First, I don’t think the following is unique to Christianity; this just happens to be the largest religion of the nation that I am from, so it is the representative of Religion largely in this country, nor did I make this video nor do I agree with the term, “demonize” as a characterization of what is being done by making this video.
I also think that placing the title, “Brain Washing” ahead of the footage is poor taste as it immediately biases the watchers; please try to watch this ignoring the poster of the video’s title commentary.
Second, I don’t think all Christians are like this; actually, I know that they are not.
Third, I feel compelled to put this out there for discussion because it’s just about the most disturbing methods of religious practice that I have come across in quite a while.
To me…the saddest part is that there is nothing that can be done about this hysterical brainwashing (The application of a concentrated means of persuasion, such as an advertising campaign or repeated suggestion, in order to develop a specific belief or motivation).
Aside from the extremely questionable methods used to teach children, they also are placing in the seeds for potential political violence by isolating the children from the nation they live in and telling them their government is against them, and further having the children smash icons of various aspects of their government system and it’s representatives in the form of porcelain cups with a hammer.
That last act is a very violent act for a child when the premise is to “release the spirit”, suggesting that destruction of government systems or individuals by your own hand releases God’s spirit from being imprisoned by these “evil” systems and representatives.
This is, to me, no different than militant fanatic religion.
And again…it is sad that there is nothing that can be done to stop this that won’t match the horribleness of what they are doing, or fuel their propaganda.
Yep, religion at it’s best. At least with satanic abuse you get cool black clothes.
Seriously though, when will people learn to recognize the divide between God as it/he/she wtf.ever is/could be and a religious imposed icon…?
Rather that banning theistic education in schools, we should have more… Waaayyyy more, just jam it down kids throats that god worshipped in the form of aspect X is not ‘God’.
And as always, wannabe parents should be given an ‘I am not an asshole’ test.
We ask the “moderate Islamic” world to be more activist about their objections to fundamentalism… any “moderate Christian” churches out there who are going to any great pains to clearly denounce these movements? And I don’t mean pleasant, “Oh, no, we’re nothing like them!” types of statements.
Alternatively, how is it that these organizations aren’t simply acknowledged as logical outcomes of scripture-in-practice. Until the Bible receives a serious update and editing job, and loses it’s “can’t be touched” status, why shouldn’t we simply expect that such perspectives on it will flourish?
In the meantime, by what manner of god’s good graces ought we have the least tolerance for such organizations (and for that matter, those even many degrees less extreme)?
All the more reason to ensure that the more rabid atheists out there are set loose to create the social crisis. Bring it on Dawkins!!
Where do these kids go when they grow up? Army? Is there anything they want to “bring on”?
Unfortunately, in Protestantism, there largely lacks a central governing body, unlike Catholicism or Islam.
Some Protestant sects have governing bodies, such as the LDS, but more common if there is a governing system for Protestant sects, it’s more akin to a Federation, Tribunal, or Council of affiliated churches liberally linked together in general support of each other and not really with any control over each other.
Generally, the last described are the dominant forms of governorship for Protestant Christianity in America, and when a given church or group of churches is seen as no longer adhering to the concepts the rest of the affiliation agrees with, then they just break off and form a new affiliation.
So sadly, due to the nature of the Protestant interest in not being controlled like the Catholics, and not having a divine line like the Catholics, there also lacks any form of consistent control; people are free to start a Church and slap the label of Christ or God on it in some way and start suggesting that they are Christian, regardless of whether any other denomination agrees with them or not on that attribute.
Hi Stumps,
Ya, I understand that, but there’s nothing stopping “moderate Christianity” from attempting an eccumenical purge by together denouncing extremists (other than their mislaid an selective sense of piety). They could even wear the mantel of being role models for “moderate Islam” by doing so. A first (if a bit touchy) step might be to edit out at least the more extreme passages of the bible and lay it back on the table for the rest of the populace to agree about, alienating the wackos until they put themselves in the position of being indicted by the law of the land for their absive and disgusting acts of depravity…
Well…I wouldn’t hold your breath for a re-edit of the Bible.
But I can say this…I think this is a relatively new rude awakening for American Christianity.
Many people aren’t even aware these kinds of cases exist to the extremes they do.
Most think that the extremists are secluded nut-jobs toting 2nd Amendment rights and stocking up on war supplies in a bunker waiting for WWIII.
These kinds of activists…well…it was a rude shock to my system as well.
I’m still in shock; I don’t even really have words for this yet.
I have long feared this kind of thing based on some scratches on the surface many, many years ago when I was a young teenager based on some small instances that I had seen that raised caution in my mind about activities and going-on’s, but there wasn’t anything like this…yet.
We all know what a fan anthem is of religion…so would it surprise you to know that I was once very nearly persuaded to attend a jesus camp by a very similar method to the ones used in the video?
It was in high school, and my girlfriend at the time was very jesus-freak. I was not. However, I did have a large amount of catholic guilt. It is very real, I assure you. Not that I didn’t do a few things that weren’t deserving of some healthy guilt, but it was exacerbated by being catholic for so long before that.
