I knew that. I just had to say it. 
Just as the war on drugs never ended, the war on terror never ended, and the rights they stole from us under these pretexts were never returned, I’m predicting the war on covid will never end, only morph into the war on viruses and intensify, as suddenly new viruses appear out of the ether as if by magic, and the rights they steal with it will never be returned, barring a revolution, or systemic collapse.
We’re going to see our governments crank the persecution of paleoconservatives, libertarians, and perhaps other dissidents to 11.
There will be more fake, exaggerated and real, but manufactured crises opportunistically exploited as pretexts to steal more of our rights unless we start resisting.
The elite are importing a culturally progressive, globalist variant of the China model to the west.
Democrats (maybe Harris) 45%
Republicans (Maybe Carlson Tucker) 25%
Patriot Party (one of the Trumps) 21%
Give give a fuck Party (no one) 8%
Is now a good time for reflection? How did the last 4 years turn out? How is the 5th year turning out? As far as lefty violence goes, it looks like they will be the violent ones no matter what. They were violent during the summer of love, and they were violent (at least in LA) in response to ICE’s illegal immigrant round-ups. True, both these violent outbursts occurred during Trump’s presidency, but I don’t recall the left being any less hateful towards the right or Trump from 2021 to 2024, though perhaps a bit more calm because (I guess) their guy was in power. I certainly don’t recall any violent outbursts from the right during either the Trump or the Biden presidencies.
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You are so modernized that you don’t even know what violence is.
Trump’s troopers forcibly evicting people from homes is violence. Peaceful protesters is not violence.
For example, if someone holds a hostage at gunpoint, but does not shoot the hostage, it is still violence. Violence doesn’t mean physical injury.
“I certainly don’t recall any violent outbursts from the right during either the Trump or the Biden.”
You can count the last three hundred years as a violent outburst from the Right, if you want. Some say they’ve been violently outbursting for thousands of years as far back as ancient greece.
Remember bro the Left is the Right’s fallguy. You generate a society of trash with capitalism and then blame the Left for all that trash. It’s a pretty good strategy. In fact, I’ve yet to cross a single garage political theorist at a forum who understands any of what I’m sayin’.
That aside, I wouldn’t even call the Capitol riots of the Right a violent outburst. Those asshats were about as violent as a class of seventh graders taking a field trip to a museum. The barbarian costumes were kinda scary though.
Yes but Marx said capitalism was a necessary hardship in order for civilization to exist. Only by capitalism can we ever achieve UBI socialism. In the Medieval period, society used to do back-breaking farm labor that modern countries no longer have to do, all because of capitalism. Farm labor becomes factory labor, factory becomes female jobs such as secretaries and managers, the only jobs left will be sexual jobs, males becoming femboys, sucking cocks, etc. robot wives won’t fully satisfy people.
“society used to do back-breaking farm labor that modern countries no longer have to do, all because of capitalism”
Close! It was human labor in the mode of capitalism, not capitalism or the capitalist, that brought those advances.
It just happened that some people called wage workers would build those factories under the legal control of people called capitalists. Same thing would have eventually happened without the capitalists there. We’re talking about a parasite infestation that swept across all of Europe and turned everyone it touched into a zombie mule.
I took this post as sarcasm but now I’m not so sure. Did I misinterpret it, or did Future and Detrop?
futureone wrote:
You are so modernized that you don’t even know what violence is.
Modernized, you say, huh? You mean brainwashed? Desensitized? What do you mean? If it’s a matter of degree, the left have violence in the bag no matter how modernized I am. The entire basis for leftist philosophy (Marxism) calls for violence.
futureone wrote:
Trump’s troopers forcibly evicting people from homes is violence. Peaceful protesters is not violence.
You’ve been watching too much CNN. I don’t know if you’ve heard, but my sources tell me ICE have been evicting illegal aliens from their homes–you know, 'cause it’s illegal for them to be there?–you sorta left that part out. You also left out the part about the peaceful protesters being anything but peaceful. But I don’t blame you. There’s so much disinformation out there that people are very confused about what’s real and what isn’t. You’ve probably never (ever) seen these images before, right?
^ Ah, these protestors really put Gandhi to shame.
futureone wrote:
For example, if someone holds a hostage at gunpoint, but does not shoot the hostage, it is still violence. Violence doesn’t mean physical injury.
