The Epistemic Communication Dilemma Why Infinite Consequences Require Perfect Communication My Personal Argument

[anew1]

@Acltalls

@anew1

But, again, you are absolutely free to believe absolutely otherwise.

I do believe otherwise because you are far too certain about your beliefs.

So, LOL, if ‘this one’ was around when ‘the one’ who was explaining and presenting ‘the proof’ that the earth revolves around the sun and not the other way around as the others were believing was the absolute truth, then ‘this one’ would be telling ‘that one’ that it would reject what ‘that one’ was saying because it believed, absolutely, otherwise, because ‘the one’ was so-called “far too certain about its beliefs or claims”.

LOL you make me laugh “acltalls”. When one claims to have ‘the proof’ you will not look at it, and just instantly reject it, because ‘they’ are far too certain about ‘their claims’ for you.

Which, in all Honesty, is absolutely ridiculous. But, it explains and shows, perfectly, why ‘these people’ took so, so long to ‘catch up’.

Imagine choosing to ‘believe otherwise’ just because another appears ‘far too certain’.

I have heard a lot of ‘excuses’ for why people choose to believe things that are completely untrue, but this one is a new one for me here.

@Acltalls

Anyone I have ever known to be genuinely correct about something at least engages with a topic with the understanding that they could be wrong because our beliefs tend to be as strong as they can be with our given information, but there could always be more information that is obtained.

But, ‘we’ are not discussing something I am necessarily wanting to learn, understand, or know more about.

Have you forgotten that I am ‘the one’ making ‘the claim’ because I claim to have ‘the proof’?

Why would ‘I’, like ‘the one’, claiming to KNOW that the earth revolves around the sun, want to have some sort of understanding that ‘we’ could be wrong, when ‘we’ say and claim that ‘we’ already have the ‘irrefutable proof’ for ‘our claims’?

@Acltalls

Any young person that claims to know the answer to the truth of the universe just sounds like they are pretentious and egotistical.

Why only ‘young people’?

[anew1]

@Acltalls

@anew1

Okay. But, you appear to have missed or misunderstood ‘the point’ I was making there.

Do you think that I am responding to the message you just said in a post that you have yet to post?

No…

[anew1]

@Acltalls

This is one of the flaws you have. This quote demonstrates that you do not understand implication. Why would you say that I am indoctrinated if it is not intended as some kind of attack on my person?

Because I am just pointing out a Fact. Which, by the way, you have already agreed with. That is why I said what I did, while not intending as a so-called ‘attack of “your” person’.

Could you have been presuming or misinterpreting Wrongly again here?

@Acltalls

Or as a way to defeat an argument?

I was just pointing out how easily and simply you people here can be and got indoctrinated.

I did this, contrary to what you believe, not to defeat any so-called ‘argument’ but to just point some thing out, here.

@Acltalls

I understand if you just see it as saying the truth in some way, but there are implications to what you say.

Okay.

@Acltalls

@anew1

So can you, right?

Another flaw of yours. Instead of actually responding to what I said, you ask a rherorical question. You do this often as a response instead of actually responding with something of substance.

But, there is not much at all of ‘substance’ in what you have been saying here in this thread.

I claim the Universe is infinite because of the ‘irrefutable proof’ that exists.

you want to just believe otherwise, because I appear too certain about ‘my claim’ here.

I claim that ‘space’ is in between and surrounds objects, and because this is what occurs, the Universe is infinite. Why do you believe, absolutely, that ‘this’ is not something of substance, exactly?

[anew1]

@Acltalls

@anew1

Again, you think or believe that ‘space’ just stops or ends, without physical objects.

I do not think or believe this. This is an example of something you have claimed to know that you are wrong about.

If you do not think nor believe this, then you ‘have to’ agree with and accept that ‘space’ goes on forever, or infinitely.

[anew1]

@Acltalls

@anew1

What you actually said was;

I hope you know that things do not have to match exactly word for word for them to have the same or similar meaning.

Okay.

@Acltalls

his is an example of one of your flaws where you need words to literally be the exact same or else the meaning somehow can not be the same, but just worded differently as I imagine you agree that there are such things as synonyms.

