Questions for the devout of all beliefs.

Philosophy Forums Religion and Spirituality
1

I love religious circles of disscussion. It is like a camp ghost story circle.
Whoever scares the most people wins. Philosophy and politics do the same but, by far religion is the most interesting and the scariest. Ancient Texts and scrptures quoted, personal tales of godly interventions.

In religion not only does it deal with life here and now, it deals with the past and future. In religion we are condemned or condoned by ancestor’s actions and thoughts. Most religions deal with good vs. evil in some sort of way. Most religions dictate how you must aproach your life. Most religions seek to teach you the proper reverence and worship mode for its particular God/ess. It rewards and punishes as you do bad or do well.

Religions are by and large more unified then any followers would ever care to admit. They just aproach the same goal from different angles.

Most religions believe in goodness over evil and even those religions that are dubious to the religious world, believe that they are believing in good over evil.

Religion is a stern taskmaster for the devout and trully faithful. But those that are not so immersed get confused or fall away or just plug away hoping that they are not so bad off, few ever go deeper toward total devout. Interesting I think. Devout seems to be the bogeyman of the religious campfire circle

I have said I am not religious I don’t believe in religions. I don’t believe in religions for me. I believe in religions for others if they need it.

It is patently obvious there are devout to semi devout folks here. You fascinate me to no end. the semi devout usually are more peacock variety. They are more obviously doing it to impress then for any true self growth.

The most devout religious person I ever met was a lady in her 80s. When I say fell head over heels in love with this lady, I mean it in a pure way not sexual. It is a love that one can only bear for the innocent and pure. the type of love that makes you fiercely protective. This dear lady is as gentle and soft as down, yet stronger then the strongest tempered steel. She is christian not of any particular faith of christianity just pure christian. Her beliefs stem from the old but blend with modern in a very simple uncomplex unwavering faith. She has only ever claimed Christian.

When we first met we discussed religion and beliefs at her prompting. She did not judge nor condemn just questioned and learned. She laughed and made me laugh. She told me of her faith. I learned. I walked away from that first meeting very confused. After a year or so we had fallen into some routines. Always religion philosophy and politics. My goal was to get through our conversations with out letting her mention God and her goal was to try and fit God in. We had a blast.

She never once insulted my beliefs, she never thrust hers at me. She was always polite and sincere when she asked me if she could pray for me and my family since she truly loved us so. I was flattered. Her devoutness is not on her sleeve, it is as much a part of her being as her body and soul. I miss her dreadfully. They had to move out of state after Katrina swept their home into the Bay leaving only their cement steps to what was once the warmest home I have ever been privledged to be in. I cried when I saw those steps. I wish we could bring them home, for they remind me so of this lady.

Why did I tell you of her? Well Devout people and fanatics have always interested me. I learned what and why that drives this dear woman but, not nearly as thorough as my curiosity would like. I believe each devout person may have different drives and ways and thoughts even if they have the same religion. I would, if permitted, learn about others. I make no insults, nor condesencion, my ways are not better then yours.
I ask about all devout religious people of all religions that can be represented here, pagan, Islamic , Christian, wiccan, Jewish, buhdism, Satanism etc… May I ask questions in a respectful way about your devout beliefs. If you consider yourself a totally devout follower. The whys, wheres, hows and whats.

I also ask that none that come to this thread insult nor condemn any others here. No, I demand it. This thread is neutral territory. Your finest manners and mine are needed here. Humor welcome but, none that harm.

If you feel insulted please be open and explain PM if you need to. I am truly curious but an honorable curiousity. This thread is about learning not debating nor arguing. Can you handle that? If you are not devout in your beliefs please refrain from interjecting unless it is an honorable way.

thank you.

2

Hi Kris

No problem with me. Ask away. In all fairness though,at one time I tried to develop a board on this idea of the insistance of valuing attitude. It was shot down since it wasn’t wanted. It is felt to be elitist. So by all rights if someone wants to come in and ridicule you or someone else, it is their right and an accepted purpose on the board. You cannot demand otherwise. All I can tell you is that I won’t.

3

Kris,

This has the familiarity of a thread on bonding. Explain everything in 500 words or less. :laughing:

It seems to me that at the base of religion is faith in a ‘something’ that isn’t explainable in words - not that everyone doesn’t try…

Even though the ‘old hands’ probably have an idea where I stand, or don’t stand, I’ll try to sum up my “religious” understandings as best I can.

