power, time, space, and energy

[MySiddhi]

http://mysiddhi.freehostia.com/

[Anthem]

@You

The Zero-Point Energy is God the Father, the Zero-Energy Tachyon is Logos the Son, Mutualistic Tachyonic Sapience is Holy Spirit or Angels, Parasitic Tachyonic Sapience is Wicked Spirit or Demons, and Humans are Bradyonic Sapient beings.

Uh-huh…

It’s unfortunate that you contradict yourself.

@You also

PROP. II. All things are made of that which exists everywhere and that which has always existed. (Aristotle & Mars Sterling Turner)

Proof.–Nothing is made of nothing, nowhere does nothing exist, and at no time has nothing existed [three tautologies from (PROP I)]. Therefore all things are made of that which exists everywhere and that which has always existed; God. QED

All well and good if that’s how you want to look at it. But that is irreconcilable with this:

@Then you

It is interesting to note that T. Rex is dated older than the basalt level. In other words, T. Rex existed in a world that contained only a granite lithosphere. How could blood cells, blood vessels, and connective tissue last 68 million years? The bibles account of a few thousand years is far more reasonable.

Which is it…everything has always existed or ‘in the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth?’ Is it that

Conservation of Energy (Julius Robert Mayer) states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, therefore it has temporal infinity i.e. energy is eternal or has always existed. It is a statement of the conservation of gauge boson substance. Gauge bosons themselves are not eternal. Rather it is the substance of gauge bosons that are eternal, specifically energy.

or that God created energy? If God is everything as you say and everything has always existed, this implies a self-ordering, self-aware universe (like the CTMU which you site) which is a much different picture picture of God than what the Bible paints.

It’s sad to think someone so seemingly smart can believe such unscientific things as a 5-6 thousand year old earth, and that black people are being punished for building a skyscraper. I’ll tell ya, we’ve made it further up than a stone ziggurat could and we’ve got much bigger cities, and our language is doing quite the opposite of getting confused…

Another contradiction:

@You again

We existed before them, they have larger brain cavities, stronger muscles, they were cannibalistic and very violent, and their mtDNA demonstrates we did not or could not productively mate with them. They were superior in every physical way yet they all died off “some how” which the bible explains was through the flood.

and this from before:

@You

It is interesting to note that T. Rex is dated older than the basalt level. In other words, T. Rex existed in a world that contained only a granite lithosphere. How could blood cells, blood vessels, and connective tissue last 68 million years? The bibles account of a few thousand years is far more reasonable.

Which is it…we’re good at telling things about the past from fossil records or we’re bad? How do we ‘know’ that Neanderthals were cannibalistic (never heard that before) and violent, but are completely wrong about when the dinosaurs lived?

Give me a break.

[Muscular_philosopher]

Something tells me this is Ladyjane…

[MagsJ (Surya Loka)]

I think it’s the OCD’esque/fanatical behaviour that belies the real person

…I also had my suspicions.

[Anthem]

@Muscular philosopher

Something tells me this is Ladyjane…

Nah, it’s an entirely new person, as far as I can tell. He actually reminds me more of dkane75…has that same Carl Theodore Heisel mentality about him.

[MySiddhi]

I guess you posted in the wrong thread… but ok…

Uh-huh…

It’s unfortunate that you contradict yourself.

All well and good if that’s how you want to look at it. But that is irreconcilable with this:

Which is it…everything has always existed or ‘in the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth?’ Is it that

or that God created energy? If God is everything as you say and everything has always existed, this implies a self-ordering, self-aware universe (like the CTMU which you site) which is a much different picture picture of God than what the Bible paints.

The contradiction is in confusion on what I actually said.

I never said “everything has always existed”.

I clearly said “that which has always existed”.

Does this distinction help you see your confusion and imagined contradiction?

Let me know if you had a point I didn’t address here.

It’s sad to think someone so seemingly smart can believe such unscientific things as a 5-6 thousand year old earth, and that black people are being punished for building a skyscraper. I’ll tell ya, we’ve made it further up than a stone ziggurat could and we’ve got much bigger cities, and our language is doing quite the opposite of getting confused…

I never said the earth was 5-6 thousand years old. And the bible doesn’t say.

their punishment is not just for building the tower… it was specifically for concentrating their population in rebellion to God’s command that we spread out. Our history and current events are filled with the fact that the more we concentrate populations the more crime and general degeneracy there is… including the formation of a state that is parasitic to those within and without and to the general ecosystem. Rural living is in fact God’s command.

Which is it…we’re good at telling things about the past from fossil records or we’re bad? How do we ‘know’ that Neanderthals were cannibalistic (never heard that before) and violent, but are completely wrong about when the dinosaurs lived?