If this is what you really want to believe is absolutely true, then okay.

[Acltalls]

@anew1

So, LOL, if ‘this one’ was around when ‘the one’ who was explaining and presenting ‘the proof’ that the earth revolves around the sun and not the other way around as the others were believing was the absolute truth, then ‘this one’ would be telling ‘that one’ that it would reject what ‘that one’ was saying because it believed, absolutely, otherwise, because ‘the one’ was so-called “far too certain about its beliefs or claims”.

LOL you make me laugh “acltalls”. When one claims to have ‘the proof’ you will not look at it, and just instantly reject it, because ‘they’ are far too certain about ‘their claims’ for you.

Which, in all Honesty, is absolutely ridiculous. But, it explains and shows, perfectly, why ‘these people’ took so, so long to ‘catch up’.

Imagine choosing to ‘believe otherwise’ just because another appears ‘far too certain’.

I have heard a lot of ‘excuses’ for why people choose to believe things that are completely untrue, but this one is a new one for me here.

Just think of all of the different people throughout history who have claimed something with absolute certainty, only to be wrong. Those who were religious did it to Galileo. So why would I believe you or agree with you if you are doing the exact thing that some religious zealot would do? You are being exactly the same way that you likely hate when other’s do. Your level of certainty makes you seem unreasonable and your inability to actually be honest about the fact that you do not even read the full post before responding like I do, shows me that you do not care about whether or not you are engaging in a good faith argument. And no a good faith argument is not referring to religious faith.

[Acltalls]

@anew1

Why only ‘young people’?

Because from what I have gathered you are either young and zealot like in your beliefs due to being so young and not having been challenged by the world, or you are old and somehow survived long enough with such extreme beliefs and can somehow function with them. I lean towards you being young rather than old because I find it more depressing if you somehow have been alive a long time and are so closed minded and certain about how things work. You also seem to not know any philosophical arguments which means that you do not understand those you disagree with and only push your views with no care for opposing ones.

[anew1]

@Acltalls

@anew1

The ‘distance’ space goes on for, on the other side of the furthest objects, would have to go on forever or infinitely.

Why does it have to go on forever?

AGAIN, BECAUSE there is nothing that could stop it from going on forever, and infinitely.

@Acltalls

Just because you claim it must?

Well, name ONE thing that could stop it from going on forever, or infinitely.

Name just ONE thing. If you do not, then it MUST go on forever.

I will not use the ‘obvious’ word, because you have previously used ‘this’ as an excuse to not look at and just reject ‘an argument’ or claim.

@Acltalls

See this is what I mean by just stating that something has to be a certain way.

LOL, LOL, LOL

See how AGAIN it asks a question, does not wait for ‘the answer’, believes, absolutely, that is already KNOWS ‘the answer’, and carries on as though its OWN answer is the One and only true and right answer.

Which is extremely humorous to watch ‘play out’, especially considering what the actual Truth is, exactly.

AGAIN, the very reason why ‘space’ HAS TO GO ON FOREVER is because there is literally no thing that could stop it. Except, of course, the THING that I have already presented.

@Acltalls

Not only can you not substantiate why it has to go on forever beyond saying that that is how space works even though I disagree with the definition of space as distance,

1. I have NEVER said ti is because how ‘space’ works.
2. That you disagree with ‘a defintion’, which you acknowledged aligns with your views, and which you cannot improve on, means absolutely nothing at all here.

@Acltalls

but you also have not proven that infinity is possible which is necessary to say that something is infinite.

LOL, LOL, LOL

See, how many times I present something, which it cannot refute nor even just counter AT ALL, but still it cannot ‘see’ where the PROOF is, exaclty.

I have proven, beyond doubt, that the Universe, Itself, is not just possibly infinite but is actually infinite. And, cannot also be any other way.

you are just too blind and closed to see this Fact.

And, again, the reason why you are too blind and closed here is because of your presumptions and beliefs.

[Acltalls]

@anew1

If you do not think nor believe this, then you ‘have to’ agree with and accept that ‘space’ goes on forever, or infinitely.

