No wonder people are depressed these days in the huge numbers they are,or if they arent technically depressed they are reclusive,bored with life,irritated with people in general,they have simply lost the spark they once had in their youth. What a mess !
One of the problems these people have [ Ive spoken to loads of them] is that they assume everyone else is like they are,and thats what contributes to their depression,their skepticism.They believe people are only evolved,selfish animals,incapable of rising above their base instincts,and so they behave that way too,trying to hide it all of course,everyone thinks themselves honest and full of integrity,but under the mask,anything goes,they lie,steal,cheat,even think and say terrible things about people Imagining nobody can read their mind,but then when others respond this way to them too they end by going in a mood,having a rant “see,life is pathetic,people are just selfish,calculating,unkind”. But thats because you were selfish and got the same in return
You will not understand anything until you take off your rose-colored glasses. This cosmic catastrophe we call the “universe” is absolutely pointless and exists for no reason whatsoever. There is no God. Second, the human animal is a horrible perversion which should not exist.
Indeed, and this is because the human animal is almost hardwired to live a life out of stasis and in constant struggle. This condition has little to do with political or economic circumstances, and more to do with the actual biological circumstances. In shorter words, a human being in any circumstances is bound to become miserable.
How beautifully ironic in my case. I do not assume people are like me, because if they were like me they would have already accepted the dire truth about the world and moved beyond that, with a view to make things better, if possible. Here is your irony: you believe in God, which does not exist…then you believe the world is inherently “good”, which it is not…then you believe that all those who are pessimists are so because they are inferior to those who you deem are correct in their understanding about the world, which they are not. Strike three. You’re out.
Are you saying there is somthing beyond selfishness in the everyday lives of people? When did that happen?
What existence or manifestation are you speaking of? This is all news to me.
- Loco Bramista-
true
but I see this as the residue of the sixties thinking thats its all about " me " it was the ME generation .
hence the consequences of this attitude
being indifferent to others
If you’re being selfish and wise, you’re probably not attacking your own friends. Instead, you may cut down an enemy or two, as you want to put yourself and your team over and above some other turd that you don’t agree with. Therefor your nasty side would mainly be pointed towards enemies and foolish strangers.
Meanwhile, if one is a foolish selfish person, they cannot mentally reach beyond their own short term personal world of feelings, and not even be really aware of other person’s mental validity, therefor they even hurt their friends.
I have met selfish wise people before. I liked them. They did not waste any time bothering me. They were very focused on their own success, and it was good to watch them, to learn about center, focus and progress.
The selfless ones I see, they are often the ones whom give everything to the hoarde. Without a self they support the commonality and its poor qualities. They behave as mothers for fools whom never grew up, constantly seeking to protect the things which are alive but are not very good.
When man is idiotic and improper, no matter else he holds in his mind, it will all be badly applied. No matter whether his hand holds an axe or a cotton sock, he will cause harm with it, or put it to waste.
Ideology is not the problem but instead is the dead object.
Words and knowledge, data, it’s all dead, written words and records.
Any value, anything at all you can think of, it would only become good and bad once animated and put into the whole process of motion in life. Selfish and selfness both would fail if fools had them in mind, for the fool would not skillfully apply either. No matter whether he drove a car or a truck, he would still make too many accidents and contention.
The problem was a lack of eugenics, a lack of sexual appreciation towards strong, intelligent, healthy things. That is or was the downfall of the race.
Yep I agree. Though I expect that you will have some like Joker saying that every action is selfish. I belive the PC term for selflessness is Indirect selfishness these days. But whatever it is Steriotypical selfishness does nothing for long term satisfaction, it just puts you in a miserable mind set because like it or not we are all social creatures, and gaining some form of praise, even if it is unspoken is the most uplifting of feelings that I have experienced thus far, I think of selfish actions a bit like crazy nights out, they can be fun and get you what you think you want, but a day or so later you tend to regret it. If you get to wasted all the time you end up hating yourself and those around you who seem so happy with life.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, these arguments about selfishness always seem to pivit on what a the person is gaining from a situation, but the idea of selflessness does not actually care about what the person performing the deed gains. Its about what other people gain.
Example:
If a man could win £1M and gave half to charity. One could argue that hes getting a good feeling and so is selfish. But he could have kept the money and still would be selfish. The difference in choice is not wether or not the man is gaining for himself. Its wether or not he belives that others should gain from his decisions.
I disagree with Ayn Rand on a few major things, but on this I believe she is right.
If people are depressed, it’s because they’re not being selfish enough.
I see where you’re coming from, but in this passage isn’t she really just redefining ‘selfishness’ as identical with ‘self-concern’? They’re not at all the same. “Altruism declares that any action taken for the benefit of others is good, and any action taken for one’s own benefit is evil.” is not at all true. That might be a psychological tendency of some people - I think psychologists call them ‘codependent’ or something.
She’s arguing that the world “selfish” got a bad rap.
How would an altruist define good and evil, then?
Perhaps nihilism is the only cause behind idealistic disconnection between all people? The only way you can devalue another person, and thus no longer depend on them, is by destroying their social worth/connection to you. As such, you become more independent and selfish.
If a person despairs and commits suicide it is (pretty much?-)always the case that the person had his/her heart broken by somebody they formerly “loved”. If people could exist in vacuums, then they would not commit suicide, because of the ‘selfish’ instinct to survive at all costs. It’s only after social relations are acknowledged that people are willing to die (or commit suicide) for the sake of another human being/purpose/etc.
I think that’s a great observation that the “depressed person is not selfish enough”, because the person is basing happiness on a social relation outside of ‘complete independence/disconnection’ (if there is such a thing).
This point would get slippery real fast though.
Well, ‘selfish’ generally implies obsession with self, exlusive of others. Everyone knows when someone is selfish. It’s the kid that won’t share his toys, the person who loves receiving gifts but not giving them, etc. It’s a very basic and simple word.
That’s a big question that I couldn’t possibly answer. There would be so many answers. But if “any action taken for one’s own benefit is evil” then a good altruist would be a dead altruist. It just makes no sense.
Honestly, the more altruistic people I know are far happier than the more selfish people I know. It’s a paradox, but for a person with a healthy sense of self (i.e. not codependent for instance) it seems to me to be true.
Some good points. I think the type of person you are describing is something more akin to codependent, which I mentioned to Anthem. Seemingly ironically, self-strength can be developed through genuinely considering the happiness of others. I think the problem is that we almost can’t help but resist what we perceive as judgmental moralising by others - parents for instance.
Therein is the paradox of the altruist system.
But that’s my point exactly. I’ve never heard of anyone who believes this, whether in word or in deed. It’s the ultimate strawman.
the thing is , is that, with selfishness is that there is a lack of empathy for another
it is possible to have a successful business and at the same share the wealth
the Magna Corp. does this magnificently .
its corp. philiosophy is the best I’ve heard of anywhere in the world
share the wealth
There’s another ad squared 
Can you tell me where the ethics comes from in altruism, if not from the definition?
al·tru·ism
- the principle or practice of unselfish concern for or devotion to the welfare of others (opposed to egoism).
Benifiting others and yourself is often simultanious, see TRADE for more details.
AE : Desire’s effect is not binary…
I agree with Dan~. The definition doesn’t exclude self-concern.
It’s obvious both that excessive selfishness can be bad for the self and that a misguided concern for others’ wellbeing can be bad for others.