I’m a non-religious agnostic. I genuinely believe that I cannot know. Discerning patterns and order in the universe is an awareness, but it isn’t “knowing”. I’m interested in how shall we live and not why? This has fueled my interest in Taoism, which is more about how to see more than what to see. Any spiritual understanding is personal and un explainable in anything but metaphor, which always fall short.

That’s it.

4

Oh I can demand Nick, and if any here make problems even subtle ones :smiley: They will be ignored by all at my request and asked to leave peacefully by me. A couple of chances will be given of course, to be fair , some might not realize what they are doing.

The questions are not about religions, they are about the hows, whys and whats and wheres of the devout. About each persons aproaches maybe and more. but, not about the religion so much. I am sure folks will think of questions that I have not thought of.

5

To the non-religious, religious belief all seems the same. But this is simply not true. It’s like saying all Chinese people look alike, and it’s nearly as insulting. It stems from a lack of familiarity with the subject matter. I understand that to the non-religious, belief in God, any God characterises a group of people that are unlike you. But to a Christian, I have no more in common with a muslim that an athiest, therefore I might say, “people who don’t follow Jesus are more unified than they would ever care to admit. They just approach the same path to hell from different angles”.

Sure, but this a trivial definition. It’s like saying that you’ve observed that most people like to breathe, therefore people must all think the same. It makes a huge difference whether you believe that human beings are inherently good or evil, whether there are one or many gods, whether God is powerful or not, whether God is inherently good or not, whether God can be known or not, etc…

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It is merely my definition, Ned. I just said that so that you could know how I stand on beliefs of religions It is not intended to insult any, it is just merely my view in order to inform you of myself. I don’t ask for agreement at all. I just find that allowing people to know who they are dealing with honestly up front prevents future problems and possible dissent.

But if you wish to avoid this thread I will understand. I just really don’t wish to ask of religion as such, but of the whats whys etc… of the devout in any belief… If you are not interested in answering these types of questions from myself and others then I am sorry.

The first question may take a bit for the answers to roll in. To those that are devout in your beliefs do you see a difference between devout and devoted and why or what is the difference.?

7

I stand ready to respond to question marks as well. I’m really not in the mood to tell my whole life story of my comings and goings in faith, but I’ll sure answer any curiousities.

8

How about the one posted just above you Ucci about devout and devoted.

9

No need, I’m not upset, I’m just maybe a little agressive in setting out my defense!

Ok. But my point is the same. I think your definition is weak.

I don’t like the term devout. I doubt anyone thinks of themselves as devout even if it looks that way from the outside, it’s a little too self-congratulatory. I would usually descibe myself as a committed Christian (practice) or orthodox Christian (theology rather than denomination). But to answer your question I would say that there is no difference. Both devout and devoted come from the same root latin word devotus. There may be a subtle shade of meaning in that devout could apply to to rules of the religion while devoted is usually directed to a person. But the words are so similar I really don’t see a difference. Do you?

10

First off Ned there will be no attacks here. If you feel there is, let me know. you need not feel defensive. I fully respect each and every belief and religion. I will not tolerate disrespect. I will forgive and I expect all to forgive unintentional insults or slights. Some times one holds a thought that may unintentionally hurt someone with out knowing it does. so each gets a couple of chances.

Your religion is not important here. It is your connection to it. That is of interest and of course all of us that participate.

You asked about my views of devout and devote. Yes, I see a difference but, with your permission may I refrain from saying mine as yet. You are the first to truly respond to a question, I would appreciate you and I giving time for others to participate.

11

I believe that there is an All.

Each potential outcome of each situation or change during each milisecond of all billions of years before and after the big bang – extend or branch off into our exochronic realm.

For this reason, everything is real and everything is true – somewhere, somehow, sometime.

~

Thyself is part of thy universe.
God is part of thy universe.
And thy universe is part of each.

Each being has freedoms. These should not be hated as if they were meant not to exist.

Blab.

12

Words simply don’t fit here for me but I will try.

