THE MEANING OF FAITH

Philosophy Forums Religion and Spirituality
1

You are chained to a basement wall, and a burly man comes in front of you with an axe in hand.

The man brings to you a baby in a bassinet and throws a knife in your hand.

The time you have spent in starvation renders you far too weak to try and defend yourself with this knife.

The man says to you: “I give you a choice. Kill the baby and I let you free.”

Well, for one, you don’t know if his promise is kept. For another, why would you do this?

Whether you choose to do this or not is not my concern. However . . .

THIS is the meaning when we speak about FAITH!

WHAT types of psychological torment. WHAT types of promises. WHAT types of experience will DRIVE you to do other things? WHAT types of actions can you be DRIVEN into performing? And another way of asking this question is: HOW easily controlled ARE you? HOW much of a slave ARE you? WHAT do you have to PROVE to yourself that you are more than a puppet. That you are a sentient beyond control.

By masking faith or “loyalty” as a religious imperative that you obey your authority to matter what is one of many TOOLS to BLIND and CONTROL you.

With REAL FAITH (!!) this man and his axe HAVE NO POWER OVER YOU. And THAT is the meaning of faith. You command your SELF the CHOICE of whether to obey him or not. And YOUR DEATH is but one of many small, insignificant factors by which you make your decision. It is not the threat which COMMANDS your choices.

Have FAITH in God, and have FAITH in yoruself! For you are one and the same. Draw the LOVE of God to SELF through FAITH and you can ascend along the pillar of light. FAITH is your SALVATION.

It is this teaching that is most esoteric sounding and strange. But when you are READY, it is this teaching that will become the most LITERAL, tangible, and PHYSICAL piece of advice that you could really consider. When your time approaches, you will come back to this phrase, and you will realize how very REAL and technically physical its meaning was!

2

There was no ‘teaching’.
There was the above and some emo-rant about being controlled and being in some hypothetical situation for some reason, and this;

…makes absolutely no sense at all. It is gibberish.
So, it is certainly ‘safe’ from any critical examination’.

Instead of this “Great and Powerful Oz” act, would you simply care to explain what you mean by this? Whats all this ‘technically physical’ stuff about? Of course, there is a ‘safety’ in obscurity…
Come on, at least I’m making an attempt to understand what you are saying…
Thanx

3

If you’re convinced of this to be nonsensical- I’m in no position to argue you. It isn’t at all safe from your criticism. We’re all often vulnerable to all phrases, quite literally.

For us the truth is nothing less than what would feel “the great and powerful Oz.” That’s what makes it so difficult. What if you came back from the land of Oz, and spent years back at home. Wouldn’t you start to think that this whole Oz was nothing but a dream?

It certainly is emo. “What kind of lunatic actually believes this” exclaims your linear, logical mind as you see this. Without even a moment of hesitation. But believing this isn’t relevant. The problem doesn’t matter. Only the solution.

What is faith to you? I want to know your meaning.

4

I rarely use the word, but I equate it with ‘belief’. The greater the ‘belief’, the greater the faith. Where you find one, the other seems always nearby; “I ‘believe’ in the power of my mind / I have ‘faith’ in that power to ‘perform’!”
Thats about it, and seems to be how I perceive it used, generally, by others.
Nothing too unusual.
Peace

5

Reply to Nameless:

[b]Very true!

When making a philosophical statement or producing a philosophical argument, an individual will typically produce an argument that may bear one of two types of structure:

(1) The argument can involve disambiguous and easily grasped premises, terms, and conclusions----and as such deliberately makes itself vulnerable to rebuke through counter-logic. Or the argument is able to resist and stand firm against all counter-arguments due to the intrinsic logic locked within it’s premise and conclusion.

Or…

(2) A philosophical “argument” or statement may involve:

a. Half-hearted attempts at and unresearched statements of “fact”

b. Statements that cannot be supported by empirical evidence but are nevertheless stated with absolute certainty—as if all logically possible counterhypotheses are somehow absolutely and necessarily false despite absence of empirical knowledge that would settle the score

b.The “argument” is stated in “mumbo-jumbo” fashion in a pseudo-intellectual manner that is incomprehensible and obscure to the reader, and whose point is either scatterbrained or difficult if not impossible to make out at first reading. One will feel as if one is reading Lewis Carroll’s Jabberwocky.

Any good philosophical hypothesis and argument should be transparent, that is, everyone should effortlessly know and comprehend what’s going on and what is being proposed (what is being argued for or against) at first view.