No, like I said, I can refrain from judgment, meaning that I do not have to choose. Did you know that you can decide not to choose? I neither agree nor disagree. I understand that this may be difficult for you to understand, but I maintain neutrality on this. I do not have to accept anything especially when I judge it’s reasoning to not be sufficient enough to sway me towards believing it. Yes I am the judge of what is good enough to sway me for myself and myself alone. I do not claim to judge what is good enough for others, in case you might think this.

[anew1]

@Acltalls

@anew1

What ‘that body’ has experienced previously, hitherto, is the reason why ‘you’ are ‘the way’ ‘you’ are, and how and why ‘you’ think and do what ‘you’ think and do, exactly.

Yea no shit.

@Acltalls

Of course our experiences shape us as people.

@Acltalls

But you have not answered how I am the way I am, just why I am the way I am.

How ‘you’ are ‘the way’ you are is, again, because of what ‘that body’ has experienced, previously,

[Acltalls]

@anew1

How ‘you’ are ‘the way’ you are is, again, because of what ‘that body’ has experienced, previously,

This is meaningless to claim because it adds no new information about a person. You can say this about anybody and doesn’t demonstrate an understanding of an individual person.

[anew1]

@Acltalls

@anew1

LOL This post of its is the first time it has listed “my flaws” but LOL I had, already, somehow already dismissed, poorly, and rejected ‘these flaws’, which have only now been posted and presented.

Talk about presenting of an example of ‘living in one’s own head’.

I’ve discussed flaws of your’s previously, but another flaw of yours is the fact that you need me to say that they are flaws or else you cannot tell that I am criticizing you and pointing out flaws.

Why do ‘not’ just stay focused on ‘my words’ alone, here, only?

@Acltalls

I have to literally say that they are flaws or else you would not know because you cannot understand any meaning that is not literal.

If ‘this’ is what ‘you’ have chosen to believe is absolutely true, then okay.

@Acltalls

You should try and learn more about the function of communication and be more open to high context communication.

Okay.

But, ‘space’ cannot end unless there is a physical object. And, even if there is a physical object surrounding what you might perceive as ‘all of space’, there is ‘space’ on the ‘outside’ of that physical object, unless, of course, and again, that physical object went of forever, or infinitely, ‘outwards’.

Either way, everyone could agree with and accept that the Universe goes on forever, or infinitely.

[Acltalls]

@anew1

AGAIN, BECAUSE there is nothing that could stop it from going on forever, and infinitely.

Is there an infinite amount of space? Would this not just be nothingness then? But how can there be an infinite amount of nothing if it is not actually something more than just a concept for something that doesn’t actually exist?

[anew1]

@Acltalls

@anew1

Not necessarily so.

But, obviously, if what is being talked about is the entire Universe, and not just ‘a part’ of the whole Universe, then the one who has only been talking about a very, very minuscule part of the whole Universe, itself, has a very narrow or closed view.

You don’t seem to recognize that extrapolating information from a small amount of information and stating that the entire universe functions how one small part does is egotistical and cannot be proven.

But it has already been proved.

you just reject the irrefutable proof. Exactly like those who also had absolute beliefs. The ones who believed, absolutely, that the sun revolves around the earth also reject ‘the proof’ being presented that for ‘the claim’ that the earth revolves around the sun.

@Acltalls

But somehow I am narrow minded for not extrapolating to something that cannot be proven.

1. you can not be so-called “closed minded”.

2. Of course one is narrow or closed if they do not look at the whole Picture and only look at a very limited and narrow part of the whole.

   @Acltalls

   I hope you know that with how you argue, you would fail any philosophy class because you cannot engage with abstract topics without claiming to know everything.

Again, talking about not being able to engage with ‘abstract topics’ while also not being able to imagine ‘a concept’ beyond what can only be seen with the human eyes, is extremely funny to watch and observe you do here.

@Acltalls

Do you actually like philosophy or are you just here to push your views onto other people?

LOL Again, I just present ‘my claims’ here, and then WAIT for those with enough interest and curiosity to come along.

@Acltalls

Because you seem to hate any philosopher that has been mentioned.

If this is what really appears to you here, then okay.

[anew1]

@Acltalls

@anew1

ONCE MORE, there is NO such thing as a so-called ‘closed mind’.

