Haha, i have mainly been just observing this board for a while now and I always figured that I would, at base, disagree with you immensely. I am glad to see that is not the case.
think of me as a time saving gnome… naa i just understand things well… i take the risk of trying to speak for joker in his absence. f.y.i nihilism isn’t that complicated .
because choices are thrust upon us with relatively good or bad outcomes, which is said to reflect success or failure… in a relative nutshell that is
No they shouldn’t but they do, like eat, drink and have sex. Most people don’t choose to desire those things but the “will to life” makes its so. If you want to do those things you have a responsibly to acquire them, they won’t just land on your lap. My main point is; why is limitless freedom better than partial freedom, which we have now?
Partial freedom is living a lie, under shackles and chains you willingly don for the self-proclaimed masters of the world.
What’s wrong with living a lie if your life is easier? I might be under shackles but I am provided for with health care and education. Without the shackles, I must go forth and have the responsibility to do these for myself. Surely this will require harder work, Why do I want that? I do willing don my shackles as I get a lot more in return, which is my point. I can’t see that I will be richer, more powerful or happier if there is limitless freedom. You may ask why do people want that? Maybe they don’t but I do.
Why is it bad? If you wish to give into the slave mentality, then there’s no way I can convince you out of it. You will either realize on your own eventually or never that the restraints of mental slavery limit your mind, body, and happiness. Nobody has stated that when you or others become free that the world implodes. Yes, that may be Joker’s ambition, but I’m not even sure what he means by the destruction of the world. A world of self-imposed willful motivators would be different and ‘destroy’ the world as we know it, but it doesn’t necessarily mean the world is going to change for the worse…
It may stay the same or become better, but that’s beside the point.
I could not disagree more. In fact I would say that opposite, that neither success nor failure exist, only that which is in between. Failure and success are relative and subjective human concepts that allow us to define everything in between as being closer to one or the other.
I would say the same for your idea of limitless freedom. No such thing. Nor is there complete determinism, but we can use these created concepts to define things that lie in between.
realunoriginal, ive already dealt with democritus in this matter extensivley~. that being said he is aware of the slave mentality and seems to have some unsaid secret that keeps him from minding…
“Ignorance is bliss.” -The Matrix
Also, this is lived by example for 1,000,000,000,000 people throughout history.
too bad its too late fr us smart ones 
I’m not sure it’s slave mentality as that is a reaction to oppression, it villainizes its oppressors. I am saying that being a master is best. If I had limitless freedom it would follow I have limitless responsibility. I would have to finance my own health care, organize someone to pick up my rubbish, someone to protect me, take care if my house burns down. surely being a slave is better, as these things are done by the master.
I said partial freedom is best, i.e I can think and do what I want with my free time, there are laws to stop me being exploited etc… With limitless freedom who would impose those laws? I would have to take care of that myself.
Doesn’t seem like happiness to me.
Wonderer, you’re a bigger a slave than I 
Just look at this link and see.
that is the most common defense. that i am simply villainizing people…
i have said multiple times that i don’t think the “masters” are at fault. this avenue is a fruitless objection.
there you go, that is your unsaid secret.
umm no… responsibility is the opposite of freedom. responsibility in this sense is only the moral kind, something which can be and IS ignored.
i’m restraining from laughter. who else pays for your health care? who else picks up your rubbish? who else protects you? who else helps you when your house burns down? the slaves. this is CLEARLY AND UNDENIABLY the job of the slave. all the slave. the slaves pay the mass taxes, the slaves do the work. the “master” simply believes that he shouldn’t have to do anything himself.
so we are simply gerbils who given real freedom will simply eat ourselves to death?
hardly… what about the exploitation of the proletariat.
presumably everyone can contribute to maintain peace…
says the master. “why is your happiness worth the unhappiness of hundreds?” answer this and i will leave ILP forever.
slave to what? morals? i direct you to the same link…
Wonderer,
I honestly don’t know what you’re talking about.
