“I once saw a living bear made entirely out of glass. You could see his translucent organs moving inside of his glass hide. He had the most amazing bones. As he digested his food it became clearer and clearer. Even his excrement was clear as glass.â€
Why do we have the ability to lie? I hypothesize that our ability to lie is foundational to our ability to create. If we were limited to only tell the truth then we could never create anything. Everything we said would be a reflection of the world. We might make errors but we couldn’t create.
Our ability to lie is the foundation for creativity. Every story begins as a lie. “Once upon a time” clues us in that what we are about to hear is a big lie.
Entertainment is all just a bunch of lies. None of those stories ever happened. Sometime the best entertainment has the stories that seem as if they could have happened, but they still never did. It is not a fact it is a lie.
Can anyone thing of why else the ability to lie might be important? Or how lying is NOT foundational to creativity?
this is cool. I actually call it fictionalizing or narrating (simply enough). It was One of my more fun realizations in college. If you read Jorge Luis Borges and Critique of Pure Reason side by side, you will find that they both have about as much claim to truth status, ie there is no difference between a subtle and sophisticated blind argentine poet’s creative work and a Clockwork Hun’s creative work. all is fiction, or to be realyl post-modern-sexy-cool todo es pura ficcion, gueyes!
I’m not quite sure that creativity (imagination) is lying. Lying implies deception - whatever it’s purpose. Creativity is saying, "wouldn’t it be great if… Creativity is sometimes simply a different perspective. Remember looking at the world standing on your head when you were a child? The world is exactly the same, it just look’s different.
I can certainly agree that there is creative lying. Politics couldn’t exist otherwise.
Whitelotus,
Communication doesn’t necessarily include manipulation. An organism take’s in sensory data and may or may not act on it depending on need.
There are many forms of internal communication that do not result in manipulation. Very few daydreams are actualized, and that’s probably a good thing.
I am not trying to equate lying and creativity. I hypothesizing that lying is a prerequisite to creativity. It we lacked the ability to lie then we would also lack the ability to be creative.
Having a different perspective may also be a prerequisite to creativity. Or at least to higher quality creativity.
I agree. Art is the lie that knows itself as lie, and in that it is more honest than say, religion. Why else do we call it fiction? The lie is a necessary part of our lives. We say the word flower knowing that it has nothing to do with an actual flower. It is a signifier, a conception that is supposed to stand for thousands of flowers. In this way and countless other ways the lie is a necessary part of creativity and our very existence. When the elusive veil is lifted, what can possibly imbue our lives with any meaning? There is an Indian myth where a man goes to fetch some water and winds up stuck in Maya, or illusion.
I disagree that agreement is always the result of a manipulative process, after all, we may agree that 2+2=4; Does that make mathematics a manipulative process?
You’re equivocating between the two meanings of manipulation. Mathematics is more of a descriptive process. Art can be (e.g. naturalism), but the best art is more than description, it is catharsis, etc.
How about using the term illusion (or even delusion)? Using the term ‘lie’ typically carries a negative connotation with it. A lie is meant to deceive, usually for ill purposes. On the other hand, creating an illusion (as in a piece of art) can be a positive creative force. Granted, lies certainly use illusion, but not to lead one to a new vision, but to mislead. The intent is different and almost always negative.
I realize that the difference is subtle and appears small, but color’s creativity in ways I don’t think you intend.
Consider: “He’s lying.” Does this bring to you a picture of the artist at his canvas painting a new vision out of his imagination? Or, is it something seen in the interregation room at the police station?
I will admit that the term “lie†has a pejorative connotation. Maybe I am trying to reform the term “lie.â€
But does this sound better: “Without the ability to delude then we would lack the ability to create.†Its not quite as intense as lie, but still not quite…
There is a willing suspension of disbelief in listening to a story or watching a movie, or seeing a play.
Here is another way of expressing my core proposition: without the ability to pretend we would also lack the ability to create.
A person who takes everything literally would be uncreative. Only the person who can play pretend can be creative. Now we have the potential to use our ability to play pretend to deceive others. We can also use it to entertain others or to craft works that entertain others.
The con-man or con-artist is playing a game of pretend with you, only he knows it’s a game of pretend while you are taking him literally!
Pretend can be dangerous if we forget that we are only pretending. That might fit as a description of madness: forgetting that you are only playing pretend.