Yeah, and police officers taking down dangerous criminals is violence. Or maybe we can get metaphorical. Having a heated debate with insults and angry words is metaphorical violence. Feeling rage towards someone is violence in spirit. You can spin it any way you want. ← But even here, the right is no more violent than the left (I’m even inclined to say violence still falls on the left).
promethean75 wrote:
You can count the last three hundred years as a violent outburst from the Right, if you want. Some say they’ve been violently outbursting for thousands of years as far back as ancient greece.
Thanks, prom, for supplying yet another perfect example of spinning “violence” any way you want. If you’re talking about the European conquests during the age of colonization, or the holy wars during the Crusades, or any of the Greek or Roman wars, I’d say it’s your definition of “right” that’s spinning. Remember, “right” and “left”, what they stand for, what they mean, changes from decade to decade.
promethean75 wrote:
Remember bro the Left is the Right’s fallguy. You generate a society of trash with capitalism and then blame the Left for all that trash. It’s a pretty good strategy. In fact, I’ve yet to cross a single garage political theorist at a forum who understands any of what I’m sayin’.
What you be sayin’ bro is that when you inject socialism into otherwise capitalistic systems, and those social programs cause more problems than they solve, we should still blame capitalism (it’s like men… always their fault).
Carleas wrote
I took this post as sarcasm but now I’m not so sure. Did I misinterpret it, or did Future and Detrop?
Call it an exaggeration if you must. Or call it selective memory (I did phrase it with “recall”). Or maybe call it misinformation. I don’t recall any stories about violence coming from the right (Jan 6 might be an exception but what a pathetic one at that), but like I’ve said many times here, the media is not to be trusted, and I wouldn’t be surprised if my sources are hiding certain stories from me. You’ll have to tell me.
Max Maxx wrote:
He forgot the day the Vikings tried to take over America
And little old ladies smiling for the camera:
^ Look at that raging violent criminal!
After Charlie’s assassination, we didn’t see violence. We didn’t see rioting. We saw what my husband always prayed we would see in this country. We saw revival.
- Erika Kirk
Yeah duh. I even heard a policeman say that “open carry is violence”. But I don’t agree with him on that.
In my opinion a threat is a form of violence. “Do what I say or else” is a form of violence.
Open carry is not violence because its not forcing someone to do anything. Forcing someone to do something is violence. Rape is violence even if they don’t physically harm the person. Slavery is violence.
You’ve been watching too much CNN. I don’t know if you’ve heard, but my sources tell me ICE have been evicting illegal aliens from their homes–you know, 'cause it’s illegal for them to be there?–you sorta left that part out. You also left out the part about the peaceful protesters being anything but peaceful. But I don’t blame you. There’s so much disinformation out there that people are very confused about what’s real and what isn’t. You’ve probably never (ever) seen these images before, right?
ICE has detained lawful citizens and revoked visas and such.
Furthermore, ICE is just a ruse for brainwashed right-wingers to go along with unAmerican policies. Trump wants to now spy on all Americans phones to give more dictatorship powers to the State. Trump wants to replace the police with the military and tanks. We see something similar in the UK where now they want to force Digital IDs on citizens in order to “reduce the harmful effects of immigration.”
What you be sayin’ bro is that when you inject socialism into otherwise capitalistic systems, and those social programs cause more problems than they solve, we should still blame capitalism (it’s like men… always their fault).
Stay naive. Capitalism in the west only succeeded because of imperialism. Without the West bullying other countries, then Capitalism would fail. America is 38 trillion dollars in debt because of Capitalism. Even if Wallstreet got nuked by Russians, the stock market would somehow still be green because of billionaires and their trading bots in bunkers. Only Capitalists believe 38 trillion dollars of debt is a success.
As for men’s fault, who is in charge of society, women or men? If you’re in charge then its your responsibility, own up to it.
futureone wrote:
Yeah duh. I even heard a policeman say that “open carry is violence”. But I don’t agree with him on that.
In my opinion a threat is a form of violence. “Do what I say or else” is a form of violence.
My opinion is that violence must be physical. It doesn’t have to involve harming others–damage to property for example–but it’s a physical act.
Mind you, we’re just quibbling over semantics, but I get the feeling the idea of violence qua threats comes from the idea that words are violence. We never saw that before the woke revolution.
In any case, words are fair game for whoever wants to (re)define them, but I’m an oldie who likes to stick to original definitions.
futureone wrote:
Open carry is not violence because its not forcing someone to do anything. Forcing someone to do something is violence. Rape is violence even if they don’t physically harm the person. Slavery is violence.