I am not talking about payment, I am talking about organizing it all, we do it as a collective. We are not free, in the UK to choose who picks up our rubbish or who will put out that fire if our house burns down. Hence we are not free. That is good.
I was not taliking about you at all.
Yes. Why else does the state exist?
That’s what I’m talking about.
I am not the master, I want to be a master but I am a slave because I don’t have enough balls. I am talking about the happiness of the hundreds. Only few people are masters on this board like Impenitent etc…
no, slave to the master. I understood you wanted tax based health care and education.
right and I’m saying capitalism is wrong, which you seem to contend. if you don’t than please recant everything you said in the capitalist snag thread.
you might as well be. if not i change my statement to it is instead of i am.
how can gerbils regulate themselves if the regulators are subject to the same gluttony as the rest
in what manner. instead of ambiguous side comments please make an assertion or two.
this board? masters? happiness of hundreds? drawing parallels of this board to real society is far from logical when those parallels involve things like inequality. on this site there are members and moderators. comparing a moderator to a master is folly. the moderator is more a slave than a master. trying to parallel that with society is foolish. the masters of our society don’t have to moderate anything but resistance. we are largely tricked into providing for the elite. the elite is tricked in thinking he deserves it.
if you want to call a moderator an elite thats your prerogative. i’m sure they will disagree with you on that point.
you called me a slave so the statement was in reference to your lack of care for the sufferings of people you don’t know.
I am neither a capitalist or socialist, I think they should be combined. That capitalist snag thread was about poor people not voting and thinking they need the “higher classes†to help. I said they have power and do not need help. I stand by that.
By passing laws which will be enforced by power of the group.
I was talking about his ideas; not the fact he/she is a mod. I admire the fact that he has enough balls to advocate pure freedom and is not afraid of it like me. That is the point of what I am saying. How can I not be scared of pure freedom?
I want to empower them and show that they can control their own life, how is that not caring? The “higher classes” won’t help as you seem to advocate, the poor must help themselves.
i suggest you re read the opening post in the capitalist snag thread. you are right, the poor do have power, and when they use it it will be much to the regret of the beheaded elites.
which the hungry gerbils cannot vote for because they are too hungry
with all do respect to Imp, balls dont make you a master, well i guess they do, but do balls make him right?
they only thing you show are their graves with your methods.
“the poor must help themselves” my argument is that the only way they can do this is through civil war, as i have said before, if this is what you are advocating than be quiet and let me try to find a better way.
i have said all along that the poor cannot help themselves. all you have replied with are shambly dreamful arguments like member of congress, voting, or education. all of which i have already demonstrated are unavailable to the poor.
deal with that argument and not opinionate your views of socialism, capitalism and anarchy.
I did reply; not with philosophy and abstract ideas but with poor people actually doing it. How is that dreamful? But you agree; being a slave is better?
what are you talking about man? all the “demonstrations” you have come up with i have proven inapt or impossible. thats how it’s dreamful.
being a slave is better? HELL NO! why should i slave more than i have to so some jerk can get his corns scraped? you dont make connections like money is universal, tieing things like food to cars, cars to entertainment, entertainment to civil service and all vice versa in all ways.
When the u.s exploits a foreign country, since some kids starve; that food out of starving kids mouths is used to feed the children of the u.s. Those well fed children now have time to build Ferrari’s instead of feeding themselves. Furthermore the guy who creates a Ferrari well never have to work again because masses will give large portions of their resources to him. once he has a bulk of resources the distribution amongst the non rich (the buyers) becomes more and more scarce. eventually it will degrade along with the economy of the country to a point where the distribution of wealth is so one sided, that masses are forced into necessary roles of greater servitude to sustain their needs of survival.
what word best describes a necessary role of greater servitude (labor, occupation, work, job,)? my answer, and i am not happy with it, is Slave.
i have no formal education in areas of politics besides sociology 101. any know it alls out there please correct me in my depiction