Not to sound too much like Future Man here, but i’m drunk and I was watching waking life and this idea popped into my head.
Ok, Think about evolution for a moment… we are now starting to see that the farther we progress into the change our species is constantly going through, we see that this same change is snowballing so fast that we are now starting to see evolutionary change within our own generation, and soon it will be even less. For example my cousin (I’ve said this in another post) is at the same level of playing video games as I am, but he’s 8 and I’m 20. We’re seeing these changes at a remarkable late, so my question to you guys is… where do you think we’re going to go from here? Because it will not be long before we move into the age where our evolution will be an instantaneous fulfullment of human will. That is remarkable power, and we must discuss this before we get to that stage.
Well his game skills only count if they make him a more attractive mate. It could be that his skills in that area keep him from doing well in school, thus resulting in a poor job, if any, and then he won’t mate at all.
Evolution is going on now, but it is most likely that we don’t know in what direction.
And as per usual, you two both contributed nothing of importance.
Guys! Ok I’m not mad, just… actually read what I’m saying for a second. Just pretend like I talk in absolute objective, semantically impenitrable paragraph so that my message actually gets through.
I know when you first read my message an idea stirred somewhere in the back of your brain, let that idea come forth. Yeah maybe I spelled a word wrong or whatever but you know what I’m talking about so please just actually consider what I’m talking about.
Evolution is starting to really take off, it’s speedin up so much that we’re probably going to see the most rapid change of recognizable characteristics than anyone before or after us.
With this newfound power over ourselves, how do you think we will react, if left untreated as of now?
I’m not sure if “evolution” is the best term to use, because it brings with it so much baggage.
Now you’re bringing in the whole human will part, and that sends mixed messages so that it’s hard to know what you’re actually meaning.
HOWEVER, even so, if we were to witness rapid change, or “evolutionary” change, so rapidly that we see it even within our own generations, we may understand it as a newfound power. And with great power, of course, comes great responsibility. In contrast to the traditionally slow evolution, this power wasn’t exactly there before.
Maybe with this newfound power, where people can really change themselves in a single generation, some emphasis might actually be taken away from children as they focus on their own growth. Traditionally, a person would be born, try to become great, miserably fail and thus become a philosopher, and hope that the next generation, children, would be better than them. But if people can physically change their body and abilities, it would be quite interesting how they go about doing things that they traditionally could not do. Would our minds and intellectual development actually take a backseat to physical development? Or maybe, could our minds evolve? Or maybe what we’re seeing and calling evolution of the body is actually evolution of the mind (concerning your example of how your cousin is better than you at videogames)?
On another point, addressing what you said about instant fulfillment of human will, I think that’s also sort of how we view technology, with the way that it’s evolving so rapidly and it lets us do so many radical things, and in essence fulfill our will. Because of this point, I’m actually quite pessimistic about how our bodies wil evolve in the future.
To evolve really means to adapt to some new set of circumstances. Let’s say that it becomes extra sunny on the planet and some people’s eyes start to grow sun blocking membranes. That’s evolution.
What you are talking about with games is an example of already evolved hand-eye and cognitive skills. It’s the same stuff used to be able to hunt effectively, so really it’s an old set of skills.
The way to imagine what is causing evolution is to think about what is killing the most people before they can procreate.
From what I understand AIDS is killing a lot of people in Africa. Now, if there is something special about the people that aren’t getting it then their genes will be passed on. It could be that superior planning skills help them to avoid it or they might be critical thinkers that disbelieve the “magical†explanations for the disease and so forth. Who knows.
It’s all about what kills you before you have a chance to breed.
First, evolution is random and without purpose. Certain changes may occur that gives an organism procreative or survival advantages and through that, a greater presence in the gene pool of that particular organism, but the rate of change is constant. Any ‘change of rate’ can only occur in environments with great amounts of instability or stress, where the stable or ‘normal’ organism is having difficulty surviving. In those environments successful mutations can thrive and present the illusion of ‘rapid’ evolution.
