How is that relevant? What’s your point? Have women ever called the police or expressed a desire to look in people’s underwear in all the decades (over a hundred years in fact) that there have been women’s toilets and changing rooms? I’ve never heard of it happening. Have you? How would that affect women’s spaces? All you are doing is repeating a trope from transactivist propaganda. It’s really tedious. Gaslighting nonsense. You might even be able to dig up circumstances where a woman has attacked a woman in a women’s toilet. Feel free. It changes nothing. The only thing women are objecting to is the law saying that men can use women-only spaces and refusing to let them will get women in trouble with the law and could cost them a lot of money as it has a woman in Australia recently.
I wonder how many thousands of years we have went and lived without this problem existing.
Then the liberal insanity hits and now even women are eyeing eachother in suspicion.
Kinda reminds me of the soviet union.
Doesnt matter or who or what it is, just be always suspicious of everyone around you. You cant know who might report you and for what.
Funny how left leaning policies always end up like this in the end. Tho the gulags and piles of bodies are yet to come.
Also: Ideally the staff would check your identification, dont you think?
If this ever became an issue that needed checking, then the staff would be checking your ID for your biological sex.
And if you did circumvent the system you’d be taken away like any voyeur or wanna be changing room recording trashbag.
Yet with all of that aside.
I still do not know why trans people require others to affirm them.
Well technically i dont know a lot of things about this insanity, but why is 99.9% of society needs to sacrifice its own safety and privacy to accommodate the mental illness of 0.1%?
And when i refer to mental illness i do not mean transgenderism or genderdysphoria. I mean the pathological need for affirmation by others. Cause thats a separate mental illness.
That’s the context of literally the entire thread. If you don’t think it’s relevant, then you don’t have to participate. It’s not a requirement. That’s what we’re here talking about though.
That’s a stretch in this case. In this case the left leaning people would generally be saying DON’T bother someone in a bathroom just because you think they look a little masculine. Right?
You are the one trying to link it to men using women’s spaces. It’s really not complicated at all. The clue is the words ‘men’ and ‘women’. If men can legally use them then they no longer exist. That was made clear in the UK supreme court.
In the first place, we have this problem because of left leaning people. This is an issue that didnt exist for probably most if not the entirety of human history.
Past that, i still dont understand what purpose any of this serves. Why do trans people need to be crammed into either gender’s bathrooms? What purpose does that fill?
lol. It doesn’t create more people. It’s just about men staying out of women’s spaces and not encroaching on women’s rights. It’s not taking away anything from them.
First:
It doesnt create more people? What does that refer to? That gender doesnt exist in the first place so their categorization does not exist, only biological classification does?
Personally i think thats beside the point.
I dont care about anyone’s identity. They are free to regard themselves however they wish. In fact, self identification is a basic function of every self-aware living being. Aint my monkey, aint my circus. They can do whatever they want with it.
The issue is being generated solely from certain groups which wield actual, legislative powers, wanting to force the affirmation of these people on the rest of society.
Thats all.
The entire issue in the first place is not trans people. They are a group of nobodies who are doing their own little thing like homosexuals or any other niche group.
The problem has always been the assholes that take such niche groups and use them as a battering ram to create friction, strife and conflict, possibly for the sole purpose of getting more power for themselves.
These people are the actual problem within society. And these are people who for all intents and purposes should be all hunted down and given lethal injections for crimes against humanity.
Second: Yeah thats the typical kneejerk approach to anything related to men. They can handle it. If they cant then suck it up. And it didnt happen, and if it did then it was deserved and the rest of the shebang.
Women dont want men in their changing rooms, and men can do just fine without the average “schrödinger’s” feminist too that is simultaneously strong, independent and so empowered that they can enter the men’s changing room, but are so fragile, weak and victim that the first person who looks at them in a changing room gets arrested because its harassment or smth.
Sorry. This is the exact same shit as with trans people.
Feminism.
The notion that instead of treating all human beings as human beings, we gonna now apply different values based on sex.
Wanna know where the gender bullshit started?
Its right there with this feminist rhetoric bullshit that women’s and men’s rights are something different, competitive and whats being forwarded to one side, does not need to be forwarded to the other.
We are here only because feminism was the source, the first step that has sown this entire shait rhetoric and narrative.
When it comes to trans people, you are reaping now what feminism has sown.
Well if it’s a given that there are trans people in our society, they’re going to need to use the bathroom somewhere.