I would say we are generally good at establishing the relative past from fossil records. The relations in radio dating will hold even if the radation flux was not constant over time… (which I claim it wasn’t); but the actual date would be wrong.

[MySiddhi]

@MySiddhi

Which is it…we’re good at telling things about the past from fossil records or we’re bad? How do we ‘know’ that Neanderthals were cannibalistic (never heard that before) and violent, but are completely wrong about when the dinosaurs lived?

I would say we are generally good at establishing the relative past from fossil records. The relations in radio dating will hold even if the radation flux was not constant over time… (which I claim it wasn’t); but the actual date would be wrong.

Well, I have done research on Neanderthal and the latest research conclusions is what I provided… though maybe I should add a source.

[Anthem]

@MySiddhi

The contradiction is in confusion on what I actually said.

I never said “everything has always existed”.

I clearly said “that which has always existed”.

Does this distinction help you see your confusion and imagined contradiction?

Let me know if you had a point I didn’t address here.

Semantics. I’m saying the Bible implies that God created the universe and is in a way separate from it. ‘From a void came swirling form’ kind of thing. I understand that you don’t believe this, but your Bible preaches something different.

@MySiddhi

I never said the earth was 5-6 thousand years old. And the bible doesn’t say.

You said a few thousand. A far cry from the several billion years since the earth’s formation, and the 68 million years since the dinosaurs lived.

@MySiddhi

their punishment is not just for building the tower… it was specifically for concentrating their population in rebellion to God’s command that we spread out. Our history and current events are filled with the fact that the more we concentrate populations the more crime and general degeneracy there is… including the formation of a state that is parasitic to those within and without and to the general ecosystem. Rural living is in fact God’s command.

If rural living is in fact God’s command, why doesn’t he ‘Babel’ us all over again? And you know, there’s a big trap in that logic:

According to you, the Bible, whatever, God says to spread out. (1)

The Bible also says God said to go forth and multiply. (2)

There is only a limited amount of space on the earth. (3)

Eventually, because of (3), we’ll be waist deep in each other if we follow (2), which contradicts (1). Address that.

[MySiddhi]

I’m saying the Bible implies that God created the universe and is in a way separate from it. ‘From a void came swirling form’ kind of thing. I understand that you don’t believe this, but your Bible preaches something different.

I respect your interpretation of the bible but you haven’t a single scripture to support it.

@MySiddhi

I never said the earth was 5-6 thousand years old. And the bible doesn’t say.

You said a few thousand. A far cry from the several billion years since the earth’s formation, and the 68 million years since the dinosaurs lived.

I am guessing you are having a hard times staying coherent with the topic. You challenged me with respects the date of the earth… now you again continue to act as if the “few thousand years” (bibles dating of the dinosaurs) is equal to the dating of the earth. Neurons miss firing?

If rural living is in fact God’s command, why doesn’t he ‘Babel’ us all over again? And you know, there’s a big trap in that logic:

According to you, the Bible, whatever, God says to spread out. (1)

The Bible also says God said to go forth and multiply. (2)

There is only a limited amount of space on the earth. (3)

Eventually, because of (3), we’ll be waist deep in each other if we follow (2), which contradicts (1). Address that.

God has “babel” Egypt, Greece, India, Rome, and Portugal through miscegenation with Cushites. Isn’t it ironic that Cushites inhabit much of the densely populated cities? Isn’t it ironic that Cushites do not live in rural areas?

The natural state of a Cushite in a rural setting is inside a mud hut… that is why they prefer the cities that we create.

Besides, there is more than one way to destroy these city states… as documented in the prophecies of the bible.

(3) the bible word “earth” is land. and there is a lot of land in this universe

Further, even on this earth… I just driving a few months ago across the states and as far as the eye can see, there wasn’t a single person at all for miles and miles.

I currently live in a place that I have to drive 15 minutes to get to a small town that has a population of 500. I don’t think we will run out of space on this earth for a long time… if humans actually obeyed God… and when we do populate it proper… we could then terraform other planets. etc.

This was actually a good question on your part… the best you have challenged me on.

[Anthem]

@MySiddhi

I respect your interpretation of the bible but you haven’t a single scripture to support it.

I don’t have an interpretation of the Bible. The interpretation comes from the fatherly, anthropmorphized picture of God that Christians and others have come to know. Also, unlike you, I don’t put much stock in the Bible (especially not Genesis) so I don’t consider much quoted from it to be ‘support’ or ‘evidence’ as far as real world events go. But, since you insist, first page, first line:

@The Bible

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

There you go. God created. It doesn’t say ‘God molded the stuff that was already there into the heavens and the earth and/or took part of himself and made it into the heavens and the earrth’, it says God created. Since we’re doing a quite literal translation of the Bible, I’m sure you’ll have no problem with that.