As Adlerian pointed out, there is a vast difference in learning how to apply new skills to old evolutionary traits, and the general course of actual evolutionary change.
It is true that adaptation in our world is occurring at an increasingly rapid pace, but adaptation isn’t necessarily evolution.
You guys are right, I shoulda been more precise when I was first talking about ‘evolution’… and to be honest I’m not really sure how I would label my version of it… yet
Yes! this is what I was getting at, it’s becoming a move from random physical evolution, to a more controlled cereberal change, one that we can sort of be aware of. For instance, video games -is- a reflection of practice and experience (my cousin could have practiced as much as I) but I don’t think it’s the case… because it never is, the younger generation is always ‘better’ in a way, we’ve never gone backwards before… so I doubt it’s happening right now. His generation will simply be more adept at hand eye coordination because our world demands it. The same goes for sports, I’m a varsity b-ball player and the local kids I see practicing are just so much better than my generation was at that age.
You can disagree with my theory of this ‘change/adaptation’ as being something that is increasing quite fast, but I’d like to hear your explantion. I don’t think this is a random thing at all, because technology demands our minds to think faster and to be capable of more operations per second, the fact is we are turning on the turbo when it comes to change from generation to generation, pretty soon that will reach a pinnacle… and I’m curious to know what that will be.
For instance I read an author, I forget his name who talks about technology inevitably leading to the creation of AI, be it as a combination of human thought and technology, or the birth of an original computer ‘mind’. He says this telescopic nature is impossible to avoid and that once you get caught up in it, essentially you’re there to stay (nature disaster might stop this, but we’re too curious not to invent things). So following this guy’s logic (I really wish I could remember his name) he says that eventually, this AI fuel to conquer information will elevate us/it to the level of God, where all information is known, and nothing is impossible to do. From there he postulated a bunch of stuff including like matrix like things.
I’m not saying this is overly likely, but it’s curious to wonder what type of things will result when the average Joe is capable of say… telekinesis and things like that, do we inevitably need to be locked away to our own minds for the good of the collective, or will this new found power also come with the moral backbone to support it?
If I may, I think what you’re talking about is adaptation, not evolution.
Consider: It may be true that each succeeding generation will develop better eye/hand coordination in specific skill areas, but that will only be in response to what they find in their pervasive environment. -ie- video gamers will make better fighter pilots. But if you ask these highly skilled people where milk comes from, they’ll tell you that milk comes from the grocery store. Ask any of them to wade into a tidal pool and spear a fish for dinner. You might go hungry. In short, we adapt to our environmental choices. The skills necessary to perform any task will improve over generations, but this is learned adaptation, and will only get ‘better’ as long as the original need survives.
That said, there are also very slow evolutionary changes that can affect our adaptability, but there is little consensus on what, if any changes have occurred in the last 100,000 years that can’t be attributed to other causes such as better nutrition, disease prevention, etc.
I think adaptation is the word that describes what you were looking at in your original post.
But who cares if they can’t spear a fish? I’m sure way way back some of the early humans were strong enough and had the bone density to you know… break wood with their forehead instead of inventing a cutting tool. My point is that evolution has pointed us in the direction of utilizing our minds, that’s why we’re so frail comapred to animals and early man. This is the key to my argument. If we look at technology as being parrallel to our ‘evolutionary’ level we see that this is really starting to get exponential. Yes, our bodies may look the same as they did 100,000 years ago… but our minds don’t. So if you want to call this adaptation, fine…but keep in mind we’re adapting to ourselves, technology isn’t some foreign thing, it comes from us. In a roundabout way we could consider it as a peripheral to our bodies.
Evolution is about passing on survival traits while others die that don’t have them. Whatever keeps people alive and procreating is what is being past on the the next generation.
So, what do you see as killing people before they can procreate as opposed those that don’t get killed in the same situation?
I don’t have an answer, so it’s not a debate. I’m just curious about what you think.