I think anyone can be an artist in the sense that an artist is a person who makes something well. So a man could be an artist at lying or an artist at painting pictures. Anything that is made well is a work of art.
OK. I’ll buy it now. I supect that that this all revolve’s around intent since, as you’ve pointed out, lying can be just as creative as painting a canvas. It’s all in what you’re doing with it.
I like your notation of “a willing suspension of disbelief” which is probably the most creative and destructive characteristic of humanity.
WhiteLotus: Mathematics is a lot of things. I was just pointing out that there is a difference between psychological manipulation and manipulation ala flipping beads on an abacus, but no matter, it is not an essential point.
Are you saying that you get a result that is not descriptive?
Explain how the manipulation between a man and woman does not belong to either one of them, This interests me.
Was it Tobias Dantzig that called mathematics the language of science? Two mathematicians can certainly understand one another. I recall Grace Hopper (One of the early computer developers and i believe she is where we get the word ‘bug’ from) getting lost and communicating with someone of another tongue via those little ascii symbols… An engineer’s drawing communicates very specific information, a lot of which is transmitted by number…
Lies, illusions, masks, maya… Whatever euphemistic mask (lying about lying, now there’s an example of recursion) you care to put on it, the fact remains that it is an essential part of life as anyone who has studied biology can tell you. Males seeking to display their wares to wary females, females deceptively coy, flies mimicking bees, animals mimicking more poisonous species, animals acting hurt to lure predators from their offspring, opossums acting dead. The animal kingdom is a veritable liar’s paradise.
I also like the point about suspension of disbelief. I think it may be the prime reason i somehow failed to enjoy, say, ‘Bruce Almighty’. ARTifice is important.
Now there’s a thought! Creative, in that it is required for a great many fictional stories, and destructive in the sense of hope being the last and most evil demon let out of Pandora’s box [I owe this insight about Pandora’s box to one of Camus’ essays]. You see your World collapsing about you despite your best efforts. You will be turned to dust in spite of all that you accomplish and a “willing suspension of disbelief” is the only thing that keeps you in the game. Right up there with Camus’ ‘absurd’ and the sense of the tragic in the ancient Greeks!
I think in every aspect of life there is truth, lies and creativity, just like there is the grey together with the black & white. Similarly, creativity is neither absolute truth nor an absolute lie but is something in between.
And tentative is right in saying that in lying ‘there is the clear intention to deceive.’ Whereas I think in creativity the only intent is to please. If lying was the basic foundation of creativity then NOT ONE person out there would enjoy that imaginative or creative art. Why? Because we can like exaggeration, imagination, differences, extremes, etc., but no one likes to be deceived. Any outcome out of deception I’m sure will never be welcomed by anyone because it would smell of deceit, but when the outcome arises from an intent to please ourself and others then many would welcome it no doubt.
Therefore, lying cannot be a “prerequisite to creativity.” In fact, the person who likes to lie I’m sure could not be creative because he uses people and their innocence to get whatever he wants in life whereas a creative person would not use people ever but things only.
However the ability to lie I’m sure could find use in saving someone’s life perhaps.
chuckle Everyday minor lying is not there to deceive but more to make yourself and perhaps the one you lie to as well, comfortable. For example: If I don’t want to give a ride to someone in my car even though I can I will refuse politely if I can, but if I can’t then I’ll lie. This kind of lying is not bad in my eyes because just because someone asked me for a favour DOES NOT MEAN I have to comply. I will see my convenience first and if I have to lie for that, it would be more because I did not want to offend the person who desired the favour from me and so I will make an excuse that will not hurt their feelings but will still be a lie. I’m sure even God will not mind this kind of lying. But lying to hurt someone and deliberately deceiving them for your own profit must be considered wrong. This latter lying if possible should be avoided but every once in a while lying that is essentially harmless should be ok.
I’m just curious how you can say that plants lie. How would you know that?
Beenajain. Surely you have said ‘good day’ to someone when you really didn’t mean it. Are not dreams comprised of lies which keep us going? The artist depicts reality as it could be and not as it is, this is a lie, but a beneficial lie which keeps humanity on the edge of it’s toes, ready to spring forward into life anew.
By what you said, didn’t you just prove that what I said was right? Which is that when your intention is not to hurt someone and you ensure someone will not be hurt, then lying is fine.
