try this… what is the traditional definition of Nihilism?
Someone who holds no values at all… none…
I am 66 years old and I have never met someone who fit
this definition… Everyone has values of some sorts…
EVERYONE… there is no such thing as a ‘‘true Nihilist’’…

The traditional definition of Nihilism has no members within it…
it is an empty definition… so, I have moved a definition which
has no members within it, to a definition that has millions of
followers… that of Nihilism where one is a ‘‘Nihilist’’
if they deny or devalue other human beings because of
how they look, or how they dress, or who they love…

and yes, by my definition, a ‘‘Christian’’ family that denies
the rights of gays based on a biblical foundation is practicing
Nihilism… as most Christian families are also hypocrites,
but hay, that is another thread…

Kropotkin

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I’m not willing to concede that we can’t establish objective meaning, and by that I mean, that some attributions of meaning are more reasonable than others… but I’ll have to sleep on it before offering a more substantive response. (It’s time for bed.)

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The philosophy of unlimited and unregulated global mass immigration of nations without national borders according to Peter.

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Your solution to nihilism is fatal altruism, fatal empathy, and a suicidal kind of morality without reason? If that’s where we’re at in the world no wonder the atmosphere feels like everybody is screwed. No, I prefer a third option to this collective madness, you and the nihilists deserve each other’s company.

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Are you talking to me? I don’t have a “solution” to “nihilism”. I was just trying to work out what he was saying.

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Oh good, you’re not one of those hopeless naive fantasy fatal atrusitic types. We got too many of those in the world already.

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Humanity is a collective, collectivism is superior. Individualists can go starve to death in the wilderness by themselves or go get eaten by a grizzly bear bushwacked to live the true lifestyle of exotic individualism.

revenant-bear-attack

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I’ll take an extra helping of reason with my morality, thanks.