Abs in a magazine is an example of sexual objectification. Men have also been objectified as units of labor and/or money. That’s much less visual but not less real.
It’s a sweeping and prejudicial statement to make that men and women react to “objectification” differently. But even if we take that as correct, the fact remains that for the most part, historically and contemporaneously women has been the target of objectification far more than men.
Even in those magazines which you mentioned the portrayal is more aspirational than the creation of an object of sexual curiosity.
So given that male objectification of women has always outweighed that of men by women, and still does, I think it is a reasonable response to suggest that isa n answer to your questions. And that no more reasons need to offered.
You might as well ask, looking at most of the boyish responses to this thread, what are young males such wet pricks that they think so little of women.
In any event I don’t think the objectification is relevant, as I said above…
I doubt if the woman in the picture was not aware of the image being taken, and in the vast majority of images of “objectification” the woman is a willing participant. Women are nt stupid,m and whilst one section of women might have good reason for objecting (pun intended_, others are happy to cash in laughing and stupid men and their weakness for flesh.
I just this minute saw a TV ad starring Cherize Theron for some d’or purfume, for which she volunteered and was paid, no doubt, fuck-off sums of cash. I don’t see her complaining about objectification.
Some girl grabbed my ass, one time, when I was at a Cornell frat party. She was drunk as hell, but she did it. I didn’t mind. Another good question is why do women get mad when men grab their ass, but guys don’t when girls do it to them?
First of all, I do not consider myself to be a feminist…at least not a deliberately conscious one to the extent that perhaps some fanatic ( was in actuality was a fanatic) might/would be. For me, men ought to have the same rights equally as do women. If that made sense.
Okay, so, second of all, look, just your use of the term here "knockers, at least for me and I may be wrong, isn’t there a sense of objectication there? We’re talking about the aesthetics of bouncing breaths or at least breasts.
I suppose that under certain circumstances, breasts may be considered to be a “sublime display” of natural beauty but here though I do understand that the girl in question was fooling around - at the same time, she was objectifying herself and thereby giving men the freedom to objective her too. Why, because her bouncing breasts were the “main” focus of her and didn’t conjure up or speak of her in a way which would allow people to know her true essence. Beauty IS in the eyes of the beholder, as least insofar as what is considered to be 'sublime".
I may be wrong and totally off the wall here, but when someone allows something like this on the internet, how much inner value can she feel toward herself and how much self-protection for that matter? Sometimes a girl or woman will do something with total unawareness without actually realizing what she is doing - objectifying herself. Does she become an IT or a THOU?
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You are certainly barking up the wrong tree here, Erik. You have no idea about me, who I am and what makes me tick or how i think, in many ways. And please, pray tell, how do bouncing breasts on the world wide web nurture anyone, except for the imaginations of men or the women who need that sort of thing, get turned on by it? lol
I’m not anti-nature. I’m a woman and I’m a mother and I am totally in harmony with a woman nurturing. I have never once wished to be a man or to have a penis. I am woman, hear me Roar. lolYou may believe or disbelieve that. Many men are totally in harmony with nurturing. Just as many women these days go to war and go out to work. Are you in harmony with that!!!
If I didn’t know better, I would think that you were Interterrestial oh wait a minute - he is now wizard. Anyway, yes many feminists have believed this and let’s face it, wouldn’t you say that it is true? It’s been a patriarchal world from the word “go”. I do believe that gender roles HAVE served a purpose - they are and were important - but times have changed and they have too. We’ve reached the point where we have to put a square peg into a round hole, so to speak.
lol I also realize that sometimes men are attracted to busty females because it’s an unconscious leaning toward his mommy. And that’s the truth. I am not saying that a voluptuous woman with big breasts is not attractive. I’m straight but intellectually speaking, i can of course see this and understand how a man would be attracted to a volumptous woman unless he was attracted to one who wasn’t.
But I kind of think that your reasoning would be more or less unconscious in a man, don’t you think, Erik?
I would think that most men would find the below image of this more compelling both from an artistically aesthetic viewpoint and as you say, evolutionary standard. If you compare your 'bouncing breasts" with this, which would seem to have the most aesthetic value? Some times, things need to be compared.
