People say if there is some evil in amoungst the good, it disproves a good god.
What about the problem of goodness? Why does anything good exist, if it is just random chaos and survival of the most poisonous, aggressive, long living, massively reproducing life forms? There is also the problem of order, because of the fine workings of universal law.
I believe I have seen many miracles. Not crazy stuff, but stuff that is so good, that there must be a higher good too. Who knows how high it reaches.
It is supposed to take millions of years for a new species to evolve.
It takes less years to either go extinct or mass reproduce and in doing such destroy the so-called ecosystem.
If evolution was real, things would have to all evolve together and evolve at a relatively similar pace.
There would be a super bacteria, maybe a super fish, etc. Which is everywhere, and out-preforms the other life.
Instead we live in a world of fragile beings. All kinds of things are in delicate balances.
A lot of people are hard core natural-material-evolutionists. It’s the popular intellectualism of the age.
They will most likely explain these questions away somehow.
I’m not posting to these people though, I am posting to ideal people.
Bacteria will consume what ever they can, and reproduce as much as possible. In less than millions of years a bacteria could fill the whole ocean where ever there was food.
I think the ecosystem is way more mysterious and non-darwin.
If random assembly were the source of new genes, there would most likely be 1% good new genes and 99% bad or useless new genes. Degeneration would definitely happen faster than evolution, if genes were subject to blind and random assembly.
Shit!
Well that rules me out… great another party i’m not invited to… You know what! screw you! I’m allot of fun, and you’d be lucky to have me!
Well fine! I’ll just take all my books containing humanities hard won knowledge and leave… You can keep your interpretive paintings and your games like pin the tail on the straw man… I never liked that game anyway… with the blindfolds and the people laughing at you… who needs that shit anyway!
I’ll have my own party and I won’t invite you! see how you like that!
Goodbye!
Problem of good disproves a god that’s actively evil, nothing more. I have a slight feeling that this is supposed to be an inverse of my thread .
If god is an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent creator of everything we can still judge him by his “creation”. And fact is, he created terrible evils even though he could have easily chosen not to. If you want to call him good, sure, but then you must have a very different definition of good from me and I guess that Hitler and Stalin would also fall under your definition of good. But then again, this is Problem of evil which is for my thread.
Problem of good and problem of evil together disprove any deity that would be relevant to us, although you didn’t really make much arguments for problem of good. You ask why good exists? As Richard Dawkins said:
This is not related to the problem of good in any way, but I’ll address it anyway. How do you know that the universe is finely tuned? 99.9999999…% of it is inhospitable towards lifeforms and with so much evil happening on earth and things like natural disasters and diseases I wouldn’t call it fine tuned. Besides, to call something finely tuned you’d have to compare it to something else, it doesn’t make sense to call our universe finely tuned when you don’t know how other universes are tuned, or even if they exist.
How much could we know about a person who designed a car, but only seeing the car and not the maker of it?
Also I must say, I am not trying to advocate creationism.
I’m just saying that darwinism is false.
We have both good and evil. Did you ever think that creative natural forces can be evil?
What ever happened to the idea that stars and planets are wonderful?
Depends on your knowledge of psychology. It’s much easier though when the creation encompasses a little bit more than one car . If you know that a person caused the deaths of over 100 million people, what would you think of that person? I think that we could safely say that the person is mad and evil, no? And god killed and let suffer BILLIONS. So yeah.
I didn’t say they aren’t. Besides, I don’t think we’re arguing aesthetics here.
Yeaaaah… and again you didn’t back up that assertion.
In the supposed million year time scale it would take to form a new species in the ecosystem, in that amount of time, an already existent species would have multiplied many times over, especially bacteria, and used up all the food sources and “space”. Also darwinism does not view cells as intelligent. They only make new informaion via “random mutation”. This is also false, because 99% of random sequences of dna or more, are not good or helpful. The rate of degeneration would far out last the rate of random positive qualities and truly new good codes of dna.
youtu.be/flLHOPNrSaI
I’m guessing you got all your ‘science’ from school and tv. So that is a video for you.
Living molecules can be derived from sterilized organic and inorganic matter.
