Possession

Philosophy Forums Psychology and Mind
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(Note this should go in Physical Sciences, but Faust will move it)

AC/DC
Alan Alda
Alice Cooper
Beach Boys
Beyonce
Black Sabbath
Bob Dylan
Bon Jovi
Caesar Pink
Carlos Santana
David Lee Roth
Deep Purple
Denzel Washington
Eazy-E
Eminem
Ginger Baker
Halle Berry
Lady Gaga
James Dean
Jay-Z
Jimi Hindrex
Jim Morrison/The Doors
Joan Crawford
Joe Cocker
Johnny Depp
Joni Mitchel
Judas Priest
Juliette Lewis
Kanye West
Katy Perry
Keanu Reeves
Kevin Bacon
Leonardo DiCaprio
Lucille Ball
Marilyn Monroe
Meat Loaf
Meryl Streep
Metallica
Oasis
Oprah
Peter Sellers
Queen
River Pheonix
Robin Williams
Robert Johnson
Roseanne Arnold
Ruldoph Valentino
Shirley Maclaine
Snoop Dog
Suicide Tendencies
Tori Amos
Vin Diesel
Willie Brown
Winona Ryder

[size=150]Pop Culture[/size]

The preceding is a list of people who have self-identified as being possessed, or using some sort of other language that points to possession. That is, these people have basically said, verbatim, ‘I give myself over to the forces outside of myself, literally.’

Possession is an interesting subject, as it allows one to operate outside of themselves, wherein the entity that inhabits can operate the subject’s mind to much more advanced territories. This is not a clear-cut relationship, with either party ebbing and flowing into the other one. In the case of artists – namely pop culture figures of music and cinema here – once it’s ‘show time’ the possession is usually complete, and ‘pure’ (not the right word) creativity/presence/ensues.

Take Willie Brown for instance. A guy shrouded in mystery for most of his life. Friends say he never practiced. Ever. If he heard a song once, he understood it and could play it effortlessly.

Take Joe Cocker, it’s very easy to see what I’m talking about in this video. If you’re tempted to say ‘Well, that’s how he performs,’ please keep in mind he said, specifically, ‘I get possessed with I sing.’ Kinda makes you wonder what friends Joe, who struggled for a while to make it in the music industry, is really talking about getting a helping hand from.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKmDYrKDjq8[/youtube]

[size=150]Masons[/size]
It’s a well known secret because of Crowley that Masons engage in possession. High ranking members do this, and it involves binding the spirit to a grandfather clock in many instances, or a pendulum, or something to affix a ‘heartbeat’ to the operation.

Crowley writes of demons in a way that is reminiscent of Sheldrake’s morphogenetic fields, wherein these entities are simply thought manifestations caused by years of thinking, basically. He doesn’t subscribe to a morality, and neither do Masons, who are obviously comfortable with this.

I’m sure some of you guys have seen that clip of Bush Sr. With the glowing eyes. That is possession.

[size=150]As always, what is your point, Gobbo?[/size]
My point is that there are different fields of thought regarding possession – for instance there are astral ceilings that you hit when you engage in this type of behavior, and you are barred from accessing higher realms, should you even be trying for that (This is also something that Crowley very specifically talks about. ) – but most will conclude that almost every notable instance in history has been where the spiritual world has bled over into the material, be it for good or for bad.

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Related from the Religion Forum;

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People can be sloppy with language, in fact it’s hard not to.

I think when some creative people say they get possessed they are actually being possessed by more of themselves than they usually allow through. More of the unconscious, if you will. It doesn’t necessarily mean they think or it is the case that some other entity gets to use their bodies or they are channeling or whatever for that period of time. Pretty much anyone can have this experience dancing to music or doing some kind of improv/role play or painting, etc.

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You’re right. The entire list was being sloppy with language.

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That’s not what I meant, if you think it was.

Note: I said

which puts the stress quite the opposite of this last, I assume sarcastic, assertion of yours.

6

Just tell me your point please.

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I did already. But I’ll reword it. A lot of creativity is allowing more of yourself to be present. Some people think it is humble to say God wrote through them or they have no idea where it came from or even possession type language. But actually there need be no kind of possession present. I do think possession happens and can also happen to creative people and I don’t care to weigh in on percentages, but because creative activities are so important to me, I don’t assume that someone using that language actually has been possessed. I know what it feels like to be taken over by what turn out to be my own creative impulses or insights and have worked with a lot of creative people in a lot of different ‘arts’, and think it would be off to think some other entity is responsible or taking them over because they say certain things.

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If you think it’s possible, then it’s somewhat odd to not believe someone when they say something, presumably because you think they are mistaken about what they are experiencing…even though you think it’s possible.

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Seems like an odd way to look at it.

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I don’t follow this part

If you have the feeling of being ‘taken over’ how do you know it was only creativity?

Seems like it would be off to completely ignore something seemingly ‘just cause.’ I know for some people it’s hard to believe in possession but this is a philosophy forum. Let’s be logical.