Not finding that here with Pleiades’ “Jabberwocky” concerning the nature of faith.[/b]

Jay

6

Phenomenal graffiti . . .

Could your critique not at all apply to the modern legal codes of leading nations?

7

In all fairness, when philosophy swims in the chaotic waters of the undifferentiated potential and ‘Reality/Truth’ of metaphysics (“all areas of study reach ‘mysticism’ once any depth is reached.” -Richard Feynman), it becomes improbable to find evidence of your posited “good… hypothesis and argument”. One must energetically and interestedly and deliberately work to understand the meanings of the spoken words offered. All Perspectives are unique. Nothing so ‘easy’ and clearcut as you suggest.
A word is not a crystal, transparent and unchanged; it is the skin of a living thought and may vary greatly in color and content according to the circumstances and time in which it is used. -Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
I wonder if philosophy would be as much fun without the ‘challenge’. Philosophy is not a ‘comfortable’ pursuit; critical thought is not a ‘passive’ endeavor.
Peace

8

Reply to Namelesss:

[b]I can buy this. I particularly agree that we must energetically and interestedly work to understand the meanings of the spoken words offered: my argument is that there must be some middle ground or settled-upon definition of terms: if not, a meaningless and bottomless semantic argument ensues, and the central argument or point becomes hopelessly lost.

All perspectives are unique, but I think they must be expressed such that they become “easy” and “clearcut” in one’s understanding of the perspective so that one understands what the other is talking about. That the truth value of the perspective is not clear cut and simple is a given.

Good quote from Oliver Wendell Holmes (Jr.)

And no, philosophy would not be as fun without the challenge, but a basic comprehension of the point one is trying to make helps to get things off the ground.[/b]

Just a thought,
Jay M. Brewer

9

Faith, trust, belief. words so closely tied together.

Faith=hope
trust=acceptance
belief=faith and trust.

That is just my take on the three words.

10

Most definitely agreed! There must be ‘common ground’, and a ‘common’ language is a good start; simpler terms, more ‘mundane’ definitions and usages, etc… are good common ground. As the ‘critical thought’ reaches greater depth, the ‘mundane’ ‘decoheres’ into the ‘arcane’. Definitions, at this stage, become more difficult to conceive and convey, as subjective experience and understanding has more ‘meaning’ at these levels; Mind, Consciousness, Truth, Reality, existence, etc…

I attempt to make and keep things as simple to understand as possible. Sometimes, after a half century of diligent study of a particular ‘subject’, one has moved so far from the ‘mundane’ understandings that some common words must be ‘redefined’. I’m not sure of the ease or even the possibility of reducing a half century of thought and understanding, or a few millennia for that matter, into some ‘mundane’ thought patterns. The listener must work to find appropriate similarity within his experience/concepts with which to craft an understanding.
I’m not arguing your point of the need for ‘clarity’ whenever and however possible. Sometimes, there is no option but to ‘do the work’.

The ‘truth value’ of a Perspective, within the context of that Perspective, is always as ‘true’ as it appears to that Perspective. It is not for me to judge what can be ‘true’ for others. All Perspectives have the ‘truth value’, when compiled, of giving the most complete ‘picture’.

I think so…

Yup, there must be some common ground for communication to take place; the more, the better, such as an ‘empathic’ communication, which leaves absolutely no room for misinterpretation and misunderstanding.

Peace
*__-

11

I think faith is a state of openness & trust so I can agree with “FAITH is your SALVATION,” though I would not shout about it.

And I don’t understand how it’s meaning can be “technically physical,” or how it might aid in the fictional dilemma presented.

12

Faith is simple. It means belife and trust. Thats all.

I think belife can be good. Just look at success. It is far more likely that you will succeed if you belive in yourself, that you can do it. If you think you will fail you self profosise your failure, your motivation level will go down and you will not put your all into a task.
Trust can also be good, relationships do not work without trust, one must have some form of trust with ones partner or jealousy will rip the relationship apart.

Belife can also be bad, if we belive that we can fly and jump off a cliff, that is most likel;y going to be seriously detrimental to our health.
Trust likewise can be bad if we trust the wrong person with investing some money we may find that money gone, and the person we entrusted it with.

So faith can be good or bad, the beauty of faith is though, that it does not have to be blind, we can make an informed decision to belife or trust in someone, or something, just use your head, its called common sense.