Why do you encourage me to read all of that?
Why do you encourage yourself to seek a lifestyle in the military, years of your life and the possibility of the lost and ruin of your own life and that of others, when all you have to do is read and contemplate what would take two minutes above now to avoid all that silliness. Men are inherently backwards, they make a mountain our of a molehill and seek unwarranted disaster instead of living simply and wisely.
If you can read, then do so. If you cannot not due from inability, it is no shame, but if it is laziness, then it’s a fault and shameful vice in a philosophy forum.
youtube.com/watch?v=1NT1tPpkVMM
I don’t have the right not to.
Wtf can I say, I agree with the cynic.
People who form extreme positions/lifestyles based on lies can accomplish rather amazing things, but for me a samurai is no role model. They have utterly sold themselves and their souls. This complete abnegation of self does allow them to do some amazing things, but so does extreme masochims, guru worship, drug taking and addiction, brainwashing, having been sexually abused and a whole host of other extreme experiences or ideologies.
Ok, guys, I’ll try to make this very clear:
[size=200]I DO NOT CONDONE, RECOMMEND, ADMIRE OR IN ANY OTHER SENSE PASS ANY KIND OF JUDGEMENT ON THE SAMURAI[/size]
Now, can we deal with the very present philosophical link between Nietzsche and the Samurai that I made the OP about? Or do we prefer to toot eachother’s moralistic horns?
Don’t make me post the war it’s fantastic link again, 'cause I will you know. How can you doubt that man?
Yeah I didn’t get that impression but thanks for the update. 
Samurai were crazier than knights, I blame Taoist and Buddhist influences, and haiku, and the knights code was absurd, well taken in context with now.
Mind you it seems knights had a very selective view of what honour meant and chivalry.
I am sure most samurai used honor selectively as well. Only few, it seems to me, would have been able to truly follow the Way.
True but its like any code, it’s only as strong as its parts. Knights were generally utter bastards in war and out though, as many of its codes only applied to the gentry dealing with gentry and even many of those were about ransom and battle. For example it was said by many knights in the crusades that no man exemplified the chivalric code better than Salah Ad-Din. But the the Koran is very specific on the treatment of prisoners and parlé with “Dhimmi”: people of the book.
In any case, it is not the code or honor part of the samurai Way that has correlations with Nietzschean philosophy, at least not regarding the quote I used.
What didnt you get when I said both the samurai and bushido evolved out of the concept of being “the emperors shield” & that most of Japans heroes died tragically in the lost cause of failing to become one? This was at the core of the Nietzschean Mishima’s failed coup. Its all caught on tape, thought Pezer would of seen it. Outside of Hitler, Mishima is the second best known open Nietzschean on the planet, the news of his hari kari was on the news all over the planet. More people heard of hom then than will ever hear of passing phenomenas like Focault.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatenokai
I am wondering why Taz is silent in this discussion, has a not too shaby background in Bushido literature as well, was doing alot of research for its comic strip.
Why go and shoot yourself in the foot? Maybe if you tried to argue he [Hitler] was a Theosophist you’d make more sense.
Hitler was a Nietzschean, the most important one of the 20th century. I dont approve of either, my philosophy is the same as in inglorious bastards. Just because you bought into a blantant academic lies that Hitler wasnt somehow a Nietzschean doesnt mean I or anyone else who knows anything about history and the twi mens beliefs have to suddenly lobotomize ourselves to dumb ourselves down to the level of Nietzschean apologists. Hitler was a Nietzschean, it aa certain was the moon rotates around the earth.
Think Pezer will like this link
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ni_Ni_Roku
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriotism_(film
I’ll check the links later.
Hitler wasn’t a Nietzschean, that is obvious to anybody ever read Nietzsche. Hitler was a Nietzschean less than Stalin was a Marxist.