@MySiddhi

I am guessing you are having a hard times staying coherent with the topic. You challenged me with respects the date of the earth… now you again continue to act as if the “few thousand years” (bibles dating of the dinosaurs) is equal to the dating of the earth. Neurons miss firing?

Not at all. I included the date of the dinosaurs by scientists (died out about 68 million years ago). The only reason I mentioned the age of the earth is because you’ll find most Christians quoting the 5-6 thousand year range for the age of the universe. If you don’t believe that, good for you…I’d assume you believe that the universe is infinitely old. But that doesn’t help your case on the age of dinosaurs. If we can accurately depict the life of a Neanderthal and when they lived, then surely we can have a good guess into a roundabout ballpark to within 10 million years. That’s a pretty large margin of error, in case you were wondering.

@MySiddhi

(3) the bible word “earth” is land. and there is a lot of land in this universe.

And how do you propose to make the technology to get to other lands in the universe without cities? It can’t be done.

[MySiddhi]

@Anthem

@The Bible

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

I don’t have an interpretation of the Bible.,

There you go. God created. It doesn’t say ‘God molded the stuff that was already there into the heavens and the earth and/or took part of himself and made it into the heavens and the earrth’, it says God created.

Lets make sure you understand what you are trying to argue for. You are claiming the bible teaches exnihilo… yet, you have yet to show a single scripture that teaches it.

Do you understand this?

@MySiddhi

(3) the bible word “earth” is land. and there is a lot of land in this universe.

And how do you propose to make the technology to get to other lands in the universe without cities? It can’t be done.

Without industrial centers found in rural towns… you are probably right.

But such industrial centers can be spread out such that they never create a city.

[Anthem]

@MySiddhi

Lets make sure you understand what you are trying to argue for. You are claiming the bible teaches exnihilo… yet, you have yet to show a single scripture that teaches it.

Do you understand this?

Genesis 1:1, Psalm 33:6, John 1:3, Romans 4:17, 1 Corinthians 1:28, and Hebrews 11:3, to name a few. Now drop it.

@MySiddhi

But such industrial centers can be spread out such that they never create a city.

God said to spread out, not to avoid cities. And I assure you, at least on this earth, cities are absolutely necessary for the creation of a means to get to another piece of real estate in the universe. The power requirements and manpower alone necessitate it, not to mention the support for those specializing in the creation of such technology (housing, food, healthcare, general living stuff).

[MySiddhi]

@Anthem

@MySiddhi

Lets make sure you understand what you are trying to argue for. You are claiming the bible teaches exnihilo… yet, you have yet to show a single scripture that teaches it.

Do you understand this?

Genesis 1:1, Psalm 33:6, John 1:3, Romans 4:17, 1 Corinthians 1:28, and Hebrews 11:3, to name a few. Now drop it.

@MySiddhi

But such industrial centers can be spread out such that they never create a city.

God said to spread out, not to avoid cities. And I assure you, at least on this earth, cities are absolutely necessary for the creation of a means to get to another piece of real estate in the universe. The power requirements and manpower alone necessitate it, not to mention the support for those specializing in the creation of such technology (housing, food, healthcare, general living stuff).

(Genesis 1:1) In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

(Psalm 33:6) By the word of Jehovah the heavens themselves were made, And by the spirit of his mouth all their army.

(John 1:3) All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. What has come into existence

(Romans 4:17) just as it is written: “I have appointed you a father of many nations.”) This was in the sight of the One in whom he had faith, even of God, who makes the dead alive and calls the things that are not as though they were.

(1 Corinthians 1:28) and God chose the ignoble things of the world and the things looked down upon, the things that are not, that he might bring to nothing the things that are,

(Hebrews 11:3) By faith we perceive that the systems of things were put in order by God’s word, so that what is beheld has come to be out of things that do not appear.

What stops a pantheistic God from being described here?

There are many things that we cannot see “that do not appear”, for example; tachyons, most of the luxons, and the zero-point energy.

We know that all forms of energy come from the zero-point energy and are in it.

If you take into account robots… advanced robots that can create themselves and do all labor all those things that seem necessary are imaginary. The only thing that humans will need to provide is innovative abilities… which can be communicated from anywhere in the world via the internet.

[Anthem]

@MySiddhi

What stops a pantheistic God from being described here?

It doesn’t. It implies creation ex nihilo. All I’m saying is the Bible as a literal translation is incompatible with the idea of a perpetual universe.

