What atheists have been doing for ten of thousands of years is utterly irrelevant to the question of the existence of God. What an atheist may or may not have done has no effect whatsoever on the truth of uncaused ultimate reality. That’s a total red herring argument.
Not really… God created them, so if the people who don’t believe in god are better practitioners of religion than those who claim to be from God, then maybe there’s something else going on here. Maybe you should start using your rational mind to work that out instead of your appeal to authority from the one above so you can get laid. I can easily Get laid by saying I’m in with the creator too… because women want to be rescued as damsels in distress. Interestingly enough, atheists don’t pull this bullshit on people. If you want to look at what a religious person should be, look no further than an atheist who knows themselves, they’ve set the standard throughout all of human history, honest people who sacrifice EVERYTHING for their honesty.
The uncaused ultimate reality was true before Earth even existed. So, yes, your argument is indeed a red herring.
The uncaused ultimate reality would mean that the earth was in Gods mind forever, which means it was never created, or it means that God created Gods first thought. I know you want so desperately for there to be a God John. My take on the situation is that there are higher beings, but no highest being, and I think higher beings are good. The simple nature of infinity suggests there’s no highest order, so that means there’s no reference frame. You just chalk it up to mystery, an atheist looks at this and says, “there’s no god”. I’ve seen a lot of weird shit in my life as have many people, so we do know there are higher energies working with us that are conscious, but that’s all we know, and to state otherwise is intellectual dishonesty.
Earth is both a thought in God’s mind, as well as an actual creation. The thoughts of God concerning what to create and what not to create are “the possible”. However, the actual creation of Earth is where God acts upon His thoughts using His power to create. So, the actual creation of Earth does not mean that the actual Earth has always existed. As for the thought of Earth in God’s mind, that’s beyond my pay grade and comprehension. Again, God’s mind is mysterious but nonetheless real.
I look at the arguments and see that an uncaused reality that cannot be materialistically deterministic nor randomly selective MUST BE REAL. That’s a real honest to goodness mystery. Even an atheist can admit to the mystery. Indeed, this mysterious force has God-like attributes. So, the atheist is simply putting blinders on - not the other way around. God is the better argument period.
There is no highest order of infinity John. Those aren’t blinders, those are facts.
Didn’t say there was a highest order of infinity.
However, there is that which must be REAL in order to distinguish infinity. That’s God.
Are you calling yourself and I God John? This has become juvenile now.
NO. I thought I already went through this with you. You and I do not have the power to create the material universe. Perhaps, I should amend my statement to say that “there is that which must be REAL in order to distinguish infinity for purposes of creating the material”.
Do we have the power to create anything?
We most definitely DO NOT have the power to create the material. We can change the form of and/or manipulate the material, but we can’t create the material.
So what can we create? Let me guess, we can’t create thoughts, but we have the power to change the form of or manipulate thoughts.
I want to move further, because I’ve caught you several times with proofs and you use another Goddiddit sentence… so lets move along and watch it again, your sacred “mystery”
Now you never chose to participate in the thread where I had “The HOME disproof of God” which i asked Only_Humean to change the title to in private message… This disproof is that every religion states that God is always trying to bring us home, and we all want to go home… since god is omnipotent, this should be no problem, so what’s with the drama? But let’s dig this argument into your sacred “mystery” argument. I want to know the answers to all mysteries, so why won’t God tell me? There’s an interesting thing that happens when you’re given answers to questions, it gives you power and it makes you bored, unless you’re the only one with the power, and you’re a psychopath, then you just treat everyone like stupid toys forever to amuse yourself.
So the question is why doesn’t God just give us all the answers if God wants us to join God and we want to join God? Why the mystery? Especially for earnest seekers?
Maybe the answer is that God is a mystery to God. Maybe it’s not even a complicated answer. Because an omnipotent being could clearly give us the mysteries solved with it’s will instantaneously. So why the drama? Do unto others as you’d have done unto you right? Maybe God wants eternal mysteries for God, so God blocks Gods own knowledge and our own knowledge with it’s omnipotence. Or however many number of ways you want to run the iterations of this idea.
The point is, God wants to bring us to God, based on every religion in the world, and the only way we can come to god is to have Gods knowledge of the mystery, which God can transfer to any of us, and still be the only omnipotent being in the universe. So we could have complete knowledge of everything, and God could still be your “prime set” and everyone is happy. Except, maybe the truth sucks, maybe that’s why god doesn’t want us to know it, or maybe god loses power if we’re given the truth. Either way, you have to admit that there’s no reason we should still have mysteries. It shouldn’t threaten the only omnipotent possible being according to you, in the entire cosmos to give us these answers and to give us the minds to comprehend these answers. Maybe god just likes stupid people who eternally keep trying to better themselves, maybe that’s the kind of shit God gets his kicks out of.
It kinda disproves jesus too, because jesus, at least in apocrophal texts was a major mystery asshole, we also know this from the Bible because of parable and allegory, It shouldn’t threaten God or jesus to tell us everything, they’re omnipotent… so what the fuck does it matter what we think of how they use that knowledge?
Ecmandu
Answers to what questions? If you are wondering how the mind of God works, you’ll never know because you can’t comprehend it because you are not God. God cannot make you God so that you could understand it, because God cannot create the uncaused which is God.
That’s bullshit and contradicts your own theory. You touted the “mystery” when I asked about whether god created Gods first thought. Since there is a “mover prime” in your theory, it doesn’t matter how much knowledge we have, it would still be the “mover prime”, even if that knowledge was complete. So the question I pose to you, is, why the drama of the mystery in the first place?
I said mysterious and incomprehensible.
You can’t understand the solution to the mystery, because you are not God and because God cannot make you God.
That’s bullshit. God could make us all omniscient and still be the prime mover… and we’d know the consequences of all our actions and all behave the same. You’re theory is flawed John, now you’re just grasping at straws.
You cannot be omniscient and not be God. There is no way God could make you omniscient, because God would have to make you God and God cannot make you God because God is uncaused and God cannot make the uncaused.
I am not grasping at straws in the least bit. I told you God was a better argument! LOL! Now, you might start to understand why… LOL! 
And that’s how you do it Lev. =)
I’m leaving these boards soon because I’m getting bored… but in case John missed this part.
Johns theory is that there’s only one prime mover… the POWER is different than the KNOWLEDGE, so actually there is no contradiction in Johns theory if an omnipotent God gave us all omniscience but not omnipotence. God would still be the prime mover and decider, and we’d all be Gods pawns in his grand scheme… but being omniscient, we’d know the consequences of our behavior, and nobody would ever do stupid shit, so we’d all basically act the same even though we weren’t the ones who created this all and make all the final decisions about what this creation is.
We went through a lot of disproofs there… suck it up John, you lost the debate. You have to in some way prove that God cannot separate knowledge from power.