poverty of philosophy

What I have to say has several moving parts, so
one has to hang in there and wait for me to get
to a particular section.

The other day, I got to thinking about “modern philosophy”.
I Google “Modern philosophy” and I got Nietzsche, hobbes,
Kant, and Locke among others, but not one single 20th
century philosopher. I then goggled “postmodern philosophy”
and I got Lyotard, Deleuze, Derrida and Foucault.
I got to thinking about the difference between
“Modern philosophy” and “postmodern philosophy”.
The first difference I noticed is, the so called
“modern philosophers” are considered “great” philosophers.
When philosophy is read or talked about, it is the
“modern philosophers” that get talked about.
Even here on ILP, for the most part, when a philosopher
get referenced, it is the “modern philosophers” that get
written about, not the “postmodern philosophers”.
(I have left Wittgenstein and Derrida to the side for the moment)
What is the reason that when philosophy is talked about,
it is people who have been dead for over 100 years.
But if you actually think about it, Foucault and Satre have
been dead over 20 years. But still even in this day and age
of millions getting a collage education, (as recently as the early
1940s the idea of collage for even the middle class was
really unheard of) since the 1950’s, the idea of a philosopher was
Nietzsche or Plato, not Foucault or Satre. I suspect one of the
reasons is in the very nature of the type of philosophy done.
The “modern philosophers” dealt with issues that are more
understandable to the average person. We can now deal with
existentialism. Existentialism did deal with those big issues
and did get noticed even by the likes of “Life” magazine in the
forties and fifties. but it was considered by American audiences
as foreign, as European. And then we get to “postmodernism”.
Postmodernism talked about pluralism and relativism
and representation and multiplicity. It doesn’t
even look like philosophy. “postmodernism” doesn’t talk
about the big issues of existentialism and that doesn’t even
get to the idea of poststructuralism of Derrida.
The idea of language, of deconstruction of language or
even of Wittengestein language game theories,
as philosophy is ludicrous. Derrida death of a few years
ago put the idea of “postmodernism” back out there and
still few know or care about “postmodernism”. The very
ideas of “postmodernism” has little value or understanding
within society at large. It is philosophy of the few, by the few,
for the few. The poverty of philosophy is because it
no longer discusses ideas that the average person knows
or cares about. “Modern philosophy” had concerns that
a person could value and understand. Today, philosophy
stands at the edge of obsolescence. The poverty of philosophy
is about the lack of speaking of concerns of the average person.
Who talks about the larger matters, the larger issues
of our life and what it means to exist within the universe.
Now some out there, will say, “I failed to properly understand
postmodernism” but postmodernism is quite clearly not about
absolute truth. It is about “truth” small truth, personal truths,
and it is about relativism. It fails not because of that,
but because postmodernism does not speak of or share
the concerns of the average person.

A paragraph of Derrida Grammatology,

“Anything which determines something else (its interpretant)
to refer to an object to which itself refers (its object) in the
same way, this interpretant becoming in turn a sign, and so
on ad infinitum… If the series of successive interpretants
comes to an end, the sign is thereby rendered imperfect, at least.”
{Elements of Logic}

And in this paragraphs lies the poverty of philosophy.
It says nothing to the average person or even one interested
in philosophy. Philosophy is is on the brink of disappearing.
It is poverty stricken to the point of vanishing. Return philosophy
to the understanding of john smith, average man walking the streets.
Or doom philosophy to oblivion.

Kropotkin

Hi, Peter. Modern philosophy began and ended with Nietzsche. I know he’s not exactly your boy, but that’s not my fault. Philosophy was dead in the Middle Ages, but it came back. Existentialism was fodder for filmmakers and novelists, and so had some currency for a while. Derrida is a pimp - a mere hipster.

Philosophy still has relevance to the study of law, sociology and some of the sciences. Artists of all kinds still read philosophy - including Derrida. Peeps like Singer, Rawls and Nozick will take their place in the histories. The Sunday Times still runs The Ethicist column, I believe, while Bill Safire’s On Language is much more brief than it used to be (for reasons I do not know).

That specialisation has been the trend shouldn’t surprise you, and isn’t, in itself, a bad thing. Science, the arts, and religion have all been going through the same process. Boards like this are the best thing to happen to philosophy - ever - in the whole history of the world. Things are not worse than they used to be. You’re just being a grouch. Going out to get wasted in a minute. Maybe you should do the same. It’s saturday in California, isn’t it?

faust

faust: Hi, Peter. Modern philosophy began and ended with Nietzsche. I know he’s not exactly your boy, but that’s not my fault. Philosophy was dead in the Middle Ages, but it came back. Existentialism was fodder for filmmakers and novelists, and so had some currency for a while. Derrida is a pimp - a mere hipster."