And the problem is what…? The use of toilets has always been decided by biological sex, not by looks or self-identification. A crossdressing male is still a male. They will have to use the male toilet.
There was never a time in history where laws, biology or anything else has applied on the basis of how one views themselves.
Just… just go ahead and unpack this logic in the practice.
Expand on it.
Try to envision it.
Play with it.
A police officer stops you and the breath analyzer lights on fire from your breath, but you shrug it off because you identify as sober.
You get ovary cancer but you tell the doctor that you identify as a man, so the cancer simply doesnt exist.
You walk into a house and take ownership it because you identify as the owner.
You gonna jump off of a roof because you identify as someone whom gravity disregards.
There is a point at which you should ask yourself what the shit does an individual’s subjective views of anything have to do with reality (or their denial of it).
Once you did, proceed to who and why are trying to force this objective insanity onto everyone as legislations and laws.
Because somewhere in here, this stops being about women’s rights, transgender’s rights, and it starts to be about the fundamental destruction of legal and social systems, not to mention logic, rationality, sanity and objective reality.
EDIT:
I do not seek conflict, i usually try to reach the solution which is beneficial for all.
Thats the only reason why i would be willing to think of a solution which benefits all, such as unisex bathrooms where everyone regardless of sex or gender has their privacy granted by separate stalls/rooms.
But when it comes to the fundamental nature of this issue, i have very extreme views about what is happening and why its happening. Why we are having this problem in the first place.
And the answer for that is not trans people.
Okay and enforced how? Did you see the video in the op? When you try to enforce that, you’re inevitably going to get it wrong sometimes. That’s something worth actually grappling with.
Enforced by already existing and perfectly valid laws.
Have you noticed the text of the video?
Thats a harassment lawsuit right there. Probably a stack of other charges too.
You are asking about this situation like its a brand new realization that you can accuse anyone of anything, you can call the cops on anyone, you can sue anyone for anything.
And?
What do you think happens next?
Oh thats right, because you made a false accusation, you harassed someone for no reason, you called the cops wrongfully, you are now the one who is going to get sued, charged, penalized.
I do not see your issue nor point. The system was perfectly self-regulating even before all of this.
That doesn’t seem like a very stable solution. Seems like you’re just playing roulette with bathroom accusations. See stubble, make an accusation. If you’re right, the police throw the man out of the restroom. If you’re wrong, you get sued for damages by a woman with stubble.
That might satisfy you but it doesn’t satisfy me.
It didnt need to be a very stable solution because the stability was achieved due to forcing everyone to tend with risk/reward calculations.
When society was less liberal and you could get seriously fucked over by creating drama, regardless of which side you happened to be on, everything worked much more efficiently and seamlessly.
Before the majority of society turned out to be mentally retarded due to all the freedoms of liberalism, with everyone believing themselves to be untouchable, unquestionable and becoming narcissistic psychopaths, most of these problems were resolved via common sense and simply by clearing the air and talking it out.
If you are looking for perfect solutions and perfect worlds im afraid you will die very unsatisfied and disappointed. Even before that, as we walk down this path as a society, you will be more, more and more disappointed because i know for a fact where we are headed and it aint gonna be a very happy place.
Wait until people start killing each other in the name of economic capitalism or even economic austerity.
Under capitalism we have already been killing in name of oil procurement for several decades.
Now there’s the theocratic matter of Zionism also killing people with largely capitalist support.
The Soviet Union was never that overt and blatant in the disregard of human life by comparison.
People? No. People have been doing almost nothing under capitalism. People have borderline no say in the entire matter, in anything. Who voted for wars? Who voted for immigration? Who voted for the WEF or the EU to take over the entire planet and decide for everyone what the future will look like? To own nothing and be happy? To eat the bugs? To potentially start up ww3 with russia?
I respectfully disagree. A system which made people turn on eachother, report eachother, make eachother vanish. A system that would rather punish 9 innocents than to let 1 guilty escape…
The soviets have had their upsides.
I wont argue there.
But it regarded human life about as much as the USA fucks did yesterday or the EU fucks do today.
And the people will keep on doing shit, and they wont be asked either.
Because back then as today, most people are braindead sheep. It just happens that in the past, most of them were at least self-aware enough to understand this.
