Thank you God for deflecting the Leftist-Libtard-Demonrat bullet that was directed at Imperator Trump – I’ve wanted this government Oversight my entire life!
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LOL. The waste is paying clowns like Musk $8million per day.
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In a sense, people like Musk are extremely valuable. They are immediate proof that people are not equal. In proving that, all people are de facto no longer bound by the same morality. And that is great news for the free spirit.
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I like that he’s sending rockets to Mars and catching them in a basket while they land.
I like that all his hard-working employees are sending rockets to Mars and catching them in a basket while they land.
I dunno what Musk has to do with any of this. I know he signs the checks, but we’re talking about the actual people who do the Mars thing, who actually make it happen, right?
Lol i remember overhearing bosses showing pictures to home owner customers when trying to sales pitch: “… here’s one I built last year. Nice, iddint it?”
Fuckin guy had nothing to do with building that. Wasn’t even there. Driving around sonewhere on the phone.
The question is always, would they have done it without him hiring them to do it?
It’s not exactly the same as carpenting.
I feel like Im stating the obvious.
What a bunch of BS Prom… you sure as hell don’t act like the 1000+ sweatshop workers who built your Escalade “own” it. You own it, and you act like you own it. You sold out to Da Man…
Fuck me. One guy thinks human beings aren’t able to imagine new technologies and start producing them until somebody starts a business and hires them to do it, and the other thinks an Escalade is a means of production.
Musk is so important, so intelligent, that had he not started his own business, some other tech company would have hired him at computer programmer wages, and he’d be a nobody right now.
Question. If Mr. Ford invented the car (he didn’t but if he did)… shouldn’t we owe him for Musk’s success in the auto industry?
@ .promethean75 You’ve been spouting the hypothetical anarchist success story for decades without ever an example to back it up. It seems logical to you that groups without leaders spontaneously come up with technologies, yet that never seems to happen.
Leaderless groups of people are by and large pretty stupid. Try to win a football match without a coach, for example. Let the players decide. If that would work don’t you think it would’ve happened?
Your Stirner adherence is inconsistent with your group-of-workers idealism.
(This is still a response to the spaceX disagreement, where you claim Musk wasn’t needed, even though he started the company, suggesting that his workers would have spontaneously assembled if he hadn’t started the company. You then straw manned to claiming that I said individuals cant come up with things which is the opposite of what I said.)
Note that Im not denying that owners of companies often take credit for work of employees. I am questioning the idea that the SpaceX workers could, and specifically, would have achieved without Musk what SpaceX (of which Im not a great fan but thats not the point) has achieved with Musk.
Men must be Governed, Prom…
“I am questioning the idea that the SpaceX workers could, and specifically, would have achieved without Musk”
The Nietzschean-Randian argument: exceptional people benefit the group by being able to come up with things that the group isn’t smart or resourceful enough to come up with.
Points of contention: granting this, how should the exceptional be rewarded for this. Can there be too much reward (e.g., patents)?
The Marx-Vonhamsonshmidt argument: the major and most important advances in tech and industry happen in circumstances in which had person X not thought of Y, person Z or person M would have eventually thought of it instead.
However, under the mode of capitalist production and in circumstances that make private property (as means of production, not Escaldes) possible, when a revolutionary idea and product follows from the creative effort of its producer, that producer is able to hold both its design and the means to produce it as his own… when had he been two days late, someone else would have thought of it.
For example. Any one of Musk’s biggest employee brains would have likely come up with the same ideas as Musk had Musk never appeared. And yet these guys are making the tiniest fraction of money compared to what Musk makes.
Same goes for Bezos, Gates, Zuckerberg, et all.
It is only because of our reverence for capitalism that we deceive ourselves into attributing far too much credit to capitalism’s biggest players. It’s become like a glamour meme deep in the socioeconomic psyche of the human being. Mansions, space shuttles, the fuckin power these n*ggas have. It’s all so fuckin overblown.
But of course, an old construction worker who can hardly manage to operate windows is obviously gonna clown on the desk jockeys no matter how rich they are. So this whole joint is biased. No for real though. The wealth these guys have is obscene, dude. Don’t be a fuckin dingdong.
Ten cavemen are standing on the bank of a creek trying to figure out how to get across. One guy has the idea of chopping a tree down and letting it fall over the creek like a bridge, but he dies of a heart attack moments later.
How long, given the circumstances and the general intelligence level of this group, would it take for one of the other nine cavemen to think of chopping the tree down?
Even in such fields as physics, the theoretical environment the people are in brings about the same lines of reason, the same logical next step in the creation of a theory, in the minds of the physicists. So, had Einstein not discovered relativity, one of the other chaps would have.