K:Derrida a Pimp? OK. My problem with Nietzsche is
people tend to turn him into the second coming. I do disagree
with you philosophy was dead during the middle ages.
Many a fine philosopher came around during the middle ages,
St. Anselm, Abelard, St. Thomas Aquinas, among others during
that time period."

F: Philosophy still has relevance to the study of law, sociology and some of the sciences. Artists of all kinds still read philosophy - including Derrida. Peeps like Singer, Rawls and Nozick will take their place in the histories. The Sunday Times still runs The Ethicist column, I believe, while Bill Safire’s On Language is much more brief than it used to be (for reasons I do not know).

K: I wrote about the poverty of philosophy, not the death.
I do belive that philosophy is barren these days. Ever
try reading Rawls? Yeeech. Ugly stuff.

F: That specialisation has been the trend shouldn’t surprise you, and isn’t, in itself, a bad thing. Science, the arts, and religion have all been going through the same process. Boards like this are the best thing to happen to philosophy - ever - in the whole history of the world. Things are not worse than they used to be. You’re just being a grouch. Going out to get wasted in a minute. Maybe you should do the same. It’s saturday in California, isn’t it?

K: Specialisation is great in medicine and some other sciences,
but lousy for philosophy. Philosophy is about the overall scheme
of things, 'where do I fit in the universe" type of thing.

I am getting grouchy in my old age, but that doesn’t affect this
however. It is Saturday in California, however, the wife and I
must go to some social function. Free food, so I’m there.
I never turn down free food, especially if it prime rib.

Kropotkin

Aquinas? Dude, Comedy Central could follow Stephen Colbert with a half-hour reading of that drivel, and do quite well. Can you picture the punks on South Park reading that twisted excuse for logic? I could. Think about it.

What people make of Nietzsche is not Nietzsche’s fault.

I have read Rawls - took a whole course on his first book. He’s a beautiful and fecund writer - promoting the liberal agenda. Champion of welfare, affirmative action - enemy of corporate greed and Reaganomics. None of which I agree with, however. And he was fundamentally wrong in his Kantian basis, and not successful in his ersatz metaphysics, but that’s quibbling. Still, some of his formulations of SC theory and the attendant issues are the best yet. I think you underestimate him.

But I get your point - I’m just saying it ain’t all bad.

I was trying to get at this same point in the thread on animal rights, but could only manage some philosophical spittle. I think I shall start a thread on eudaimon - a modern interpretation - as Danchoo has inspired me, and as we have hijacked that thread.

Hope you had fun. I was taken out to dinner tonight, as it happens. My favorite place, in Warren RI. Squid, mussels, littlenecks, and shrimp over - can’t think of it - long pasta of some kind. Portobellos w/spinach and garlic up front, and a bottle of good california shiraz. Can’t wait for my next burp!

f

Linguini

No, it was thinner, like cappelini. Maybe it was cappelini. I think it was cappelini. I just noticed that I made it to “thinker”. That must have helped.

faust the thinker

Wait till you get to my title…

I can’t wait. Myself, I always know exactly what I am talking about.

Anyway, those are my plans for the fallout shelter. I’ve already got 10,000 gallons of water, two hundred car batteries, and over 700 McDonald’s straws, still wrapped, in a bunker near my bugout cabin. But I can’t talk now, got to get over to the philosophy board. Maybe someone can tell me what that pizza topping I had tonight was. Talk to you later, one-eyedJack.

And remember, always keep a round in the chamber!

macheteman

:laughing:

Peter,

What comes to mind reading your post is that truly great thinkers are, almost invariably, ahead of their time. Nietzsche did not hit full stride until the latter quarter of the 20th century; guys like Jaspers and Heidegger probably still haven’t hit full stride; Schopenhauer has never enjoyed the success he envisioned, yet today, in 2006, there’s a guy like me who is just now getting very interested.

I suspect there are some folks out there whom none of us have ever heard of, writing away their deepest meditations, and have yet to even be published. Perhaps one day they will be, and, if you’ll allow me the hypothetical, they’ll be ‘discovered’ only years and years from now, fostering an interest in their notebooks, et al, leading the way into a period of their being considered ‘serious’ reading. Yet, perhaps that day will only come some fifty years after their death.

There’s too much competition for people’s atttention nowadays to allow something like an original philosophy to come to center stage the way Descartes’ or Kant’s did. But I suspect, one day, the term ‘modern philosophy’ (in the literal sense, not the chronological term of academic philosophy) will include someone working and writing today.

If philosophy were to truly die, its death would occur subsequent to the death of religion, imo: so long as there are competing ideologies - hell, so long as there is disagreement regarding the ‘big issues’ of human activity and interaction - there will be the need for philosophical discourse, meditation, and inquiry.