I have learned 40 years ago (as it has been taught to me then) that the foundation of democracy, is the informed voter.
Today, i think this is 100% true, and also the reason why democracy is inevitably going to collapse.
Your thoughts?
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The collective ownership of the means of production is the only one you absolutely need to have a democrazy. If you don’t have that one, despite having a constitution and rights and all that shit, you still won’t have a democrazy. 'Cause if what influences and directs policy and economy is the interests of those who own the means of production, the voting of those who don’t own the means of production will be meaningless by proxy.
Now, of course, policy and economy may once in a while go in a good direction for the workers, but that’s just incidental and often at the expense of the government and its cronies spending money in unnecessary ways to fix something it and its capitalist cronies fucked up five minutes ago.
Naw, you gotta get the direct decision making power into the hands of those who run the factories and cubicles. That’s where all the shit that gets sold to the world is made, and therefore, that’s its economy. The guy in the executive office with his feet on the desk and Janice on his jock is not part of the economy. He’s a parasite in an economy that lives off it but doesn’t contribute to producing or sustaining it.
So yeah, you really gotta have like a superfast direct mandate worker’s counsel government with as few offices of representation as possible… meaning you gotta get the lower part of the pyramid a line straight to the top… you gotta get rid of the mass of unnecessary elected representatives in their respective branches. When you have all that shit you get special interests and shyster deals and lobbiests and all that. Power is too amorphous while being centralized at the same time as the final effect of the amorphous activities of the government. Its central direction is toward the interests of the biggest developers… but it’s not established until one wins out over the others. The workers have no say in any of this and participate only passively.
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Fro my point of view, democracy can have the same problems with any other system of governance: oligarchies take decisions for the majority, people feel trapped in a cycle of changing leaders but unchanged policies, money being concentrated at the hands of few, etc.
The advantages of democracy compared to the other systems are: a) The responsibility is collective, bad policies can be changed by voters and not by a “supreme leader”. This makes change of bad policy easier to be achieved (monarchs and dictators do not feel any need for change). b) The oligarchs that control the wealth or the power are replaceable, so they always have to keep some “good face” to retain their power. c) No violent revolution is required to remove a bad government.
Being informed citizen helps partially, but when the voting choices are bad, there is not too much you can do. Plus, rhetorics and manipulation are political weapons for every regime, and they are effective because they can trick even the most informed.
For @promethean75 : Democracy cannot guarantee that there will not be rich and poor classes with large difference between them. However, traditionally, middle class can easier prosper and remain independent in democracies. Monarchs and dictators hate independent middle class, because thinkers and informed criticizers usually come from it.
I focus on the “independent middle class”, because Nazi Germany also had middle class. Its members, though, had to obey Hitler’s commands in order to survive.
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Democracy is a fake mask of pretense and illusion to conceal the private interests of oligarchy.
There is nothing real about democracy at all yet the majority of idiots are lead to believe that their voting matters. It does not.
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If the state owns the means of production all that matters is having a state that represents the proletariat, working class, and majority of common people. The people are generally too dumb or ignorant to manage themselves.
All that is needed is a minority of enlightened individuals who are benevolent to care about the interests of a majority of people when a majority of people are incapable of taking care of themselves. It really is that simple.
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This is similar to Plato’s philosopher king. Confucius had also a similar idea.
The problem with that lies on the fact that the individual or individuals concentrate too much power. Historically, we have seen that such system of governance leads sooner or later to successors that are either delusional or highly corrupted. The successors of Marcus Aurelius in the Roman Empire is a good example.
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An Osho fan, huh?
I’m impressed.
The foundation of democracy is an invested, land (read: capital) owning class which is tied to any and everything that can bring the polity success and fortune.
What we have now is a miscarriage perpetrated by the same socialists who now rail against it.
Too late you whackos. This is the thing now.
Polity? We are so far away from that as ever could be, and merely an oligarchy that pretends to be a democracy. Essentially, we are returning to the feudalism we thought we were freed from, which is unfettered control of capital, exploitation of people without money or agency, and perversions of the ultimate degree.