There is no objectification that I would personally see in this work of art. It’s compelling as depicting both love and nurturing, aside from any philosophical discussion on it that might arise.
Well, was that your first thought? When you saw those bouncing breasts, did you feel the wonderful sense of cosmic duality and symmetry? Really?
I suppose that from the perspective of an extremely opportunistic man like yourself, they would be, right ?
But this begs the question and I’m serious here (that’s if, that could ever be real): Could you love and accept and protect this woman enough to want to spend time at the beach with her?
I don’t really see that as her allowing herself to be objectified. She’s an actress making a commercial and getting paid for it.
When someone is being objectified, at least from my standard, she’s/he’s devaluing him/herself and allowing others to do the same toward her.
It’s like someone saying - “Here look at me. This is who I am. This is the only Who I am.”
I’m not so sure that I would use the word “fear”.
But let’s face it, Erik. Women were for the most part second-class citizens, and even on a much-lower status, in the eyes of men for so long just as African American people were too.
What it comes down to is recognizing human value.
There are also men who do not want to be objectified either. It isn’t only in the realm of sexuality though I suppose it also encompasses that. Many men, just like women, do not want to be seen as objects or toys on the arm of a woman just as women do not want to be seen SOLELY in that way by men. Many men and women do not want to be seen SOLELY for their physical attributes but much more – even though it’s impossible for a man not to also see the human value and aesthetics of a beautiful woman and for the woman not to see the human value and aesthetics of a gorgeous guy. It’s like looking at a fine work of art but at the same time not to ignore but to remember that there is a human being behind the faces.
Lev, I think that a man can read a fashion magazine if he’s looking to improve his dressing well. That wouldn’t make him gay - at least to me I don’t think it would.
Men can definitely be objectified by women and by other men (especially gay men I suppose).
I don’t necessarily think that a male model in a fashion magazine is objectifying himself though. He’s a model, it’s his career and he’s in it to make money. Am I wrong?
I think that there are degrees of human beings objectifying themselves or being objectified. It isn’t a case of one size fits all.
Is it possible that a lot depends on intentionality? What was the intention of the girl with the bouncing breasts? To get attention from men, perhaps from both? Even just fooling around may have a unconscious subset of intention to it.
I’m not judging the girl - just her action and the reason for it. I might judge her parents or especially her father though that has caused her to come to this. This isn’t a case of morality for me here - unless you want to call de-valuating yourself as a case for morality. Its more a case of human aesthetics, one might say, or the aesthetics of self-awareness or the lack of it.
No, of course not. In and of themselves, breasts do not degrade women. They speak to who a woman is (universally speaking, that is). They can beautify the woman but it is the intention for which they are being USED that may or may not be seen as degrading. You can’t really even separate the breasts here from the whole woman - they are a part of her. But she is actually the one changing the focus to her breasts, for whatever reason, which does objectify her. I understand it’s all about personal perception.
This is probably a really poor analogy but if you are looking at a tree, you see the whole tree. When your focus falls to simply one branch of that tree, you don’t see the tree anymore - what you see is one part of it and it becomes the focus, the “object” so to speak. That branch becomes objectified in the sense where alone it can’t tell much about it. It’s the same with the girl in the image. She objectifies herself by putting her breasts right out there, in a sense.
lol That may not have made any sense at all but I know what I was trying to say.
Why do you think that you didn’t mind? I know that you said that you have a girlfriend. Would she have minded, do you think?
I think that women who DO get mad wouldn’t grab another man’s ass. If a man did that to me, he would be in danger. lol
It’s a question of seeing boundaries and respect. I would never do that to another man - at least not without asking first for permission. O/K
You are forgetting that you are not the only man in the universe, Erik. Just because it wouldn’t bother you, doesn’t mean that it wouldn’t bother other men - and who knows, it might bother these other men, even more so, because they realize that the woman needs to have more self-awareness and understand boundaries. Not all men feel that they are free-for-all kind of men or “up for grabs”.