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Well, for example, I used to write short stories and it seemed like the images or plot parts just came. I couldn’t connect to some of them, though I liked them. Where did they come from? later, sometimes not that far in the future, sometimes years later, I could see I was dealing with feelings and issues through symbols - sometimes rather obvious - that clearly connected to parts of my own life I hadn’t really wanted to look at consciously. At that later time I could connect with the feelings or insights and deal with them. Especially when this would happen years later, I could really feel that when I first wrote, it was coming from parts of me I was not ready to be fully conscious of. I have experienced similar things acting or in other arts. That pieces of me that I thought were not me or at least surprised me that they seemed to so easily flow from me, later I could see/feel had been part of me all along.

I specifically said I believed in possession.

But you are probably right not to actually read what I write. It seemed critical so it was worthless.

Everyone on that list was possessed and anyone who uses that language or something near it has been possessed and my experience around these things - including direct healing work around possession is all valueless. I mean, what could I know about the subject and your knowledge is complete.

I stand corrected. How dare me.

I’ll leave you to your thread. Might be better as a blog, though.

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I’m just trying to explore the topic, and what you’re saying doesn’t make sense to me. Sorry for asking for clarification.

For the record what I’m asking is perfectly relevant if you do, or do not believe possession is impossible.

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Ah, well. I couldn’t resist. (or should I say ‘I don’t know what made me do it.’?)

For those interested in nuance, I think it is important to bring in the idea of things that are ego-dystonic.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egosyntoni … godystonic

People have a habit of not identifying with portions of themselves. If they think of themselves as nice (all the time, regardless), and they lose control and scream at someone, they may openly disidentify with what happened: that wasn’t me. I am not like that.

What people identify in themselves as themselves varies culture to culture and individual to individual. You can hear people refer to their bodies, their impulses, their thoughts, whatever as not them, but things that happen to them.

They can be afraid of seeming pompous, impolite, strange, immoral, whatever, and these motivations keep them from acknowledging, even to themselves, that it really was their urge, thought, rage, whatever.

Powerful experiences, especially non-verbal ones with heavy body involvement - dance is one where many may at least have a hint of this - are often disidentified with. Also incidents with strong emotion, or modes of experiencing out of the what the person considers the norm. Altered states that is.

None of this means that possession does not happen or is not used by some groups. I believe it does and is. I do believe that one can be taken over from something outside or have ‘things’ in you that are not your or yours.

But people are generally not very aware their own idenfitication and disidentification choices, fears, habits…etc.

So they can then think that any time they find it hard to identify with something they do or states they enter, it means they are possessed. And that’s a shame and then also on other occasions very insidiously convenient.

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I wanna know what it is that does the possessing.

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There are a lot of different answers out there, dependent on culture and subculture. Psychiatry could even be viewed as one subculture,
and certainly the Jungians can be.

Then there are shamans and possession cults.

Then there are the mundane ways of reporting possession:

something came over me.
i was not myself.

Best to find out hands on, but accompanied by the various philosophers of possession out in their fieldwork. Ask them what indications they have and what they consider the intruding entity to be.

But if you view words on a screen or words on paper, the liklihood is that the western educated intellectual subculture will keep everything far away at a nice safe skeptical distance.

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I’ve also experienced these sorts of events, a kind of subconscious thought manifesting itself into physical reality. I’ve delve myself into these studies and experiences in how the human mind can consistently be in this creative state of mind. It usually happens in use of reverse psychology on the self. When I engage in an activity without seeking an identity, doing it for the sake of doing it, the activity becomes effortless, in way where my thoughts are in autopilot. I’m not positive about possessiveness, though.

Gobb,
are considering that the Free Masons are the possessors, or the devil himself?

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I think some high level ones get possessed.

I think there are a lot of ones that do not, and walk a different path.

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When I told my mentor that my poems come through me, that they were me and not me, he responded thusly: “Bullshit! You are tapping into who and what you are, not into some super source that feeds your imagination.”
Knowing that we know so little about what humans are capable of thinking or doing, I’m inclined to agree. When I suffer depression and a poem comes from that, there is no ghost writer feeding my creative endeavor. It’s I in another state of consciousness.

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Whichever school you consult, be it psychiatry, psychoanalsis, neural bliology, behavioral sciences, Darwinism, psychosynthesis, kabballah or simply common sense, everyone agrees that the conscious part of what we are (the part of which we are conscious) is the tip of the iceberg of what we are. Music is the play of harmonies, a matter of wavelengths, a very impersonal, “inhuman” thing, which means that it’s capable of addressing and engaging energy that is not yet part of the already existing consciousness. Music is almost necessarily an activity that “possesses”, or draws into consciousness parts of the unconscious. I wonder if anyone can point to a musician that is not possessed. If so, it must be a bad musician.

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I think one can channel or be taken over, but just that this is not necessarily the case. And yes, I agree, there is much more to ourselves than we first know about or have easy access to.