First, a quick story. I have commited to a life of celebecy until marriage (for the most part) and don’t particularly care about other people’s belief on the topic. This isn’t to argue over my choice but more the choice as an idea. I’ve managed to come up with, what I think, is a solid argument against those who have sex for the following reason, which I hear oh so often:
I have hormones. My hormones cause me to want to have sex and because of that I should have sex (for the sole purpose of having fun).
So, now to my rebuttle:
Yes, hormones exist. Yes, they cause you to have sex. No, that doesn’t necesarily mean you should be having sex just for fun. (A little condescension as I mostly hear this from dumb people follows) Let me teach you a little something about evolution. The sole purpose of sex is to procreate and proliferate, as being one of our natural drives. Because of this, nature has naturally selected organisms which have sex more often and reproduce more often. Making sex feel good does indeed cause an organism to want to have sex more.
An example: Organism Bob has 2 children. One has been mutated to feel pleasure when having sex and the other one is normal. The mutated organism has sex with a female organism in accordance to the natural drive to extend life. The normal organism does the same, but there is a difference. The mutated organism realizes that the act he just did felt good and as such he wants to do it more often, which means more babies with this trait. The other organism only has sex the average amount of times for that particular organism and eventually the mutated organism’s children outnumber that of the regular one. Because the mutated children (the ones who have an orgasmic feeling when having sex) are more numerous they will outlive and take over the domain of the unmutated ones.
So, in conclusion, sex feels good so that we will procreate more. Havng fun just happens to be a side effect. So, no you aren’t being driven to have sex to have fun. You’re being driven to have sex to make babies. That’s it. Not having the babies is disrupting the natural order of things…(that’s just added spite).
Any comments? Don’t bash me too hard. I’m an amatuer at this sort of thing and just happened to get sick of people telling me I was wrong and felt like coming up with a decent rebuttle. Add to it, if you will. Amend it, even. Or argue it. Just needed to submit this to someone.
First off, what does mostly celibate mean? I thought that was a binary quality.
Also . . . so what? If we accept your argument that sex feels good because of evolution (true) we also can see no reason NOT to have sex and lots of it (good for our genes). Where is the argument against having wild sex all over the place? Just because it is an accident of evolution doesn’t reduce its truth. If someone is born into a wealthy family that can afford to send them to college, they shouldn’t reject going to college because their going is contigent on the arbitrary whims of fate.
I see your point. I suppose explaining myself further would require bringing in the aspect of religion in my decision, hence I think free sex is wrong. I don’t care if someone does it. One of my best friends does. I just needed something to tell people that I wasn’t wrong in saying, “I don’t want sex, protected or not.”
“So, in conclusion, sex feels good so that we will procreate more. Havng fun just happens to be a side effect. So, no you aren’t being driven to have sex to have fun.”
Technology makes sex for fun possible and being able to live in a well-developed community allows one to hide when things go wrong or feelings get hurt. You can go to a bar lie, get a girl into bed, and then run off to hide in another part of town. This would not have been possible in a village long ago.
So, sex is fun because it creates bonding between males and females and makes you think good thoughts about the other person. That makes child birth seem worth it to women and makes the kid seem good because it belongs to the male/female that makes you feel good.
Sex is much like the reason that you love your mom (if you got a nice one). She’s the person that fed you and looked after you the most, so she’s just great, and few forget their mom.
So, it could be argued that if you wait to have sex you will have a profound bonding experience, and will have a relationship that is undiluted.
Personally, I think that this is true only for people that aren’t curious. If you are the type that is attracted to a variety of different types of people then I believe that getting all of that out of your system will help you settle down with that one final person.
Logical support of celebecy until marriage:
Far less odds of getting STD. [including AIDS]
Less of a tendancy towards sexual greed/addiction.
Naturally more long term look at relationships between the sexes.
Logical support of promiscuity:
Pleasure.
Less mental stress [because not denying self of sex, but having a lot of sexual want is also stress…]?
Less desporation / inexperience whilst choosing marriage partner.
A more agressive / less prespressive mentality towards human bodies?
TheAdlerian also was touching on the matter of how our desires effect our opinions and judgments of others.
Human beings have natural desires and needs, but the ways that we can act upon our desire has A LOT of variety. Religion is basically methodology of action/belief.
Peter, send me a PM sometime and tell me about your religion more.
In other news:
One of my tracks from 2005 just got spun by Fred last night and the people went crazey. Somewere in Germany, on the 21st, hundreds of people were jammin to my own DnB. I will try to upload a picture of what the people looked like at the time, later on, once Fred’s pictures develop.
Wish me luck, maybe we will have a record deal sometime!