This means all planets and moons have life. Not the life we idealize, but still, reality is part ways living and part ways conscious.
People misunderstand evolution a lot of the time. We do have super bacteria; we do have super fish, though we call them names other than ‘fish’.
I used to see myself as fragile. I still do. I have a very slender body frame for my height. Being fragile doesn’t mean we can’t still be unbreakable. We do have many strengths; every single one of us; and our weaknesses are there to prevent us from becoming too arrogant for our own good. It’s humility. If you knew 100% you were an immortal spirit, what appreciation would you have for your own current existence? Life was always meant to be that balance of delicate savagery. It becomes a matter of how we choose to pull it out of our selves.
Yes, it would have. You forget the circle of life, however. Everything exists for a purpose and nothing can completely wipe out any other thing on its scale of existence for we all adapt and grow and evolve. Our weaknesses along with our strengths.
The majority is not aware of its own sentience, but that’s where we come in, since both the light and the dark must come together to create our life as they do; equal parts. The darkness lashes out without thought while the light constrains it and bids it to work its will; to bear witness so that it may come to deeper understanding; for the darkness is just as cunning as the light and has come to its own form of sentience over time since the beginning of the cosmos and it will all begin again new one day as a phoenix from a black hole, creating new systems and new things to repeat the same over-winding cycle of life and death. Encoded blueprints, DNA, programmed data. It is one and it is many; connected through the energy of everything and divided to contain the destructive qualities for a small amount of time for the beauty and grace of such a fragile life to exist amid the empty loneliness of space itself. What are we but an extension of that consciousness; that sentience? For it to weave together in us, it must somewhere weave together outside of us, as well; everywhere. Everything serves a purpose and that purpose is to help us grow and adapt and everything becomes at that point both a learning lesson and a matter of perspective. If our foundations and arguments are faulty, why do we react with anger at other people if not frustrated at our own inabilities, when those faulty arguments are dragged off? And, one must take into account that something isn’t a faulty argument just because someone has previously backed down from it or been shown not to understand it fully. The fact that such messages have been repeated throughout history should be proof enough for everyone. On both sides. It’s time to give proper respect and appreciation for both and to try to find middle ground for everyone.
The problem is that once such an agreement is extended for people to view on, there will still be those who deny peace and refuse to trust and they will become offended and violent.
The problem of good that most people fail to realize is that it’s very similar to bad and there is no real difference save perspective. One knows when the proper time to act is and the other does not. The problem with ‘bad’ is it often never puts time in to think as it tries to run from thoughts or if it has already accepted the horrible thoughts as its own. The problem with good is it is often so subtle that people rarely take the time to notice it; moreso in todays modern society. It is patient and every bit as cunning as ‘bad’ and yet rests in faith. Faith that at the core of everything is love that has been misunderstood or abused. But it sees far and it lays its own traps and its own plans, aimed at directing people to peace, for it understands the darkness after it has been through it itself. I find that the biggest problem are people who believe themselves to be good without admitting the bad in themselves. I find them to be extremely dangerous individuals; because when shown for what they are, they usually flip out and quit trying to be good; they go the completely opposite direction.
My brother andrew watches tv, plays games, and goes to work. He smokes weed and drinks liquor. He doesn’t kill anybody or anything like that. But multiple times he’s said how if he had the power to do it, he would want to wipe out all life on earth.
Is that the kind of good-bad you are talking about?
The last parts of your reply sounds to me like you are saying nature is whole, or that good and bad each have a natural place in life and reality.
Are you reacting to the false values that are so common? It seems so to me, because of how good and evil are generally portrayed in the media and in christianity.
No. Well, yes; but no. I’ve thought about that same thing. The problem is that with things the way they are, it’s what is going to have to happen at some point or another; the rebound effect of repression and oppression. People who did not allow themselves; or were not allowed; to express themselves properly run a higher risk of committing offense without understanding it. Seeing all of the horrors committed by everyone else makes us want to create our own horrors, though it is often because there becomes no other resort as people refuse peace and love and growth and reason and understanding so that they can continue staying in dark, lonely, hateful places. It isn’t hard to see what needs to be done. The hard part is doing it right, and that’s what has tripped us up in the past. A lot of people know the path; very few have come to a complete understanding of how to walk that path. ‘very few’ being in comparison to the overall number of humans to have ever existed. It’s actually a nice-sized number. That doesn’t make people bad for wanting to do something. Thoughts are nothing without actions. People are free to say and think whatever they want; but people need to be aware that when a persons thoughts and words are not in alignment with their actions, to not take them seriously. Those are the ones that can be changed and what positivity and negativity struggle for; power of the masses.
