Reply to Rule110 on Need to avoid pain

[f12hte]

f12hte wrote:I believe that there is one verifiable truth; above all else man needs to avoid pain and gain pleasure.

How do you justify this goal as a “needed” one? Why do we need to avoid pain? How do you go about verifying this need? Is it only humans that need this (I used “humans” instead of “man” because using “man” puts humans up on a pedestal that it doesn’t necessarily deserve to be up on; plus… what about women?)?

Well, Rule, some people really don’t like pain. Now, you might consider avoidance of pain a “nice to have” sort of thing. But for me it is an absolute necessity. When I am in emotional or physical pain, I just don’t function up to my full human potential (yes, human is a good idea here…thanks). Pain saps away life. So for me it is an evil to be avoided at all costs. But perhaps you are thinking of pain in a different definition of the word, like “No pain, no gain”. I would call that “effort” and effort is good. Effort, like variety, is just another “spice of life”. You needn’t answer this one Rule; everyone here (who is in their right mind) knows that your argument regarding pain is spurious.

And by the way, when you use the word “verifiable” in conjunction with “believe” it is no longer a “belief”; it is knowledge. Because as soon as you can verify it, you will know it to be true. Thats how science works. Start with a hypothesis, experiment, verify, conclude, collaborate, publish, repeat

Good point, Rule! But please understand that I hale from the back woods where we have a homey sort of expression for “I think” or “I posit”. We say things like “Well Jedadiah, I believe it’s a gonna rain.” or “I believe I’ll have me a beer.” In this usage, I’m sure that you can forgive using “believe” with “verifiable”.

[rule110]

My argument is not spurious because as you just admitted PAIN is not something that is bad necessarily because its part of effort.

What about suffering? Certainly suffering is needless and detrimental to a healthy mind and body.

Pain is nothing compared to suffering.

Feel better now that you singled me out for pointing out a semantical shortcoming of one of your points?

[Airex]

I love pain. I’m a masochist. I’m not complete without pain. In fact right now I’m sitting on thumbtacks, and shoving staples under my fingernails.

Of course this is a lie. However there are other people who do this.

[f12hte]

Rule,

My argument is not spurious because as you just admitted PAIN is not something that is bad necessarily because its part of effort.

Yes, it seems I got caught up in semantics. I agree with you that pain per our definition is not to be avoided. Hell, kids are a pain, but we do well to endure it in order to contribute the most we can to their upbringing. So then, if I say something like “above all else man desires to avoid suffering”, would you be amenable to that? Come on…you’re going to have to agree to something sooner of later, else you’ll lose your credibility.

[rule110]

@rule110

Certainly suffering is needless and detrimental to a healthy mind and body.

I’ve already said that suffering is bad, so, yes, I agree if that makes you happy.