Yes, I got AI to help me:
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1918–1922: The Red Terror
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1920–1921: Decossackization Campaign
- Estimated Deaths: 300,000 to 500,000
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1921–1922: Famine in Ukraine and the Volga Region - a created famine
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1924: Suppression of the August Uprising (Georgia)
- Estimated Deaths: 7,000 to 10,000 [1]
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1929–1933: Dekulakization Campaign
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1930–1933: Kazakh Famine (Asharshylyk)
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1932–1933: Holodomor (The Ukrainian Terror-Famine)
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1937–1938: The Great Purge (The Great Terror)
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1940: Katyn Massacre
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1941: NKVD Prisoner Massacres
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1944: Khaibakh Incident
- Estimated Deaths: 700+ Chechen civilians [1]
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1944: Forced Displacement of Chechens and Ingush (Operation Lentil)
- Estimated Deaths: 100,000 to 200,000 (during transit and exile) [1]
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1944: Forced Displacement of Crimean Tatars
- Estimated Deaths: 30,000 to 100,000 [1]
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1930–1956: Gulag Forced Labor Camp System
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1956: Suppression of the Hungarian Revolution
- Estimated Deaths: 2,500 to 3,000 [1]
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1979–1989: Soviet-Afghan War
- Estimated Deaths: 562,000 to 2,000,000 Afghan civilians [1]
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1990: Black January (Baku)
Then ‘disregard for human life’ opens up crimes beyond killings: incarceration for political beliefs or supposed political beliefs, putting people in mental hospitals for political beliefs, creating incredible distrust between citizens even between family members (The Stasi set up was most horrific and effective of these) gulag intentional starvation and exposure to extreme cold (the former leading to devastated bodies and but not always death, the latter leading to amputations), labeling people, including whole families with children, enemies of the people, leading to poverty and social isolation and worse, the banning of religion (including Buddhism in the 20s and 30s - they destroyed temples, went directly after Buddhist clergy, killed thousands of monks and punished practitioners, this included of course non-Russian countries in the Union), they banned minority languages - so, cultural destruction, internal exile and systematic torture by police and secret police.
Oh, jeez. This is off-topic. I just saw Mr. A’s post and responded. I won’t post more on this tangent.
Glorious imperial American economic capitalism since the end of World War II. Team America, Fuck Yeah!
Korean War
Estimated 2 million to 3 million Korean civilians killed.
Lebanon 1950s War
2000 Lebanese killed.
Vietnam War.
1 million to 2 million Vietnamese civilians killed.
Dominican civil war 1960s.
2000 Dominicans killed.
Lebanese civil war 1980s
50,000 Lebanese civilians killed.
Grenada 1980s
45 civilians killed.
Panama 1980s
300 civilians killed.
Persian Gulf War 1990s
3600 civilians killed.
Somalian civil war 1990s to present
400,000 civilians killed.
Bosnia
40,000 civilians killed.
Kosovo
10,700 civilians killed.
Iraq war
185,000 to 210,000 Iraqi civilians killed.
Afghanistan war
46,319 to 47,245 Afghan civilians killed.
Libyan War
5000 civilian Libyans killed.
Syrian war
580,000 to 656,000 total Syrians killed.
Gaza
72,938 Palestinians killed.
Iran
3400 Iranian civilians killed and counting.
It is just slightly off-topic unless Flannel wants to keep this specific and pointed at the question of who may use the bathrooms and how to decide on it.
Its loosely related to how we ended up with this issue in the first place, and its on an ideological basis.
Though its an extremely pointless endeavor to start analyzing which ideology killed and oppressed more. Thats just measuring the size of different heaps of feces. All of them are guilty of it, even if you have a most and a least.
Turning back however to @Flannel_Jesus last post and remark:
I do keep on wondering what would be a satisfactory response.
I said already that the common sense solution would be something that benefits and suits all such as the stalls for everyone approach.
But the longer i think about this the more this seems to me like the expectation of goin through life without being offended. I would appreciate an example of what a satisfying answer looks like because i get the sense that we are chasing perfect world solutions here. And those sadly do not exist.
The combined deaths of the Iraq Afghanistan war are way worse than these conservative estimates.
Ask an AI about the death toll but make it include after effects too such as destabilized peace keeping, lack of food and medical access… and you will get an estimate that is closer to 3-4 million.
These few hundred thousand estimates are always irking me because they are utter bullshit and are concentrated only on the deaths from direct conflict, never the fallout, never the consequences.
And with all of that being said, this topic and line of questioning still makes no difference, sense or has any merit or point. We are just comparing different size piles of feces.
What do you get from making the argument than someone else’s pile of shit does not reach their chin, only the middle of their neck?