Rape and slavery are just as bad as violence, if not worse. You don’t need a special word to make it so. But that might depend on what you get out of a word like violence. Does it get you a harsher sentence? More jail time? More bad looks? I know it’s often used to justify retaliatory violence against what would otherwise be called non-violence, but I don’t know why people would feel they have to label something like rape or slavery “violence” in order to feel justified retaliating with violence. Violence is the least a rapist or slave owner deserves. But to justify hitting somebody for offending you? That’s how I see the word “violence” being (mis)used most of the time.
futureone wrote:
ICE has detained lawful citizens and revoked visas and such.
…
Furthermore, ICE is just a ruse for brainwashed right-wingers to go along with unAmerican policies. Trump wants to now spy on all Americans phones to give more dictatorship powers to the State ← Haven’t they been doing that since 9/11? → . Trump wants to replace the police with the military and tanks. ← I’ll reserve judgement on that until we see what the outcome is. → We see something similar in the UK where now they want to force Digital IDs on citizens in order to “reduce the harmful effects of immigration.”
Forgive me if I’m skeptical of news stories that report on controversial topics (topics that greatly affect the news organization’s bottom line depending on whether they cater to a left leaning audience or a right leaning audience). PBS is slightly left leaning (according to Ground News). That being said, there’s probably some truth to what the article is saying. My guess is these cases, if they happened at all, don’t represent the norm. They’re anecdotal. ICE and Homeland Security are probably under a lot of pressure from the Trump administration, and when your country goes on high alert regarding immigration and border security, these things tend to get messy. The same sorts of stories surfaced after 9/11 during the Bush administration. My guess is it’s a few incompetent and/or corrupt individuals who are making life miserable for these folks and earning their departments a bad reputation. They probably don’t react well to pressure, can’t sort out the confusion very well, frequently make mistakes, are demoralized, or really are genuine assholes. I highly doubt this is all coming from the top, from the man himself, like Trump literally told Homan: “Look, every once in a while, I want your men to use unnecessary force and cruelty, really harass them and shake them up, make them feel scared and threatened. Maybe a nice Canadian couple. Maybe a Brit. Maybe a college student here on a VISA. Don’t give them a reason either. Let them be confused. Let it really fuck with their heads. Cause, you know, what I really need right now is for my reputation to be even more trash.” <— Ya think?
futureone wrote:
Stay naive. ← Who’s naive? Why do you believe this shit? → Capitalism in the west only succeeded because of imperialism. Without the West bullying other countries, then Capitalism would fail. ← It’s that fragile, huh? → America is 38 trillion dollars in debt because of Capitalism. ← I don’t think you understand how the national debt works. Remember, the debt is accrued because of government, and government is the one corporation to whom the rules of capitalism don’t apply. → Even if Wallstreet got nuked by Russians, the stock market would somehow still be green because of billionaires and their trading bots in bunkers. ← Isn’t that a good thing? → Only Capitalists believe 38 trillion dollars of debt is a success.
← Why? Are you correlating capitalism with national debt? Like every capitalist society is bound to run a trillion dollar debt? →
As for men’s fault, who is in charge of society, women or men? If you’re in charge then its your responsibility, own up to it.
Oh God. 
when i load a search engine the first result for violence says: “the intentional use of physical force or power, threatened or actual, against oneself, another person, or against a group or community, which either results in or has a high likelihood of resulting in injury, death, psychological harm, maldevelopment, or deprivation”;
ice forcibly evicting people is violence. it is the threat of violence “do what i say or else i will do violence” is violence. i also argue that locking people in a cage is violence.
merriam webster defines violence as 1. a physical force and 3. intense, turbulent, or furious and often destructive action or force
idk why you like capitalism so much are you rich or something?
All capitalist societies are doomed to fail because of the nature of capitalism. The nature of capitalism, or the primary objective of capitalism is to put profit above people. Even capitalists are enslaved to the undercurrents of the capitalist rapids. For example all capitalists must maximize the profits to shareholders and it is illegal for a capitalist to do anything other than maximize profits, a capitalist must maximize profits against their freewill to benefit all shareholders. this leads to the enshitification of society and why modern gaming sucks.
Second reason all capitalist societies fail is because they want to form monopolies and merge businesses, leading to less competition and more enshitification, then the monopolies bribe politicians to pass laws to benefit the corporations, leading to parabolic effect of less and less meritocracy and more and more oligarchy.
Third example is Rome fell because the greedy hoarded all the wealth. And you couldn’t count on Roman politicians to fix society.