Why not just stick to the religious values then? I think that most people will respect that answer and be cool with it. One of my best friends is an incredibly devout muslim and I am a raging drunk atheist who loves bacon. We both respect each other fine, and we don’t try to push our ways on each other. Heck, he’s friends with mostly drunks, and it has never been a problem.
Sounds like you are/were much the same way with sex. There is nothing wrong about having a religious reason for (not) doing something as long as you don’t force it on anyone, nor is there anything shameful.
I’m aware. It’s just…well I really don’t know what it is. I hold it as a tenant not to preach to people, and I don’t. And I’ve never directly been told that my choice is wrong. I suppose I’m just looking for scientific fact in my choice…strange when it’s namely based on religion.
Well, I don’t think there is much else to say on this topic. Thanks for the support, I suppose. It’s nice to know that there are decent people in this world.
Well Peter, I gave you an explanation based in part on Behavioral terms. When you spread a stimulus across a wide range of sources the reaction that one gets to the sources becomes less intense.
There’s a fairly simple answer to that. Too much of a good thing makes it go bad. The longer version of that is as a source becomes more accustomed to something the feelings and emotions connected to it become more and more nullified. Once it’s something regularly done then it becomes something less “magical,” if you will.
As a stimulus (mutated baby) has more and more sex the good feeling will diminish. Is this trying to say that even the creature who enjoys sex will still only have just about as much sex as one that doesn’t because the feeling will eventually become…nothing?
Either I’m missing something, or this is grasping at an off topic point.
Hey man, there needn’t be the conflict between science/religion that exists right now. We need more people willing to meet in the middle, people like you.
“As a stimulus (mutated baby) has more and more sex the good feeling will diminish. Is this trying to say that even the creature who enjoys sex will still only have just about as much sex as one that doesn’t because the feeling will eventually become…nothing?”
Mutated baby:Ok, I have no idea what in the hell that meant!
Yes, I was trying to say to you that one argument for waiting to have sex is because it will be a significant bonding experience between you and your parnter. Meanwhile, and trust me on this, if you have had a lot of sex, then the 15th person won’t be much different from the 20th person, so partners become sort of disposable.
That is due to the spread of the pleasurable stimulus across a wide range of people. That is a scientific explanation.
Mutated baby was a reference to the original post in which Organism Bob had two children and one was mutated. Sorry,
I see what you’re getting at. It’s good that the guy telling the parable also walked the people through it. Otherwise messages get lost, or ignored. Thanks
im afraid not. the sole reason why your dna decided to invent the act of sex, and decided to make your genitals ‘feel good’ while doing it was purely for procreation.
your dna decided that, not you. your dna is a clump of molecules that doesnt even have a brain. it actually just fell together completely at random, so to say that it actually ‘decided’ (or that there is a ‘purpose’ behind the decision) is not really the right word.
the right term is ‘naturally selected’. “the shape of your body was naturally selected to make sex fun and feel good for the sole reason that that resulted in more kids who ate the resources and caused the extinction of those who did not have that shape”. your body didnt naturally select anything for any reason other than the fact that those things resulted in more succesfull children who caused the extinction of the previous evolutionary step.
thats what natural selection is. the sole reason why you have eyeballs, thumbs and a uvula is because those things eventually lead to more babies. the sole reason why your dick feels good instead of like nothing is because that will result in more kids.
the sole reason why your tongue tastes the sweetness of sugar is so that you can identify fruits which contain other valuable nutrients. when you eat candy, you are using your tongue for a purpose other than what natural selection selected it for.
who the hell cares what your body was naturally selected for? god?! fuck that, he didnt tell ME that he cares about whether or not i eat candy, he apparently just told some rube in a dress (who’s incomplete condemnation of this kind of behavior apparently suggests that he is in cahoots with the candy industry). so im gonna eat candy, listen to music and even have sex with my hand simply because my brain has decided that those things cause more good than bad. whether or not those pleasures were naturally selected solely for their pleasingness is irrelevant.
me using my brain to decide that the sweetness section of my tongue is good for both candy and fruit is EXACTLY the same as me deciding with my brain that sex is good for both pleasure and procreation. what my dna “decided” is irrelevant because it doesnt even have a brain.
so if you dont want to have sex because you dont want to do things unless their creation and specific use led to the greater success of one genetic line over previous iterations who didnt have that particular mutation, you pretty much are going to have to live exactly like a caveman. but they totally masturbate too so nature really isnt a good guide to Traditional, non-golden rule christianity.
Give up both celebacy and your dreams of having sex – and what you will have left over is natural balance. Be open about who you are and what you feel. Don’t repress or entice your sexuality.
^
That’s my advice. Go read some Dr.Phil to.