I believe that God is why we are here. God is within us all if we choose to see him. If not, we will not be judged or be forgotten. He (no pronoun for me actually applies here) is another way (or name) of expressing the love that we feel, the good that we share, and nature’s beauty surrounding us. God is love. Love is God. He is our potential and guides our way if we choose the path of God (love). God is the miracle of our birth and the authentic part of ourselves that only we know. Love is our purpose and our light to follow. Religion is man’s only way to explain the unexplainable through stories, ritual, and prayer. But religion in and of itself is nothing if the light of this love is absent. I believe in Jesus’ Golden Rule and it keeps me on a good track even though people who are predators drag me down, make me forget its importance…

I am here in this world to love and to be loved. It is why I breathe and what makes me whole. This love is not beyond us but within us all. Some of us haven’t tapped into it yet and that is okay. But when we do, we know… You can see the light on the faces of those who have found it - just like the innocence of a child or sweetness of a puppy. Cynicism flies away, jealousy disappears, patience abounds, and living for other people and for the miraculous creatures around you becomes what feeds you. Because when you make it all about you, it isn’t about true *love at all.

*God

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p.s. God is such a buzzword that (to me) phrases like “the light,” or “God is love,” “praising him” “lifting up,” seem like platitudes from an evangelist. That, my dears, is why talking about it with words ruins it for me.

Praise the Lord.… :smiley:

14

If you’ll heed attension to what is invisible
Then during thy childhood
Or when near to the lover
One becomes closer to the creator.

This is because birth and meaningful-sex are close to the creation process.

Some things are so simple – they’d be ignored;
So vast, they’d never be comprehended, either.

15

Bessy and Dan,

Thankyou for your input it is great. It gives a base for me to understand your responses.

Is there a difference to you, between the words devout and devote per your beliefs. If so can you describe the difference? Please.

16

Well I can’t fault your aiming for respect for all in discussion. But my experience around here has been a little different. I wont beat around the bush in telling you what I think, but I don’t see that as being disrespectful and I don’t mind others being similarly blunt with me.

Ok, I’ll wait for your answer. It seems like it is important to you.

17

Everyone’s belief is quite personal, but I think mine is one I’ve never heard from anyone else before. God, to those pious individuals, means a being beyond ourselves who judges and watches. God, to me, is more like the force of tangible goodness that we all have within us.

The devout Christian would see me as an atheist or an agnostic, but the Jew or Buddhist would understand me better. I feel in my heart that Jesus would shake his head with the single-minded direction of Christianity. I believe whole heartedly that he was the son of God, just as I believe that I am a daughter of my God. Blasphemous to some, but this is my belief.

Devout=devoted to me. The devout person lives their life devoted to their God and religion. I am devoted to the love/God force that encompasses the earth. Different, but the same.

18

Dan writes

=D>

19

I have had the privledge to meet and know people from most religions
Learning their beliefs has always been interesting and a great honor and value to me.

The following explanations are in noway full or complete they are merely a type of summary. So please understand that.

Each person holds their reiligion different from even their fellows. No two people translate their religion the same.

Then there are what appears to be levels of belief also.

Devout, devoted, faithful, believers and then foxhole followers. And different degrees between all of those. Most humans seem to fall into the last three levels. the first two levels are the most interesting and complex allthough devoted seems more complex then devout.

Devout people don’t speak of having faith or having beliefs, for them it is as certain as breathing it is as much a part of who they are as is their soul and body. They don’t have faith, they know. Belief is reality beyond question. The way they speak of their religion is almost like they are explaining body functions to a child that should already know these things.And that explanations are being redundant. Sort of, it is hard to put into words how they do it.

Devoted have faith and belief they speak of beliefs and having faith, They are very religious, very strong followers and speak of their beliefs much more freely then the devout. Their religion is not a part of what they are but, it is held very close and very loved.

This is how I percieve devout and devoted

Both levels seem to take a special type of person or maybe personality.

Perhaps one is born and one is forged or perhaps life experiences create both. What do you think about this?

20

I wouldn’t use these terms exactly but I agree that there is a certainty of belief in some individuals that precludes any rational thought. I would put myself in this catagory. I don’t have any doubt that Christ is the only way and truth and that those who follow other gods are decieved. However, I often doubt my own ability to follow Christ which is a different matter ralated to practice rather than theology.

The problem for people like me is that is is very difficult to express your faith in terms that make any sense to a non-believer. It would be like going back in time and trying to explain a CD player to someone from medieval times. They just don’t have any frame of reference that would help discussion.

Why does religious devotion interest you so much if you yourself are not religious? Is it something that you would like to have or not?