The “whackos” are those who haven’t understood socialism from the outset and reduced Marx to the communist manifest, although his concerns were widespread, and what he warned would happen has largely come about. His socialism was an empowering force that was based on cooperation and closer to polity than anything we have seen.
The foundation of democracy is to condition political state power to the will of the statistical average citizen as closely as possible. That way you can at least attempt to ensure that political state power does not turn on its own people and generally reflects the will of the people. Remember it is the people who are the nation, not the government.
Democracy is not meant to be good or bad or to lead to better or worse outcomes. Why? Because the people can be retarded. As in the case right now in America, most of the citizens are retarded. Therefore they vote for retarded political leaders. That is normal and expected. This means the political leadership of the state is reflecting the stupidity and insanity of the people, as it should.
Eventually things will get so bad there is some kind of catastrophe or collapse, or the country is taken over by another country. Then democracy can at least in theory be setup again under a new situation and with a new citizenry, granted enough time has passed or enough demographic replacement has occurred. And then the whole project can start over again.
Enlightened dictatorship has always been the best and most effective way to organize society.
As long as the dictator acts on the behalf of his people its a very valid form of governance.
That being said, this is something that is not going to happen present day.
You are living currently in a world where the globalists are curb stomping democracy with both feet.
Everywhere they pay, pull, gather politicians regardless of left, right, center or green, and with that you arrive to present day europe where ideology or political direction no longer matters because the only distinguishing feature is whether the party in question is globalist, or is sovereign and acting on the behalf of their country and people.
And if its a party that acts on the behalf of it’s people, then the paid shills, the gobalists, the ngos, and the rest of the european union employ cordon sanitere.
Nobody gets to interact, comply, allow, enable, cooperate or anything else with the outlier trash that DARED to defy the supreme philosophy of Antonio Gramsci and went to look out for their own instead.
And to top it all off: The people who vote are actually. Completely. Fundamentally. Insurmountably mentally retarded.
Like in Hungary where people just voted in by 2/3 a dude who is a less fortunate and even more special version of Donald Tusk, the EU’s largest d sucker in east and central europe.
And in this climate, you bring up the idea of a small, enlightened group of people taking charge.
Yeah… not in this century. Maybe once we had a nuclear war and all thats left is a couple of hundred thousand survivors dreaming about rebuilding.
Yeah, the enlightened dictatorship governance always failed because of a successor that was not fit to fill the role, or outright abused it.
Which ofc spools back the entire footage to the starting problem of: We are incapable of transmitting, perpetuating, passing on experience. Only raw information in the form of history, which we all know by now that it does not do anything because nobody cares about it.
New generations are born into a system that solved the previous system’s issues.
So the new generation never experiences the previous system’s issues.
As a result they cannot appreciate the system which they were born in, and only see it’s down sides.
As a result yet again, they will inevitably destroy the system that solved the previous problems, making sure that the cycle will repeat and the previously solved issues will resurface down the line.
In a way this is the paradox of the perfect system.
Imagine making a government that solves all issues.
The moment it did, it has no reason to exist, because the problems were the reason it came to be.
So new generations of humans are born, and as always, the underinformed, inexperienced, unthinking trash that is the children, will reap the benefits of the system and then destroy it because they cant see, perceive, understand, comprehend, experience etc, the problems which would make them thankful for this system existing.
These are concepts which are way, WAY down the line.
Before there is capital, before there is production, before there is anything, there is a group of people that need to organize themselves according to a system and a set of values.
In the case of democracy, the system is the power, understanding, knowledge and harmony of the people.
Except, by today its obvious that the people are indeed mentally retarded and they cant fulfill even the most basic requirements of informed voting. Heck, in an ever increasing number of instances the people are starting to fail to as much as resemble a functional human being.
Cant read or write, has the knowledge and understanding of an 8 year old combined with the ego of a 4 year old, are so devoid of any content, depth and substance that they think genital preferences are their personality and defines who they are as a person, are physically incapable of rational and critical thought and only spew emotions…. and on and on and on it goes, etc etc etc.
