The Miracle of Creation in DNA

The progress of science makes it clear that living beings have an extremely complex structure and an order too perfect to have come into
being by coincidence. This is evidence to the fact that living beings are created by an All-Powerful Creator with superior knowledge. Recently,
for instance, with the unravelling of the perfect structure in the human gene-which became a prominent issue due to the Genome Project-the
unique creation of God has once more been revealed for all to see.

harunyahya.com/books/science … racle1.php
miraclesofthequran.com/

That strikes me as rediculous. Just why can’t something complex be a result of natural processes? And why on Earth do you guys always offer a false dichotomy- either God made it or it was “random chance”? :confused:

dude, if you are going to quote the intelligent design theory, please kindly quote it off some real sites and not some 5th hand middle east half-interpretation. here :

intelligentdesignnetwork.org/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design
skepdic.com/intelligentdesign.html

The “perfect design” is a post hoc fallacy. There could be a more perfect design for a body however we do not know of one because we have not seen it. People may judge the current body to be perfect because this is the best that they know. None of this implies that it was designed.

Ahmetcelik,
A recent edition of New Scientist (9 Jul 05) (newscientist.com) addresses this very issue, giving reference to further resources. It seems we are still caught in this conundrum of an argument.
It is important to understand that the notions of evolution and creation are not necessarily mutually exclusive. To start, for all we know, there may be a god who “created”…“evolution” (if I were God that’s what I’d do…then sit back and interactively enjoy the show).
You might be interested to do a bit of research on “scientific philosophy”.
The philosophy of science is a fascinating arena, and asks questions such as: “what is science?” (sounds simple)
“what can science do?”
“what is the nature of scientific explanation?”
According to scientific philosophy, the justification of scientific explanations occurs on different levels, from the naive level to the more sophisticated. It is interesting to note that most of the controversial arguments between science and religion occur on the naive level. Followers of Science and Religion alike volley with naively justified arguments that would make a true philosopher cringe.
Philosophers of science such as Karl Popper devoted much energy to ensuring that scientific explanations remain reliable, even confounding us with gems like “a good theory is one which, in theory, can be proven wrong in practice” Meditate on that one and you’ll see it’s true.
Scientific philosophy also explores the nature of logic, which leads to some interesting extrapolations like “just because the prediction came true doesn’t mean the theory is correct” Scientists don’t like stuff like that. Even though they’re supposed to search for truth, many are just searching for a Nobel, or perhaps a dirty great big grant.
Not that the motives of many religious establishments are any purer, in their so-called search for truth.
A scientific explanation gains its credibility by possessing certain characteristics such as:
-Naturalistic. Must appeal to naturalistic properties, processes, entities etc. For example, when determining why it storms, one should explore the possible natural causes, before assuming SUPERnaturalistic causes, such as an annoyed deity.
-Not spatio-temporally restricted. eg It’s not really a “law” if it only works at certain points in space and time.
-Supports counter-factuals. Conditional/hypothetical claims with the pattern
“If X were to be the case, then Y would be the case” where X and Y have never happened.
-Causal. Identifies causes of an observation. Like 1. Why does the old metal ruler expand when hot? The heat CAUSES the expansion.
Big problems come here, as the reasons for why things happen continue down orders of causal magnitude…
2.Why does heat make the ruler expand? Because the ruler is metal and as far as we know, heat always makes anything metal expand.
3.Why does all metal expand with heat? Because certain elements behave in such a manner…and temperature does certain things to systems…
…etc etc until you reach a certain depth of understanding and can at this time go no further.
If you asked a quantum physicist why metallic substances behave the way they do he’d rant on about subatomic particles and probabilities and then say “the subatomic particles behave this way because…they always have”. When looking at such explanations, it seems as though science does not really explain, merely describe. It describes how and what, rather than explains why. Which is still really cool. But proving ultimate explanations are beyond both parties at the moment; when you reach quantum level, even scientists rely on their faiths. And who’s to say there isn’t some sentient entity, composing and shaping, at the bottom of it all, behind all that is.
It would explain a lot.
Then again, perhaps there is no end, like when you face two mirrors together. Each level of perception gets deeper and deeper infinitely and there is no ultimate reason why, or description of what. And this does not dispel the notion of God either.
So, as science and religion throw nonsensical arguments at each other, we might begin to ask “what’s really the issue?”
The battle for epistemological authority seems to be the driving force for both contenders. They both want to be the one EVERYONE goes to for answers. This is because, in this world, epistemological authority is the ultimate power. No wonder neither pole will give up. No wonder at the underhanded things both have done to try and preserve or enhance their status in the eyes of hoi polloi.
There should be no argument. Anyone who has studied any science, and not at least wondered about a God-like entity, suffers from some kind of blindness.
The order and complexity of life (and the closer you look the more complex it becomes) could stand as testimony to the intentions and ingenuity of a creator. How many times have you heard a scientist call DNA a blueprint? A map, a code, a plan, programming…sounds suspiciously like someone clever designed something.
But even those who assume divine design exists should not wish to prevent scientific exploration from delving as deep as it can. While this can make a mockery of many religious, orthodox explanations (eg thunder comes from pressure waves, not angry gods), the search for a deeper understanding leads to life enhancing enlightenments.
In medicine, for example, continuing research has enabled professionals to understand the body in ways never before known. New structures and biochemical pathways discovered mean treatments can be developed for previously incurable conditions.
So, while we should consider that God may well exist at the end of reason, or exist wherever he wants even if there is no final reason, we should still marvel as scientific revelations increase our understanding of our own astonishing existence.