Acltalls:

Another unproven claim. You keep saying that the mind is open, but in what way can the mind not be closed?

There are about three or four other things to be discussed and proved here before this one.

‘We’ have not yet finished discussing ‘my claim’ about ‘the proof’ for how and why the Universe is infinite.

@Acltalls

Is it because of your unsubstantiated proof of God that doesn’t consider almost any philosophical arguments for God besides your own made up list of properties?

No.

[anew1]

@Acltalls

You keep saying how the universe works is already known.

Okay.

@Acltalls

This is just your opinion as is what I am saying here.

If you say and believe so.

@Acltalls

You can only appeal to other people agreeing with you as can I to say that what we think is true because you have to rely on the information of others just as much as I do.

What makes you presume or believe this?

@Acltalls

You would know nothing of the universe without the information provided by scientists.

So, was it so-called “scientists” who provided ‘the information’, to me, that the Universe is infinite, and eternal, and could not be any other way?

@Acltalls

My main issue in the entire discussion is the unjustified certainty that you have for your claims.

But, ‘the proof’ has already completely and utterly ‘justified’ ‘my claim’, absolutely and certainly, or once and for all, if you prefer.

[Acltalls]

@anew1

2. That you disagree with ‘a defintion’, which you acknowledged aligns with your views, and which you cannot improve on, means absolutely nothing at all here.

This definition does not align with my views. I will be more specific than maybe I have before. To me, space is not distance at all. It is only the underlying physical realm as one could put it that allows for all physical objects to exist. Parts of it can have different properties than other parts of it. As in, an object can be at a point in space and not at another without contradicting anything. There is empty and filled space. This does not contradict that it is the underlying necessary concept that refers to what allows for physical objects to exist. Space is just an empty void, but when I am referring to space as some underlying physical fabric as I have before, I mean it more so as just a description of the concept we have for this thing that we observe. But all we observe is darkness that is filled with objects. This observation is the main reason why I call space nothingness, because we only have the concept of space because it is something that is not filled with any objects, yet we can observe objects taking up different locations in space, which gives me the concept of filled and empty space.

[Acltalls]

@anew1

Why do ‘not’ just stay focused on ‘my words’ alone, here, only?

Because I have the capacity to understand implications which means that there is more meaning attached to your words than the individual meaning of each word. There is the context in which you write as well as everything else you have said which forms an understanding of why people think they way they do. All people unless they are neurodivergent have the capacity to do this, so I understand if this social capacity is something you lack and therefore will always struggle to understand. You may genuinely be unable to think a certain way.

[anew1]

@Acltalls

Just think of all of the different people throughout history who have claimed something with absolute certainty, only to be wrong.

Okay, but why?

Does ‘me’ having ‘absolute certainty’ then mean that ‘I’ MUST BE Wrong here also?

@Acltalls

Those who were religious did it to Galileo.

It is good ‘we’ agree here.

@Acltalls

So why would I believe you or agree with you if you are doing the exact thing that some religious zealot would do?

Are you ‘trying to’ claim that “galileo” did not have ‘absolute certainty’ after it was also presented with the ‘irrefutable proof’?

@Acltalls

You are being exactly the same way that you likely hate when other’s do.

Okay.

@Acltalls

Your level of certainty makes you seem unreasonable and your inability to actually be honest about the fact that you do not even read the full post before responding like I do,

LOL

@Acltalls

shows me that you do not care about whether or not you are engaging in a good faith argument.

Okay.

@Acltalls

And no a good faith argument is not referring to religious faith.

Again, okay.

But, ‘space’ goes on forever, until, of course, when it ‘interacts’ with ‘objects’.

‘space’ is a part of the Universe.

Therefore, the Universe IS and MUST BE infinite, in size.

Which obviously no one could logically disagree with, nor refute.

[Acltalls]

@anew1

Again, talking about not being able to engage with ‘abstract topics’ while also not being able to imagine ‘a concept’ beyond what can only be seen with the human eyes, is extremely funny to watch and observe you do here.

I can imagine many things that cannot be seen with the human eye, but that does not mean that those things are real or have true meaning. Is a unicorn real just because you can imagine one?