Some Thoughts on God

Philosophy Forums Religion and Spirituality
101

I’m not sure who you are responding to. Your post comes after mine and has not quote.

My posts are not positing the nature of the universe. They are reactions to someone who showed no sympathy or empathy for someone experiencing things the way they are. Responses to posts that minimize and deny suffering. Who says things like adults cannot suffer, except, perhaps, some physical pain. I don’t think this cold-hearted and incorrect set of responses to someone who is suffering is something you would put forward or comes from scripture.

Oddly, this person who identifies as THE CREATOR, is reacting defensively to what is critical of his creation. This is mind-boggling in several ways, but the primary one I am focused on is the complete lack of empathy and victim blaming. And this from someone who believes our beliefs are all created by our experiences and no doubt many this person had as a child, just like the rest of us.

I realize that your post may have been a reaction to the very same person’s post(s), and not to mine.

102

I thought for a second I was reading a thread started by The_Emotion.

103

What are you even on about here now?

Children do NOT ‘struggle’ with cancer. They just ‘live with it’. Which, is unlike adult human beings.

If adults CHOOSE to live in particular places, then EXPECT the consequences, even the UNEXPECTED ones.

Again, children do NOT ‘suffer’ NOR ‘struggle’ with NORMAL Life and living occurrences (after all, they would NOT even have come to exist if those things did NOT happen and occur), only adults ‘suffer’ and ‘struggle’ with those AGAIN NORMAL and ACCEPTABLE Natural occurrences.

If ANY one ‘suffers’ with so-called ‘ageing’, then clearly there is NO recognition and acceptance of the irrefutable Truth of things.

And others can clearly recognise and see that ‘you’ are NOT wanting to have actual discusion to find out what is FULLY and ACTUALLY meant and being referred to, exactly, and that ‘you’, once again, preferred to rely on your OWN interpretations, inferences, pre/asummptions, and beliefs only and instead.

104

I’m not sure, perhaps both?

105

I too feel all the feelings. That still wouldnt absolve me of having set up the entire story in exactly this specific way.

Look.
All i can say is that the PR narrative of the christian god being loving, caring, and all that jazz, does not add up.
Not necessarily because of his fault, but a concept in this equation does not function the way we assume it does/should do.

Whether its the concept of love, the concept of god, the concept of creation, the concept of existence, the concept of… whatever, the list goes on and on.

There is a massive gap between what the christian god is advertised to be, and the way the universe looks, works and functions.
Why thats the case, i do not know.
I know only what i know of myself.
I can reenact the capacity of creation through artistic creation.
All i can tell from my standpoint that, if i become the writer of a story, if i create my own children with their own little personalities, based on which they would have their own choices and somewhat free will… then

a.) My responsibility for the entire reality they are in inevitably on me. All their faults, all their problems, all their designs, forms, shapes, EVERYTHING they are and face, is on ME.
Everything that IS, was created by ME, on a fundamental level.

b.) If i actually loved them… then i would not create a universe for them that looks like ours.
There is no way, under any understanding of the world “love”, i would create a f-ing universe for them, in which they need to competitively murder and eat eachother just to stay alive, while trying to outfuck their own extinction…
To associate this universe with love… sorry… thats ridiculous to me. This is not what the word love means which brings us back to the original point:

c.) Either we have the wrong definition/meaning of a word here, either love does not mean what we think it does, or our god is not loving in that sense.
Love is not absent from this universe, love exists here, thats why we can tell what it is in the first place… but this place was clearly not designed with that as a priority. Its just in the mix.

For everything else: I dont know. I am not the creator.
I only know, i only understand what i can deduce from my own stand point.

106

At this point I would just be repeating myself.

I’ll let you sit with what your mind seems satisfied with.

107

I cant do anything else but to repeat the problem and the question myself, since it remains unresolved. Though i assure you its the furthest thing from what my mind would be “SATISFIED” with.

What i laid out in front of you is an existential crisis way worse than what a clockwork universe and abandonment by god would create, so the idea that i am holding this position because it satisfies me is in a way very humorous in a very VERY dark sense.

108

Il Nulla is basically bringing up a version of the problem of evil including natural, not just moral evil, and why the state of things seems incompatible with a loving God.

anew’s response included blaming him for believing what he does and included telling him that adults don’t suffer, except perhaps some physical pain. He also said that his experience and position meant he does not care or love anything/one.