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Western democracies will collapse one by one in the near future, benevolent dictatorships will intervene.
My future prediction model.
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Western democracies will collapse. That is at this point no question.
In fact, i dare say: We already have no democracy in europe. Only something that poses as one.
As for the future benevolent dictatorships: They can only surface when the current power structures, the globalist trash and their lackeys have dissolved, displaced, removed… whatever. Point being: At current date its impossible for society to naturally organize itself because its artificially and forcefully being changed.
And those who resist the change that is going on currently, are at best labeled extremists and banned, silenced, deprioritized, at worst hunted down, debanked, cordon sanitered or worse.
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International globalism will also collapse with said farcical western democracies.
I know it doesn’t seem like it now but it will happen. Overconfidence is a huge weakness of theirs to the point of being delusional.
You’ll see.
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Hahaha, well. I sincerely wish you to be right on that one.
I am not that optimistic. Sadly enough, the entire ESG/WEF stuff is not entirely stupid, they systematically destroy everything that is not theirs until food, water, medication, power, law and everything else is in their hands.
There is a reason these cockroaches and their buddies like (i.e.) Bill Gates are now the world’s largest land owners and that they are designing a food supply chain while destroying farmers across europe.
You WILL eat the bugs when thats the only thing they put in front of you.
But may you be right and may i be wrong.
I sincerely wish to be wrong on this one. As wrong as i can be.
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If they push the entire world too hard they’ll get human civilization collapse back into the stone age instead. Their technological transhumanism or technocracy equally delusional.
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This is part of the historical cycle:
"Hard times create strong men,
strong men create good times,
good times create weak men,
and weak men create hard times".
I believe that Western democracies are between the 3rd and 4th steps. Clearly, we have not yet reached the bottom of the 4th step.
The 14th century Arab scholar Ibn Khaldun analyzed extensively the history of various regions and noticed that long term good quality life make people lose their social sensitivities (group feeling) and operate more egotistically. This was, according to him, the main reason that strong kindoms/empires collapsed.
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On the 4 generational cycle:
Yes. In a nutshell this is very much the case and also the reason why i usually claim that the improvement of life standards is just as much poison as the lowering of them is.
This was the thing that made me realize that our reality is basically a gordian knot.
You will never be able to solve other people’s problems for them, neither physically, nor spiritually. Its all cluster f-ed into a system that wont even allow you to improve your life without creating cataclysmic repercussions down the line, and this is true on all levels, psychology, biology and sociology.
That being said:
I think that the major issue is the incapability of us to transfer knowledge and understanding.
At least in this particular issue.
Human beings prioritize their own experiences 99% of the time.
The proverb “smart people learn from other’s mistakes” is one of the most extra special capabilities there is for our species and holds only true for less than a percent of the population.
The overwhelming majority? Oh they will have to put their hand into the fire and stick the fork into the outlet before they’d believe that its bad for them.
And due to that, we cant even hope to teach our new generations the reasons we live the way we do.
Its just an inevitable automatic consequence that within 4 or so generations they simply sh-t and p-ss in their own nest and burn it down. Even before that, steadily abusing it to death because they need not to be held to the same “unc” “boomer” standards their parents had.
In fact, if you dare to hit your own child in many countries, you can be jailed for abuse.
And you can CLEARLY look at the consequence of all of it by now. Weak, pathologically insane, narcissistic trash which is incapable of rational or critical thought, and thinks that their personality is defined by what they like to do with their schlong.
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That is incorrect. Democracy was created and executed by a land owning class in rebellion against a dictatorship. It is, in fact, the first consideration. The question for every -cracy is who -crats.
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Correct but the point is not the cracy. The point is governance as a whole.
The way and values our species organize themselves around.
You are dropped on an island with 20 other people.
What are the first things that gonna be discussed and happen?
It aint gonna be land investments or who owns the production.
Your statement is correct, but its busying itself with modern day society that already presumes all kinds of structures being in place.
Talking about all the ~cracy is like talking about switching an operating system on your PC.
Yeah, its gonna be about who gets what and what level access to the hardware resources.
But… you know, there has to be a PC first. No?
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