Fourthly, modern capitalists and neoliberals are a mutation, they are not healthy and normal. If you look into pre 1900s capitalists, they were all for wealth limits and believed people should have a wealth limit, if most of these capitalists time-traveled to today they would be appalled by modern capitalism and call it an abomination.
futureone wrote:
when i load a search engine the first result for violence says: “the intentional use of physical force or power, threatened or actual, against oneself, another person, or against a group or community, which either results in or has a high likelihood of resulting in injury, death, psychological harm, maldevelopment, or deprivation”;
← We’re fall back on google now? →
ice forcibly evicting people is violence. it is the threat of violence “do what i say or else i will do violence” is violence. i also argue that locking people in a cage is violence.
← Oh, that’s what you get out of it! You get to call ICE violent. D’uh! I forgot! →
← You remember when I brought up the fact that cops taking down bad guys is violence? Why do you think I did that? →
merriam webster defines violence as 1. a physical force and 3. intense, turbulent, or furious and often destructive action or force ← Where’s 2? →
Oh geez! Which definition do we choose?
futureone wrote:
idk why you like capitalism so much are you rich or something?
← Well, my dad was rich, and a capitalist, but no, that’s not why I defend capitalism. I just think the alternative is so much worse. →
All capitalist societies are doomed to fail because of the nature of capitalism. The nature of capitalism, or the primary objective of capitalism is to put profit above people. ← That may be what you see in capitalism, but it’s not the primary objective. The objective is to chose for yourself how you make a living. Whether you put profit ahead of people or not is up to the capitalist. → Even capitalists are enslaved to the undercurrents of the capitalist rapids. For example all capitalists must maximize the profits to shareholders and it is illegal for a capitalist to do anything other than maximize profits, a capitalist must maximize profits against their freewill to benefit all shareholders. ← Google that. It’s a myth. → this leads to the enshitification ← Fancy language!
→ of society and why modern gaming sucks. ← The epitome of enshitification! →
← You may be listing all the things that suck about capitalism, but not why it’s doomed to collapse. In fact, the maximization of profits is what keeps it going. You’re also confounding capitalism with the law. Even if it was true that business owners are legally obligated to maximize profits for their shareholders, that would be a law that can come and go through time and across different capitalist countries. Congress votes on laws, whether to introduce them or rescind them, and doesn’t come part and parcel with capitalism. →
Second reason all capitalist societies fail is because they want to form monopolies and merge businesses, leading to less competition and more enshitification, then the monopolies bribe politicians to pass laws to benefit the corporations, leading to parabolic effect of less and less meritocracy and more and more oligarchy.
← So, wait a minute! You’re critiquing pure capitalism? You do realize that monopolies are illegal, at least in the US, right? For the reason you just brought up. But, sure, in a purely capitalistic system, monopolies would arise and they would be a problem. You sound like Bob–raising a strawman and attacking that. The West is often associated with capitalism, and relative to highly socialist and communist countries, it’s very capitalist. So I’ve been coming at this from that perspective. But a bit of socialism mixed in with capitalism can be a good thing. ← That’s the West. A mix of capitalism with socialism. But what you’re talking about–this pure unadulterated capitalism–doesn’t exist. →
Third example is Rome fell because the greedy hoarded all the wealth. And you couldn’t count on Roman politicians to fix society.
← What? This is the first I heard this. Historians can point to many reasons the Roman empire fell, but I’ve never heard of hording all the wealth or capitalism (was Rome even capitalist?)–barbarians, disease, corruption, size, Christianity, hunger, debt, you name it–but not wealth hording or capitalism. Besides, the cornerstone of capitalism is competition, which does more to distribute wealth than the sort of unbridled capitalism you’re imagining where monopolies are free to form and dominate the market. Are you saying ancient Rome had monopolies or just that some people were rich? →
Fourthly, modern capitalists and neoliberals are a mutation, they are not healthy and normal. If you look into pre 1900s capitalists, they were all for wealth limits and believed people should have a wealth limit ← Do you have evidence of this? → , if most of these capitalists time-traveled to today they would be appalled by modern capitalism and call it an abomination.
Are you saying we have fewer regulations now and less socialism? I thought the idea behind the American project was to allow for maximal freedom (of not just citizens but the market place) and introduce regulations, restrictions, and social programs over time as the need arose. Indeed, I think those 19th century time travelers would be appalled… over how socialist and restricted the market has become.
But we each get our information from different sources. I really wish that could be the focus of all these discussions, but alas, people want to believe their sources are infallible and that they’re absolutely right. Talking about how we’re all in the same boat together is apparently abhorrent to most people.
BTW, I’m surprised you didn’t bring up the proletariat revolution? That was the key weakness of all capitalist systems according to Marx and the manifestation of its ultimate demise.