The Fourteen Cosmological Arguments for the Existence of God

This has to do with the definition of the word “omnipotent”.

I think we can all agree that the meaning of the word “omnipotent” can be captured by the statement “being able to do anything”.

The question is: what does the word “anything” include?

Does the word “anything” include things such as “the creation of square-circles”? If so, nothing can be omnipotent, because nothing can “create square-circles”, given that the term “square-circles”, being a contradiction, has no meaning.

Similarly, one can ask, does the word “anything” include “the creation of things that are not caused?” If so, nothing can be omnipotent, because nothing can “create things that are not caused”, given that the statement “to create something that is not caused” means “to cause an uncaused thing”, which is a contradiction in terms and therefore without a meaning.

Is that how John defines the word “omnipotent”?

I think he clarified that what he means by the word is “being able to do anything that can be represented by a non-contradictory statement”. (Not his words but I think that’s pretty much what he means when he says “being able to do anything that is logically possible”.)

Define it the way you’re defining it and the word becomes meaningless.

EDIT:

Let’s put it another way.

The reason I can’t create square-circles is not because I am incapable but because the term “square-circles” is a contradictory one, and therefore, meaningless.

Similarly, the reason I can’t create things that are uncaused is not because I am incapable but because the statement “the creation of things that are uncaused” is a contradictory one, and therefore, meaningless.

If I say “Do lnmdlasudoiq!” you wouldn’t be able to do that thing, not because you’re incapable, but quite simply because I mean NOTHING when I say “lnmdlasudoiq”.

Magnus,

The point I’m making to John is that no possible being can create squares or circles. It not just about square circles.

Atheism is more mysterious than the “god-of-the-gaps / god-did-it “ explanation.

The Dichotomy of Existence in the OP puts it all together for you. What is more extensive than everythingness and God? That’s all there is, man. The whole enchilada. I gave you the answer to it all. I even threw in absolute nothingness as a bonus, and proved the existence of an intelligent God.

Atheism is more mysterious? Huh? Atheism is an idea. It’s included in everythingness.

You’ve shifted goal posts with almost every post of yours. I’ve leveled argument after argument against your OP and you just circularly refer back to your OP.

Your OP is nowhere near a “proof” of god until you address everyones arguments on the terms of those arguments.

John, what I see in you is a scared little boy.

Life sucks man!! It’s nice to think you know it all and can write it on a page and put it in your pocket.

Atheism is fucking HARD!!!

You just haven’t stepped out of that scared little boy yet, you haven’t actually started the heroes journey yet.

That’s why every time someone points out an inconsistency (if not a disproof) you don’t debate the argument on its own terms, terms that bring you outside your comfort zone, but just point back to your OP. Science and math don’t work that way John. Neither does logic.

I do not believe a pin prick deflates the OP. There is no 100% certain proof that a proof of God need be 100% certain.

I gave you the entire answer in #1. You really ought to appreciate it. Not everyday is reality so clearly explained.

John,

Silhouettes argument is that a perfect being must have a perfect argument for its existence (100%)…

That’s a really damning argument. God is not some human fucking court John. It’s god you’re talking about!

Silhouette never said this but implied it: if anyone disagrees with your argument, then you (declaring yourself god or gods bitch), proves your argument false that god has such a perfect argument for gods existence that no being in existence could or could want to disagree.

That’s Silhouette’s argument. Perfect. More perfect than your sky fairy!

And then there are my arguments!

Logic is uncaused. Logic is uncaused in God’s mind and inherent in God’s uncaused power to create physical reality. A perfect proof of God would therefore be the best proof logic is capable of providing. I gave that to you in OP #1.

I disagree. And thus you are refuted.

A perfect proof (and god is defined as perfect) is a proof that nobody would WANT to disagree with, even if they could without consequence.

And thus your OP is again refuted.

No, logic only allows the best proof logic allows. Logic doesn’t allow a proof that everyone must agree with - even the disingenuous.

That’s not logical. God is defined as a perfect being. Thus, the proof for god must be perfect. Unable to be denied by any possible being).

I’m arguing for silhouette because I think silhouette is too verbose to get the point across sometimes (sorry sil)

Logic is uncaused in God’s mind and uncaused inherent in physical reality. Therefore, the perfect argument is the best argument logic allows. You got that in #1.

Now, don’t make me repeat it.

You mean that a perfect being created spirits that can’t ever understand a perfect argument?

That’s what logic allows?!?!

No, the perfect argument is the best that logic allows.

You didn’t answer my question.

You mean a perfect being (creator of all) created beings (except you of course! You’re god!) that can’t understand a perfect argument?

John, I have to be perfectly honest with you… can you even see your own reflection here through another’s eyes. You’ve been given about 10 solid disproofs (actual ones) of your OP, and that inane post is the best you can muster for only this ONE disproof (not even the best disproof)?!

Yes, God created squirrels too! They don’t even speak English.

I’m quite certain that even a squirrel (or microbe for that matter - or plant!) can feel the presence of god if god were irrefutable.

I guess you would say that a rock should know God’s presence as well?

Actually John, this shows your ignorance here!

Yes, even, and definitely, most certainly a rock as well.

You’re a western Christian. You don’t know shit! Every native tribe in earth knows rocks have spirits.

I’m going to ad hom you here…

You’re just a stupid, stupid westerner.

Lol!