Lenin is to Marx as Hitler is to Nietzsche. Stalin was sorta a something… fuck, he wasn’t a deep thinker on anything. Has anyone tried reading his extremely few works on logic? It’s just all fucking blah. Hitler was heavy into Nietzsche- his adult life heavily imprinted by everything Nietzsche (he was quite the philosopher himself, forcing attendants and generals into art and philosophy discussions left and right… like they fucking cared what Schopenhauer said), Lenin was heavy into Marx… just as much if anything, but neither can hardly be called carbon copies of their idols… if hitler was, he wouldn’t of dedicate his life to creating a neitzsche oriented art centered state from obscure basis as a homeless artist, and then rose to conquer europe to a higher extent than any other man in history ever has before or sense… he would of instead of contracted syphillis and danced naked in his rented room until he pooped himself inane under a relative’s care. Same goes for Lenin… he would of gone to work in a factory in England where he would of neglected to help out the workers in his own factory, leaving them to rot as he tried to figure out why the borgoise were so cruel, why the proletariate weren’t doing shit, and why the factory managers needed to be cut out of the loop. Both were douchecocks who read between the lines and found a means to application not so clearly stated by the original authors. Both have the Feuerbach and Hegelian root to them, and considerations of Max Stirner. Not too distant men ideologically, and sitting on the same larger branch of philosophy. Both are scumbags. As are their sources… however, there’s a strong base of apologists for both… no, it wasn’t Nietzsche or Marx, they were angels who didn’t desire this or that outcome, it was misinterpretations, etc. Holy fucking shit people… the philosopher has to pay attention to this sort of thing. Wasn’t like we didn’t have precedents for them to go off and know this was a bad idea, history is rife with it, it’s common sense… if your going to aim at the world in conjoling people to seek after, you need to toss in a few disclaimers such as:
*not by violent military means
**fuck I really strongly discourage genocide
***I have a poetic license in phrasing this stuff, don’t actually hurt or control others… just like um, lead a better more fruitful life in harmony with others.
**** Literally following what I write means you don’t get me, what I am about is actually all esoteric and fruity.
***** Only the professors and later day apologists got this interpretation right, go deep throat a rotting banana, that’s what I really meant.
Unfortunately, they don’t include those five, and so I am forced to believe maybe Lenin and Hitler understood their idols a little too well. Hitler’s final words- as recorded by the SOVIETS of all people (meaning the academic propaganda that it’s all a conspiracy of so and so to discredit Nietzsche is absolute bull, as the soviet secret archive when they released this stuff in 1991 after the fall of the USSR wouldn’t of bothered to go along with such ‘flippancy’ in the west) as heard from the men they captured and interrogated in his bunker, who saw him LAST, were deeply Nietzschean. Hitler had Nietzsche on his brains until his last second.
It’s a sick deluded conspiracy, and is laughable in the extreme to pretend Hitler wasn’t a Nietzschean. By default, beyond all realistic disputation, he was by default one, and it was never a secret. The guy used to encourage people to worship the greek gods for crying out loud, and was obsessed with culture and the arts and his tarded intellectual caste system. However, Gandhi too was a Nietzschean… so it allows for variations, just was there are Marxist who are NOT total dicks out there, such as in India, who no longer care for a bloody revolution and just want the best for their people. But they can never redeem Marxism beyond the point of stripping Lenin and Mao of their honors/dishonors to the name. Same for President Jackson in putting Republicanism and Democracy into the dirt.
Hitler was the most powerful man alive in his era… he controlled more of europe than anyone else, and had a massive influence. By default, he’s the top Nietzschean of the 20th century. Foucault I head could push a shopping cart pretty fiercely through a grocery store, so he’s not likely going to surpass Hitler in terms of WTP. Gandhi, even if he could qualify as a open Nietzschean (he’s clearly influenced by him, but never seen him outright way he was affiliated or directly quote him, he’ll just take subject after subject and argue point’s Nietzsche set forth), still didn’t match Hitler. If you can show another Nietzschean that surpassed the Nietzsche obsessed Hitler to dethrone him as number one during the 20th century, by all means, I’ll be pleased to hear about it. But I severely doubt it’s gonna happen.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgPC74-Tde8[/youtube]
13 Assassins is one of the most bad ass movies I’ve ever seen, and IS the best martial arts movie, or samurai movie, I’ve ever seen, putting jokes like Kill Bill to rest. Best part is, it’s also a true story. Two very different kinds of Nietzscheans are shown in the movie, the Lord is the generic, Cezaresque Nietzschean who is detached and self obsessed, intrigued with unleashing eternal war upon the population for the sake of the phenomena itself, and the effect it has on him. The hobo-cynic in the movie is completely made up from what I can gather, but is based on concepts the Japanese Nietzschean schools have developed as to how a Nietzschean would look like… for several decades, the Nietzscheans were one of three dominant schools of Japanese philosophy, they have their own take on stuff.
