There is a constant thread that run’s through all religions; that our ego, our I/me, our consciousness will survive death. Those of western religions will, in one way or another, find themselves before their creator to be judged, and then sent to heaven or hell. Those in eastern religions will be reincarnated over many lifetimes as they struggle to attain spiritual purity and attain their various versions of heaven. In all religions the survival of ego is either explicitly or tacitly implied.
Why is this? Is this just some form of wishful thinking? What do we ‘know’ that would suggest that there is something beyond our corporal death?
“In all religions the survival of ego is either explicitly or tacitly implied.”
Are you including all forms of Eastern religions, (and even the mysticisms of the West)? If so, don’t you think you are making a bit of a stretch? The anatta doctrine of Buddhism seems pretty much against this.
Of course there are exceptions. If one looks at the underlying cosmology of any of the religions, one finds only vague references to the possibility of a surviving ego, It is usually in later development - the what it means stage, that we begin seeing the assumed survival of ego. Consider The Tao Te Ching. Survival of ego isn’t even addressed. It isn’t even a question, but later in the development of attached religions the way becomes littered with ‘levels’ and all sorts of prescribed methodologies to obtain a vaguely expressed permanence.
“It isn’t even a question, but later in the development of attached religions the way becomes littered with ‘levels’ and all sorts of prescribed methodologies to obtain a vaguely expressed permanence.”
Would this not be due to the need to metaphorize and project, to manifest beliefs?
That’s where I was headed with this. It seems that we grasp the essential, confirm it, and then ignore it. One get’s the feeling that perhaps most (not all ) religions contain a desire, a need, to give the ego, the I/me, eternal life. A projection, indeed!
I don’t think it’s so much a matter of what we know, as it fitting a context. Something even deeper than the notion of afterlife in religion is the notion that physical matter is not the greatest, final, or most fundamental sort of ‘stuff’. The Universe is really about minds, or souls. The idea that minds or souls outlast matter fits nicely with this. In turn, I think these sorts of beliefs are only natural onsidering the human condition- ideas, emotions, and mental things just feel ‘closer’ to us than material objects.
I think it is more complicated than this. It can be conceived, under variants of anatta doctrine, that the personality, the structure of the ego is actually left behind through karmic deposits, that is physical, or even metaphysically conceived, structures, which have been reanimated by an incarnation at birth/inception. At death, the structural karmic deposits that are not worked through in dharma, are left behind only to be animated and made dharma by the next incarnation in birth. So in a way, the ego does remain, but not as a memory preserving entity that enters “heavenâ€, but rather as the material affects of spiritual endeavor. What “enters†heaven is actually the aspect of the animating force which is not the “egoâ€, not the karmic remains of each personhood. That the “ego†is imagined to be preserved, would only be a misplacement of the nature of its preservation. It is preserved, but on this plane, the plane of manifestation, through real and material consequence. Who you “areâ€, is actually part of a long lineage of karmic deposits, through many lifetimes; this particular manifestation of these deposits you simply overly identify with, assuming them to be you. When in fact you “are†that which animates them –indistinguishable from that which animates else-, as that karma which remains of “you†after your death, will be animated in some other way. Curiously, this places the burden of morality at a very high level. “You†have inherited the remains of lives once lived, and will pass onto others that which “you” do not address.
yes it’s completely wishful thinking… I’ve been thinking about what seperates us from the animals that express similiar emotions and similiar awareness of the world.
It’s true self awareness. We have the ability to stop and think about how something would affect someone else.
as for whether the ego survives? I don’t think much does survive on our transition. something does, because there’s an ethereal memory of something more.
Well, all the ‘particularness’ of nature seems to function within it’s nature. Only man has the capacity and willingness (hubris) to set themselves outside of nature and declare “I am”. That is duality. The path back to our true nature is indeed simple, but as the Tao recounts, “man delights in tortuous paths”
Uccisore,
We do seem to be more interested in our spiritual life than we are in material things. I do understand that we would desire the continuance of our unique consciousness. Even if I accept death of the corporal body, it’s inconceivable that “I” could cease to exist. There must be something beyond, but the question doesn’t go away,other than the infamous ‘leap of faith’, what is there to suggest an on-going consciousness?
Dunamis
I do like your explanation, it has a good ‘feel’ to it, but is there anything within this understanding that remove’s it from the sphere of speculation? Or, is it like other explanations that rely on belief, and that ‘leap of faith’?
Hey, MB,
I’m not sure what you mean by an “ethereal memory of something more.”
What is that, who has it, and how is it substantiated?
“but is there anything within this understanding that remove’s it from the sphere of speculation?”
It is the confluence of many streams of thought. Some of the least speculative would be the perspective that our personalities actually are cultural constructions, that much of what we assume to be us, really could also be explained as varying levels of archetypal and institutional forces acting through us (philosophically Althusser, Spinoza and even Jung may aid here). Because these trans-individual ideations really are the sum of so many lives lived before me, they do seem to operate in karmic-like deposits, the material consequence of those lives lived, and decisions made. One can also see how individual persons -their cultural residues- such as Elvis, or Lincoln, or whomever still have material effects upon our actions and conceptions, so in some way at least they can still be said to be living, in a material effects way. Then of course you have to step into other more speculative, but less theoretical conceptions, such as those offered by Buddhism or Hinduism, or even Theosophy to bridge those doctrines of the “soul” to a cultural, materialist conception of the Self. It is speculative, there are irreducible elements of faith to it, but it does have theoretical and perhaps measurable armature.
“I am”, in the objective sense, is not a statement of duality, it is the actualization of a triune reality. Of course, the average use of the phrase is just an expression of duality.
how do we substantiate it any more than genetic memory?
probably the best way to substantiate the ethereal memory is through the expansion of the ego through the suppression of the self.
The ethereal memory is the fiber beneath everything (god if you must) that interconnects everything. Most of the time we can go through life regardless of our belief set completely ignoring the fiber. we can propagate entire predjudices about others completely ignoring the fact that we are apart of others.
the ethereal memory is like a slipstream of knowledge that we can pull upon at any time, let’s say a good example of this is remote viewing the ability to see somewhere and sometime else. Another great example of this is dreaming of someplace and sometime you’ve never seen. Like one I had a few years ago, of living in inner city chicago during the 30’s. I’ve never been to chicago. yet my mind has intimate details of how it looks.
Another great example from another dream is a submarine tour of sunken los angeles.
Past-future lives? someone else’s lives? I don’t know the information eludes me.
surely you’ve had dreams of foretelling, my favorite one where I dreamt of sitting at a stoplight with my brother in the passenger seat and a black car pulled up beside us and I told my brother it was an undercover cop car.
then I woke up and that happened and it was … unsettling to say the least.
) religions contain a desire, a need, to give the ego, the I/me, eternal life. A projection, indeed!