So, there we have anew’s way of responding to someone who is experiencing a world with suffering in it and who likely has suffered and watched others suffer.

So, we can learn a lot about at least an individual’s spiritual or religious belief system in the way they react to a person presenting the problem of evil (both types). Is the response compassionate or does it blame the person?

For theists, what do you think God would be most pleased as the reaction to someone presenting this issue, even in a philosophy forum?

109

I can’t speak for every theist, but I offered the responses I did with this question in mind.

When logic doesn’t work, it’s not a logic problem. You just let them handle it and shut up. Not in a position to do much else.

When I said the word “satisfied” I meant…that’s their way of handling it (if they are being genuine; either way, logic can’t mess with that). I did express empathy in previous replies, but. Empathy doesn’t go very far in resolving a logic problem (like when someone is sticking to a position for the sake of argument while disregarding the logic).

P.s. … sometimes … the “victim” IS the responsible. “Natural consequences” honors our dignity as responsible persons. Especially when we crash past all warnings.

110

Though I don’t think this is a logic problem.

Since this focus of Il Nulla started not many days of discussion have gone by. It seems to me that moving from a place where the incompatibility of a loving God with what a person is describing when they go into problem of evil type issues, could not possibly have major shifts in that time period without some kind of experience that countered what he has been experiencing, most likely much of his life.

What warnings do you think he has crashed past?

111

That wouldn’t change his experience. Maybe I should ask you for an example?

I wasn’t saying that was true in his (nulla’s) case. I would have to know what he’s actually experienced — and how much warning was actually given — how avoidable it was (on his part) — that is the issue for him.

I skimmed a lot from anewone because I tune out when s*** gets ridiculous.

112

Well, certainly anything in the religious type experiences. A sudden sense of the presence of God. But then also interactions with people, where something shines through and puts other experiences in perspective. In the short term, whatever it is would have to be a powerful experience, especially if its a one shot experience. Long term, shifts may happen with deepening relations to ______________________ and a number of things might make shifts there: nature, family, religious practices, psychological or somatic healing practices.

sure. I just mentioned it for contrast.

113

Noted. Thank you for clarifying.

114

The Blessed Trinity is so difficult to understand though we try to simplify It and maybe as simplified, it is the easiest way to understand it.

I do like referring to them as Creator(s), or original personhood… seeing as personhood is both gender- and quantity-neutral.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you here, but for me the Creator is the First Person, Jesus is the Second Person, or the Redeemer, and the Holy Spirit I believe is really the Spirit of Christ which came down at Pentecost.

I guess in a way one can think of Them as the Creator since they are really One God together.

See how difficult that is. It’s possible that when one tries to simplify something that is beyond simplification, it becomes much more difficult to understand…it just muddies the waters.

We seem to know so much about God, but really, what can we really know?

115

The Logos (Word) was with God (Father) and is God (Trinity) through whom everything was made that was made. The Spirit is referred to both as from the Son and from the Father. I could definitely just keep going with Scripture, but I also love studying it/them the way logic tracks it.

116

I have a personal god or divine nature that I call “genuine humble wholesomeness”

I hypnotize myself with the following suggestion;

“INTEND surrender to and be possessed and taught by and feel GenuineHumbleWholesomeness for all with appreciation, reverence, and devotion to karmic perfection;”

this is in line with;

(1) the law of attraction because of appreciation

(2) the power of intention

  1. the sudashana chakra; “wellbing with revernece and devotion”
  2. karmic perfection military; because what i hypnotize myself to intend will effect other people
  3. and my personal god possessing me and teaching me
117

Sid Virtuous (Sid…),

I have a reminder in my phone’s Reminders app set for every three hours (I skip the ones where I’m sleeping). It has changed since I first created it, and here is its current manifestation:

Pause to Refocus to the tripersonal Local Eternal/Global Joy Giver

We recognize & demonstrate the eternal (omega) NOW (alpha) when we talk to each other as equal partners (maintaining distinctness, autonomous identities, but moving together as of one mind/purpose), in mutual consent respect (willfully receptive of inexhaustible potential/fullness). “God is glorified in us when we are satisfied in him.” (Piper) Default/baseline/happy/grateful/loved/loving/blessed/joyful despite changing/demonstrating circumstances (always appropriate “response”—the most sensitive impassibility—anchored whyness). This is why (both?) faith (Luke 7:9) and “I do believe, Lord, help my unbelief” (Mark 6:6) baffle Jesus (he does/is why). James understands faith precedes (ontologically prior to) works (for beings subject to time), but is not absent of works/show/demonstration—sidenote: the omnipresent virtuoso (in space & time, but not subject to them) does not wait, but could not have made/held space for time (or time for space) — could not demonstrably BE (it’s about how you hold/present yourself) — if they lacked patience (or a sense of humor).

118

That concept that does not function is a concept of your own making and constructing.

If they do not function, then again this is because of your own doing.

If there is a gap massive or minute, then again this is because of your own doing.

Even though ‘you’ have been informed. But, again, if ‘you’ do not want to listen and hear, then that is of your own choice and doing.

Well, considering that ‘you’ are not able to answer the question, ‘Who am ‘I’?’ properly and Correctly, this says quite a lot here.

What is your point here, exactly?

Also, ‘you’ still do not yet learned,understood, and know the difference between the visible and the invisible and perfection, itself.

LOL ‘Love’ is another one of those words ‘you’ adult human beings, in the days when this is being written, cannot define, agree with, and accept. Along with, ‘Mind’, ‘God’, ‘soul’, ‘time’, and many others.

To most of ‘you’ people, those things do NOT mean what ‘you think’ they do.

If ‘you’ can really tell what ‘love’ is in the first place, then what is ‘love’, EXACTLY?

I AGREE wholeheartedly that ‘this place’ that ‘you’ adult human beings have created is CLEARLY NOT DESIGNED with ‘love’ as a priority. This is VERY BLATANTLY CLEAR and OBVIOUS.

And, ‘you’ are HOLDING ONTO ‘that stand point’ ABSOLUTELY and COMPLETELY. ‘you’ are NOT going to be swayed off of ‘that stand point’ no matter how much irrefutable proof is presented before you.

119

As the ABSOLUTE CLOSED say and confess.

AGAIN, here is another claim made about some imagined problem, but NO ‘actual problem’ is presented.

Due to ‘this one’s’ upbringing hitherto, ‘this one’ only feels “satisfied” and complete when it is feeling truly dissastified.

120

LOL Once again, claiming to bring up ‘a problem’ but NEVER bring up ANY ‘actual problem’ AT ALL.

When will ‘these people’ LEARN and UNDERSTAND what ‘a problem’ is, EXACTLY?

LOL Who else is there to so-call ‘blame’ for someone’s BELIEFS?

If an adult who HAS or HOLDS ‘the belief’ is NOT ‘the one’ who caused and created ‘the belief’, then who and/or what DID, EXACTLY?

I will also keep saying if adults are so-called ‘suffering’, then on just about every occassion this is because of their OWN doing, which again ALL OF comes from their Past Experiences, up to ‘NOW’.

This was agreed with and accepted.

OF COURSE there is ‘a world’ with suffering in it. Again, ‘this world with suffering’ in it IS ‘the world’ that ‘you’ adult human beings have created and are continually creating HERE.

I am NOT sure why ‘you’ are saying, “who likely has suffered”, when it is very clear and obvious EVERY child suffers in 'this greed, selfish, stressful, pollution-riddled, and war-torn world, which, again, adult human beings here have created and keep resurrecting if anyone wants to end it completely.

But, ‘we’ learn FAR MORE about ‘an individual’ who keep introducing red herrings and straw man, and who believe, ABSOLUTELY, that their own made-up assumptions and beliefs, based on their own misinterpretations, are the ONLY ones that are true and right, AS WELL.

Now, NO one has presented ANY ‘actual problem’ of ANY thing here.

And, LOL imagine ‘trying to’ NOT blame an adult human being for the beliefs they have CHOSEN to have and keep.

God would, OBVIOUSLY, expect adult human beings to at least be Open, Honest, and Want to change “themselves” for the better.

‘Trying to’ blame some one/thing else for one’s OWN thoughts, assumptions, or beliefs is just how Truly irresponsible some of them had become.