@MySiddhi

If you take into account robots… advanced robots that can create themselves and do all labor all those things that seem necessary are imaginary. The only thing that humans will need to provide is innovative abilities… which can be communicated from anywhere in the world via the internet.

I’ll make another promise: creating the hardware and software to make these robots requires cities. A clean room all by itself is an enormous resource dump.

[MySiddhi]

@Anthem

@MySiddhi

What stops a pantheistic God from being described here?

It doesn’t. It implies creation ex nihilo. All I’m saying is the Bible as a literal translation is incompatible with the idea of a perpetual universe.

Than you don’t understand pantheism. In pantheism everything is made of God by necessity; God is not nothing. Therefore no exnihilo by necessity. How do you define “universe”. Do you mean the atomically based gallexies? i.e. only bradyonic energy; electrons, protons, neutrons and there configurations? That would amount to materialism. I definitely concede that the material universe was created and at one time did not exist. However if you include in the term “universe” the zero-point energy … than the universe would be perpetual.

@MySiddhi

If you take into account robots… advanced robots that can create themselves and do all labor all those things that seem necessary are imaginary. The only thing that humans will need to provide is innovative abilities… which can be communicated from anywhere in the world via the internet.

I’ll make another promise: creating the hardware and software to make these robots requires cities. A clean room all by itself is an enormous resource dump.

The software can be created on the internet by anyone anywhere in the world. The hardware can be created by the robots.

[Anthem]

@MySiddhi

However if you include in the term “universe” the zero-point energy … than the universe would be perpetual.

Doubt it.

@MySiddhi

If you take into account robots… advanced robots that can create themselves and do all labor all those things that seem necessary are imaginary. The only thing that humans will need to provide is innovative abilities… which can be communicated from anywhere in the world via the internet.

Yes…and the earth is held up on the backs of giant turtles, which are held on the backs of even gianter turtles, all the way down…

[MySiddhi]

@Anthem

@MySiddhi

However if you include in the term “universe” the zero-point energy … than the universe would be perpetual.

Doubt it.

@MySiddhi

If you take into account robots… advanced robots that can create themselves and do all labor all those things that seem necessary are imaginary. The only thing that humans will need to provide is innovative abilities… which can be communicated from anywhere in the world via the internet.

Yes…and the earth is held up on the backs of giant turtles, which are held on the backs of even gianter turtles, all the way down…

Perpetual meaning eternal. That energy cannot be created or destroyed is a fundamental law in physics. If it cannot be created or destroyed it is eternal i.e. perpetual.

You don’t even understand your own semantics. Do you really doubt the conservation of energy?

And what does the infinite regress paradox have to do with your lack of imagination with respects to robotics?

[Anthem]

@MySiddhi

Perpetual meaning eternal. That energy cannot be created or destroyed is a fundamental law in physics. If it cannot be created or destroyed it is eternal i.e. perpetual.

You don’t even understand your own semantics. Do you really doubt the conservation of energy?

I doubt your application of zero point energy to the equivalence of God.

I don’t doubt the conservation of energy. It’s just amusing to see someone who believes in the Christian version of God limit his creator in such a way.

@MySiddhi

And what does the infinite regress paradox have to do with your lack of imagination with respects to robotics?

Are you kidding me? Where are the advanced robots going to come from to create the other advanced robots?

[MySiddhi]

@Anthem

@MySiddhi

Perpetual meaning eternal. That energy cannot be created or destroyed is a fundamental law in physics. If it cannot be created or destroyed it is eternal i.e. perpetual.

You don’t even understand your own semantics. Do you really doubt the conservation of energy?

I doubt your application of zero point energy to the equivalence of God.

I don’t doubt the conservation of energy. It’s just amusing to see someone who believes in the Christian version of God limit his creator in such a way.

@MySiddhi

And what does the infinite regress paradox have to do with your lack of imagination with respects to robotics?

Are you kidding me? Where are the advanced robots going to come from to create the other advanced robots?

There is no God except Energy. Let that warm your heart.

How is the infinite zero-point energy limited in any way?

Robotics; we obviously need to develop “object oriented” robotics capable of iterative and self generating instantiation.

An important innovation in that path is zero-point energy extraction via tachyonic mechanisms.

[Anthem]

@MySiddhi

There is no God except Energy. Let that warm your heart.

Since you love it so much, where in the Bible does it say that?

@MySiddhi

How is the infinite zero-point energy limited in any way?

You’re saying that all-powerful God can’t create, can’t do the impossible.

@MySiddhi

Robotics; we obviously need to develop “object oriented” robotics capable of iterative and self generating instantiation.

An important innovation in that path is zero-point energy extraction via tachyonic mechanisms.

And what do we need to develop robitics? Survey says: cities!