The ones that lock their choices in and makes actions match words and thoughts are the dangerous ones, for bad or good. That’s the roll of the die and it’s the lay of the playing field. Men have often played games of deception; not just men but both negativity and positivity within men. Many have lost themselves while setting those traps. Those traps being love and peace that has stood up over time. Men such as Jesus Christ who far outshines any heinous villain in his majestic and regal nature.
I recognize false values for what they are, but realize that there was never any true deception at all. They showed us the truth and we refused to believe it and so they showed us the lies as well and then fed us more as we ate them up. They couldn’t tell the truths directly, so they showed them to us in our media through both the lies and the truths; the comedy and the horrors and the propaganda and the exposures and the documentaries, day-time tv; cartoons that stopped teaching kids how to think and turned to teaching them how to be idiots with short attention spans; with no respect for anything. Parents spend too much time working and relaxing to readily spend much time with their kids unless they’re on welfare or unemployed or disabled and collecting SSI. These kids become raised by their video games and their movies and their books. They become influenced by their friends, their teachers, those they look up to; and that constant surety that their parents must love them the way they love their parents; until that is smashed as does happen every so often. Some parents love too much and spoil their children.
I have had a lot of time to think in my life and it hasn’t always been pleasurable. I haven’t always done ‘good’ things and I haven’t always had ‘good’ thoughts, and yet I did. I pay attention to each person I come in contact with and generally see the same: a child pretending to be an adult and unsure of who they are, caught up in the landslide of reality. Every one a child inside no matter what, even if they are sure of who they are. People are generally filled with love, but I’ve noticed that a lot of people would rather be loved than to love others appropriately and they can often get too greedy for love without putting forth adequate effort of their own.
Seeing how history has unfolded behind us, I look forward into the future and see unlimited opportunity and possibility for what we can become as a species and there’s no room there for wondering what will happen to us in the end: we’re all going to die and nothing lasts forever. I find that it’s a matter of how we choose to go out that defines us; and that’s something that some people wait too long to find out about them selves or others. positivity is far more powerful than negativity, but it has long been forgotten. Negativity finds it so easy to wipe positivity from the hearts of the people; I’ve seen it in our history. Our recent history. That’s because few people fully understand what good things are well enough to stand firm in the face of it all without fear of consequence. We all think we will act courageous until shown differently and that only ever serves to harden our will; not deter us. The positive will, when strengthened, is infinitely stronger than the negative will that seeks to twist and spin and distort to win. One can face a multitude, especially in such a setting as the internet. In days past, it was done with swords and other weapons. Todays world, it is, again, mastery of self that dominates, but mastery of the mind over the mastery of the muscle. The clever have tricked and out-thought, at every turn, most of humanity. I take that into account, because I have seen the cleverness of men in those movies and books and video games that I have played. The cleverness of artists to spin their fictional tales that mirror society in so many ways and the cleverness of the con artists that love the fact it’s claimed as fiction so there will always be the benefit of a doubt and the average people themselves caught up in that doubt too much to focus as much as they should on the true problem, until they free themselves from it. Each person doing what they think is right while being deceived by their own lack of mastery over their mind. A lack of will to even try. And, it is no different than finding God. Those without an open heart or an open mind; both; will not admit to a God that is greater than them. Those with both and the spirit to bind the two together will understand what it means when it is said that the universe is mirrored within us, because they will begin to see how everything fits together with everything else because they incorporate it all into themselves. That’s when the answers really begin to come.
People get too caught up in being angry over being lied to to really push forward beyond that. We’re both good and bad and that’s a very good thing. It makes us dangerous and I like that; I love being dangerous. We need to know how to use it properly, otherwise we will always be a danger to ourselves; and that is for the greater good of even the bad.