Perhaps we’ve crossed into a new evolutionary age wherein a lack of necessary traits does not kill you. In other words, when man had to hunt for his food to survive, those that were lacking didn’t eat enough and died. But nowadays, people lacking in intelligence, skills or even good looks will lead a considerably worse life, they won’t die… at least not right away. In a way money is now the game which is hunted. Those who lack the skills to get enough run the possibility of dying.
That’s all I could come up with right now… let me know what you think Ad
What the hell are you talking about? Evolution doesn’t “speed up”; that implies there is a destination (there isn’t). Variation from individual to individual isn’t even related to evolutionary change (per Gould). Whether or not a change makes one more attractive to a mate doesn’t either (unless you think sexual selection is important, Gould didn’t, E.O. Wilson does).
Your example is poor; video game skill is obviously a learned ability (or much more learned than innate, for damn sure).
Natural selection (if you like that concept) requires selection pressures to create change over time. Think of the changes you see in terms of selection pressures, if any.
You were watching that movie while drunk? Heh. Check this out…
One time my uncle, fantasizing about how cool it is that Pink Floyd’s Dark Side Of The Moon worked its way in so well with the Wizard Of Oz, wondered if any other Pink Floyd albums would work their way in with other movies. Sure enough, he theorized that Waking Life had a sense of flow and pulse to it that would enable a Pink Floyd album to coincide with the visuals. This album turned out to be Meddle. Although it is a relatively short album, we were both awestruck at how wonderfully well some scenes clicked with certain parts of the album, just like Wizard of Oz.
Okay, now back to your post…
I know what you mean. I recall hearing news reports about how girls are developing breasts sooner than they’re supposed to now. Such reports have been linked to growth hormones put in cattle which then is digested in hamburgers. There are other connections as well, but mainly the point being that “we are what we eat” makes more sense now than it ever did.
There are also other considerations, such as the changing enviroment we live in, as well as our activity habits.
I like to think of the Information Age being the cause of this. Think about it, when you were five years old, did you have high speed internet at your fingertips allowing you to obtain knowledge of just about anything you desired to know? The Information Age is the breakthrough for the next step which is happening as we speek - the youth today have more opportunities to learn more about the world around them than we did, allowing their minds to mature towards rational thought sooner than we did. Also, the growing exposition of violence, drugs, sex, etc. in the media and the internet forces our young to face these dark things of our world and in a sense, embrace them and mature from what they learn.
A wonderful question and an interesting proposition. When I approach questions like these, I like to think of movies like Akira and Donnie Darko - horrifying examples of what happens when the “power of a god” falls into the hands of those who would use it for the wrong purposes. However, assuming mankind reaches such a level of id-obtainment, we would have also perhaps developed a code of higher morality that superceeds our own and justifies a given course of action on the part of those with such increadible power.
There is one thing that is certain - with the evolution of man and the continuing obtainment of knowledge, so does the evolution of man’s view of the universe and how it functions. One could even say that the image of “god” is ever-so evolving as is the societal philosophical and moral norm.
I almost want to laugh at the others who did not take this thread seriously. I also wish Monooq would make a comment on this topic.
People don’t make seriously cause I’m new… don’t worry, the threads will always stay… and can be revived like this one was.
You nailed it bang on Sage… especially the part about our moral code being raised to a higher level. For instance traits known as ‘jealously’ or ‘greed’ could one day be considered as counter productive, much akin to driving the wrong way down a street.
“I want to hoard all my money instead of sharing what I have”
Will be met with strange looks and responses in this ‘new’ stage of evolution… people truly won’t understand this concept… much like how we look at the medievil times or something like that.
of course it could go the other way too… too much power and a corrupt chaotic society… it’s this intersection on our evolutionary path that I want to examine.
Must be something in the water, or beer.I was thinking about the same. So many singles and childless couples thriving on marketing driven false achivement. Are we building a culture of counterevolution?
Use of technology is making us powerfull but can we survive a catastrophy?
Do you know how to make your food? Can you go back to farm?
One bushman or inuit has more skills in that sence than a whole city.
Most of us don’t have the resources to survive a major earthquake.
We might be just a dead end of evolution like most major American civilizations.