Nothing is so bizarre that someone else wouldn’t almost immediately think of it given the homogenous nature of the environment they’re in; the data, the information, the idea, available to anyone, eventually becomes discovered by someone.
Capitalism is the cult of the first guy to think of something and the eternal celebrity that follows. It’s totally absurd.
If Musk is so great, why are there guys at SpaceX who are smarter than him and only making uh hunerd’ grand a year? Ah, now you see how stupid this whole economic arrangement is.
Yes, you belong to the school that holds that all humans are replaceable grunts.
Why did no one in all these years come up with the ideas of Tesla? The ones that gave free energy, that could peel the earth like an orange, the works that were burned/kept hidden?
Or say, in pop culture, why don’t ten thousands of white guys appear who rap just as good as Eminem?
By your logic they should.
But the human mind isn’t generic, and theoretical physics isn’t just deduction.
Further, your method is questionable;
- prom makes assumption (e.g. someone else would’ve)
- prom says; look what Ive proven! Someone else would’ve!
Simply not true; Elon Musk is also a brianic genius, same as many of the geniuses he hires. Even -IF- he has underlings smarter than him, you always miss the point of Execution. Just because somebody is smart and has great ideas, doesn’t mean they have the WILLPOWER to execute them, to make them into reality. That’s what ultimately separates CEOs from regular schlubs, also successful contracting businesses from solo-artists who want to buck the system.
The difference is Execution, doing the deals. Work is only ever secondary to that.
As for obscene wealth …you need obscene wealth to get into the Space Travel business. Shit costs a big dollar or two.
What are right wingers so fucking stupid?
The shooter was a Republican.
It’s almost as if right wing politics makes people allergic to the truth.
“The difference is Execution, doing the deals. Work is only ever secondary to that.”
You’re telling me a guy puts up a million dollars and makes three phone calls and that labor is infinitely more valuable than that of the employee workforce that will produce everything after that?
Bro. A guy on a factory line or a keyboard performs more labor than than that in five minutes.
So you need to explain what you mean with the term ‘work’ 'cause you don’t mean labor.
Also, you’re repeating the same nonsense I’ve called you on more times than i can count. This thing about how much is invested to start a business and how that always means the owner should be drawing profits. No. The moment the owner has generated more money than he spent starting the business, he can no longer use that excuse. He’s beem paid back. All profit following that point is surplus. Moreover, the owner becomes superfluous at that point: his investment (his labor) has already been returned, and now he generates profit from employee labor rather than labor himself (as he once did starting the business). Neither will he ‘run’ the business… or… if he does run the business, the skills required to run the business are commonplace among his workforce, i.e., any one of em could do it (managers, admins, etc). If that’s the case, either Musk makes too much doing skill set x or employee doesn’t make enough doing skill set x.
Do you understand wtf I’m sayin’, dude? I remember explaining this at least twice already. And I’ve yet to meet a pro-capitalist who can get out of it. I ask them to show me how the owner is relevant, and all they do is wiggle around.
Clearly, Musk doesn’t even need to be there. A ghost parasite sucking the blood of labor and stashing it as dead capital until he reinvests it.
Imagine you had a magic meter that could read happiness levels. You split all of Musk’s wealth up among his employees and then turn it on. The fucking thing would blow up.
This one fuckin guy with a trillion dollars sitting on a leather sofa with a so-so looking ‘life partner’. This is qualitatively better happiness than, say, fifty thousand people being able to buy a new car and pay off their mortgages?
The problem has never been about the stimulus to create and produce in a Marxist economy. That’s a straw herring or a red man. People wanna make shit no matter how you arrange and administrate them. The problem is about when and how much to produce as it is decided by the collectively owned and operated industries. What do we make next and how much of it do we make.
The freemarket isn’t faced with this problem because it’s an unplotted freeforall. You make x and try to sell it. If you do, you make more. Easy peasey.
I propose that to absolve this planned economy problem, industries must be divided into competing teams that hold their own capital and risk spending it on production. The market demand would be the same in this Marxist economy. That, like the stimulus to create, doesn’t change either.
But what happens to an industry ‘syndicate’ (let’s call em) when they are beat by a competitor (who produces more efficiently, or a better version of x) or spend all their capital with no profit? Hundreds and thousands of workers will be relatively fucked for a period… or at least broker than the other syndicates.
There you go. We won’t all be equal. Happy now?
Imagine a Marxist economy being a capitalist economy with whole syndicates as capitalist entities competing to dominate a market.
Incorrect, the shooter was a Far-Lefty, like you.