S.

Facinating post Sazhure, and welocme to the forum.

I would agree with everything you said, except for, what I percieve, maybe incorrectly, as a bias towards the divine. Statements such as:

“And who’s to say there isn’t some sentient entity, composing and shaping, at the bottom of it all, behind all that is.
It would explain a lot.”

Though I agree that no one can say there isn’t, I do not think it would explain alot… I think it would leave us with the same question as before. Why is the world the way it is? Because of God… Seems like a great explenation, but, simply ask, why God? The complexities of this world can be explained by the divine, but whats going to explain the divine? If you merely suggest that it can be comfertabe to assign explenation to the supernatural, in that all the answers are not found in the natural, than sure, but we have no access to the supernatural, so any statement about what it is, what it looks like, what it does, is completely arbitrary. It might be a god, it might be 100 gods, it might be… anything imaginable. So its no explenation at all. Its merely an admital that the natural doesn’t have the answers.

“The order and complexity of life (and the closer you look the more complex it becomes) could stand as testimony to the intentions and ingenuity of a creator. How many times have you heard a scientist call DNA a blueprint? A map, a code, a plan, programming…sounds suspiciously like someone clever designed something.”

I fail to see the strength of the indications… This argument is used so commonly, yet I feel it is by far the weekest argument. I see absolutely no indications of a designer. I do not see why one would… If you could elaborate on how these aspects of our world are indicitive of a creator, than we can consider this.

Ok to respond to this in a respectful manner;

  1. It is held that just because a system or series is complex, this is not to be taken as an indeication of that it must be ordered.

  2. Indeed, it could be the case that the complexity of a system and our inability it fully understand it may be taken as good indications that the system is completely disordered. Essentailly this point runs on the notion that if I and no other human can recognize the order of a system, then it is senseless to talk about that system as ordered (for the term ‘order’ would have no meaning in the particular case).

  3. There is also some question about the idea of perfection as you use it in your post. Perfection is susually taken to be the property of that which is not is subject to change. A perfect circle, for instance, is a circle which is always a circle and always a circle in the same way; more specifically, a perfect circle is one which has 360 degrees, etc. However, you link the notion of perfection to DNA which is highly changable in both its actual physical configuration and in its general sense as scientific theory.

  4. Finally, I may bring up Russel’s point about coincidence and perfection. If I see a licence plater of a car with a certain configurartion of letters and numbers I may indeed say that this particular presentation is perfect. The series which constitutes the licence plate is immutable, and I can also lay claim to its existence. However, this perfection in no way functions as a proof toward the thesis that this licence plate is the product of anything other than chance occurence or random generation of signs. This point extends to your argument about the notion of a coincidence and all powerful creator.

_Rob