I had a few books on the 40 Ronin, but it’s gonna be a while before I can track that stuff down, I’m stuck doing my taxes, just needed a break.
alright, one last one- he sought it as the rest, and lost it all, hunted down like a little faggy bitch (I mean nothing by that, it’s how they describe him pretty much) and forced to commit suicide… one of the greatest of Japan’s heros.
Minamoto Yoshitsune
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNCkhQhm93A&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL224BAF7B579E33CA[/youtube]
It’s all about idealism over pragmatism… save for the pragmatic school I’m more partisan, in which case it’s inverse… but the spirit of Japan always leans towards idealism. Of all cultures on the planet, they are the most Nietzschean in their orientation, very, very much so at times- I’ll hit that some other time. I can’t find video of this guy dying ingloriously though… sucks.
something made by a film student by another famous japanese samurai hero- Kusunoki Masashige , who died like a failing bitch, grabbing the japanese imagination:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDxQdIflpVQ[/youtube]
Ok, alright, I’ll take on this Hitler crap.
#1 I don’t know… Maybe in your hobo philosopher’s life you haven’t had the chance to much learn what a politician is and does. Hitler was a populist, first and foremost. He wasn’t engaged in some individualistic crusade to conquer the world; he was doing that and keeping the political base (which started as a minority and was constantly under heavy attack from opposition) happy. I have seen dictators, I have seen them turn into Gods right in front of the people’s eyes. All it takes is knowing what they worship: in Venezuela’s case it’s communistic poor-man’s rights and Simon Bolivar. In Germany’s case, they all felt like they had to catch up to all the other cool country-nations that had been empires for centuries already. First came Bismarck, then came Nietzsche, and if you think it was Nietzsche that Hitler was following in that short list…
#2 Ok, let’s say you are right and Hitler was a Nietzschean. I mean, after all, he did have a lot of power and was belicose as fuck, both undeniably Nietzschean elements. What kind of Nietzschean was he? He had a complete disregard for other cultures, loved killing before thinking, thought Germany was just the best, had cero regard for jewish culture, absolutely loved post-Parcifal Wagner… All of which are very un-Nietzschean. Truth is, if Hitler was a Nietzschean, it wasn’t in that he liked and followed Nietzsche (though he did make a big show, like a dictator-god will, of liking this underground philosopher). If he was a Nietzschean, it is because he fits into one of Nietzsche’s predictions for that century: the century of tyrants.
As I said, nobody but a cynic can read Nietzsche and say “yeah, Hitler was a strong exponent of this stuff.” Bullshit! There have been and will be many Hitlers, but veeery few Nietzsches.
It’s not about “defending” Nietzsche. I’m sure he would have prefered Hitler to the democracies we have now. It’s about being accurate: Hitler was no Lenin, he was a full blown Stalin, and they both had the same correlation with Nietzsche’s work in fact (though in speech, Hitler reigned supreme). In fact, now that I think of it, Stalin was many orders of magnitude more Nietzschean and Machiavelian than the Romantic Hitler could ever have been. A loser isn’t a Nietzschean Tyrant.
Which brings me to my last point.
Nietzsche was largely a reaction to romanticism. He was disgusted by it’s ideological self-deception, all the more for having been swept by it when he was young.
Hitler was a super-duper romantic. Did you know that when they went into Rusia, they changed directions twice because Hitler decided last minute to conquer areas with no strategic value, but which “traditionally belonged to the Germans” and he got all sentimental drama queen about it? A Nietzschean wouldn’t even approave of the German unity. Nietzsche was an overcomer of romanticism, and Hitler tried to make it look like the reverse was true: see? manipulating populist like I said.
Was Napoleon a Nietzschean? Maybe.
Was Stalin a Nietzschean? It’s a stretch… but just maybe.
Was Hitler a Nietzschean? Sure, and so was Wagner. 