ah-ah-ah-ah stayin’ alive, stayin’ alive: The Bee-Gees circ: somewhere in the 70’s.
:unamused:
Seems I over-estimated the communal attention-span/bored everyone rigid with the length of the previous post, so keeping it short and sweet:
[size=125]I’m proposing that the basic will is a will to hope.[/size]
Give me an example of human behavior and I’ll inject it with hope.
Fire away…
blanked
R.R.,
“How Deep is Your Love”?
Dunamis
Red Redemption wrote:
Hi Red,
What about suicide? I suppose the hope to be rid of this life as soon as possible qualifies as a hope (of sorts), but how does it jive with your thesis about “Staying Alive”?
Regards,
Michael
Well, any action hopes to produce a reaction or effect; so in that sense hope can never be removed from action.
Red, what do you have to say about the cynics?
Moved to Mundane Babble
Thanks for moving the thread, I was about to do it myself, I think I’ll stick to the shallows for a while as the big fish seem… toothy. 
At work at the moment - get back with some more extensive answers later.
To paraphrase Freud, sometimes bad music is just bad music. 
Btw. will to “hope” preceeds will to “be” (as espoused by the BeeGees and Schopenhauer) As long as there’s hope - self-extinction becomes a reasonable course of action.
Suicides: let’s take the romantic for example:
You’ve tried flowers- didn’t work, you’ve tried expensive (perhaps involving heavy debt) gifts and gestures - didn’t work, you phone compulsively/stalk/threaten her etc. Damage yourself - nothing works… What’s left, what’s the only hopeful action left - ahh… maybe she’ll cry at your funeral… maybe she’ll realise her only true love is dead…
You’re all smart people, you can work out scenarios for the other suicides yourselves.
I define “hope” as the expectation of the outcome of a chosen course of action as beneficial either directly to the subject involved or to his/her genetic kin/those for whom he/she feels close ties. Hope as an inherrent component of any action implies that the action itself “hopes”, rather than the executor.
Cynics (I)- assuming you refer to those subject to the adjective rather than the school of thought - I think people who are chronically and compulsively cynical have made an unforgivably immoral (or at least to themselves unacceptable) choice at some point in their pasts and rather than admit to the pure motives of others (which would imply the self-acceptance that they themselves are “bad” for their given definition) prefer, indeed, MUST believe that humanity as a whole is as iniquitous as they, rendering the choice they made acceptable, perhaps even inevitable, thus allowing them the hope of forgiveness.
Cynics (II)- Assuming you refer to Antisthenes’s bunch then I would say they chose to embed their subjective hope in the fact that no-one could render them unhappy (ardent cynics being matierially being on the lowest rung and having no political beliefs or health concerns) via theft, physical damage or arguement. By continually choosing inaction they preserve their hope that at least life will not get worse.
Historically were cynics ever known for altruism toward others…? Having fulfilled their (admittedly very low) expectations of life… and rejecting further personal gain did they preserve their hope by forming an early gift society…?
How deep is my love…?
(consults wife hurriedly)
Deep enough apparently. 
Unfortunately I like the Bee Gees. The original white-boy disco band in a time where that kind of thing was popular. It is only now in the post-rock n’ roll era that we laugh at Disco. If we lived back in the day, you bet yer ass we’d be wearing lapels and have big hair. Don’t try to deny it.
Watch, in the next few generations the current music will be obsolete, just like all previous fads, and real music like jazz fusion and progressive orchestra and/or rock will be re-established.
…or bust.
A big, toothy clown fish.
Red, I burned an incense for your response–Cynics I and Cynics II. Make that two.
[i]I believe in you
You know the door to my very soul
You’re the light in my deepest darkest hour
You’re my saviour when I fall
And you may not think
I care for you
When you know down inside
That I really do
And it’s me you need to show…
HOW DEEP IS YOUR LOVE?[/i]
consults self hurriedly—deep enough apparently
I love the smell of incense in the morning… Smells of… Victory 
Blackberry, raspberry, and vanilla incense.