Anyway, we had a group prayer session after playing volleyball or something (that’s how they get ya, lure you in with fun), and they did the usual close your eyes for some prayer. Then they hit you with a guilt trip and said something along the lines of, “If there is a piece of your heart that is not whole I want you to invite jesus into it. If you feel like you’ve been touched by something, open your eyes and come up and see us.” Well, I did open my eyes and I got about halfway up there…when I looked back at my girlfriend. She was still sitting there.
Now, two things crossed my mind. A) If she’s so in love with jesus why didn’t she feel anything and B) does she know something about their motives that I don’t? I went back and sat down beside her, closed my eyes, and acted like I hadn’t gone anywhere. They were inviting the kids to a jesus camp. I shudder to think what could have become of anthem and his poor impressionable head.
Yeah, it’s tough. That’s why I’m rather militant in my anti-religiousness because you almost have to be to get your point across.
The other little thing I do is I never close my eyes for a prayer. I look around. It’s not to be smug or feel good about myself and scoff at the poor deluded souls who are praying to a non-existent god. I look around so in case there is someone who is like high-school anthem who happens to open their eyes, I can look back at them and wink, and hopefully affirm their doubt; let them know others aren’t buying it, and it’s okay not to conform. It’s happened a few times.
The other amazing part of this is that the christians are incapable of drawing a parallel between what they’re doing and any other pagan rite. The smashing of coffee cups is ritualistic sacrifice. The dancing with face paint is overtly African. The shaking and tongue speaking and crying is mass hysteria. A lot of Neo-Pagans knowingly take advantage of this force. The psycho-christians accuse other cultures and religions of being victims of mass hysteria and justify what they feel as ‘the holy spirit’.
Screw removing one passage, get rid of the KJV.
It’s really screwed up and theological anthropologists know it’s not accurate according to the original manuscripts.
But if I could remove only one passage from the Bible I think it would be
But I would also rather remove:
The idea of oneself being the enacted will of God and that you are charged in Righteousness to “free” man from his evil ignorance is about as sick of a religious focus as I can personally conceive.
It stinks of militant and hostile take over instead of peace and humility.
These passages aren’t bad…WHEN IN CONTEXT, but that’s just the problem.
Most Protestant sects liberally take verses far out of context and apply them to whatever situation they want rather than examining the historical atmosphere these verses were said in.
For that reason, I would have these verse removed.
And especially the KJV…hell, look at what these read like in KJV…it’s practically a charge of a war cry in the KJV out of context.
Notice how everything in the previous version was soft…that at least it can be read that “you” are to show people the way out of their spiritual ignorance, yet now in the KJV you are to “BRING out the prisoners”…not set them free; FORCE them out…BRING them out and FORCE them into the light.
Now it’s PLEASING to God that you are his WILL…I mean…COME ON!
I hate the KJV, and I really distaste the adherence to it as the MOST accurate word of God…whatever.
No offense intended to any that hold it as such around here, but come on…it’s about as densely populated as it gets with a militant mindset of the age it was made.
Good picks, Stump. That’s very dangerous, giving people the authority of god and all.
I think I would want to change these passages and their ilk:
It’s a little insurance policy for christianity. “Now that we’ve let you into our club you’d better not betray us! Bad things will happen!” Makes it harder for people to question their beliefs.
I was going to suggest a passage that was as mundane as possible, i.e. as having virtually no thematic impact on anything whatsover (something to the tune of, “And yea, verily Cletus put another log on the fire.”), …simply as a demonstration of benignly editing the bible.
But then I thought I’d do the random-pick method. Here’s what I got:
…man, whatever happened to the old cheek-strike salutation…
In any case, whatever passage were chosen, and in the event that the good ol’ stalwarts of Christian Churchdom (Catholic, United, Anglican, Methodist, Lutheran, ok, maybe LDS too ( )… etc.) got on board with it, in what form do you think protest from the extreme camps would take? I would tend to suspect they would take actions that would radically alienate them further from the mainstream. I think they would get violent (as, indeed, they promise they will do anyhow). …then The Man could step in and do what needs to be done. In the meantime, mediocrity feeds the perversity.
Honestly…you know what would be fantastic?
A mass gathering of Christians at places such as these (her camp has since been shut down); circling outside and all silent in prayer.
So a silent protest, but one where they are all silently praying.
It’s about as opposite as it gets from what this hysterical form of Christianity is doing.
Now…ideally, I would try to get a large body of Christians to sit in perfect lined order, never move, only staring, and repeating the Lords Prayer at whisper volume and in unison.
…and candles, they’ll each need a little votive. And they should go into some subtle random stutter when it comes to …“as we forgive” …melding into some wispy tide of “forgiveforgiveforgive”, as the theo-fascists unlock their arsenal and prepare to assault. …but to their surprise, the votives are actually there to light the molotov coctails each moderate Christian has secreted behind themselves, and a glorious micro-revelation ensues…
I suppose all parents will allow or cause indoctrination to happen in the way they see fit for their children whether they are in the atheistic or religious vein. There will always be those people who will object in either direction of how other people’s children are taught. Polarization seems to be the norm in the world we live in. This group thinks they are right while yet another thinks their way is the best. It all depends where you values are anchored.
I’d tend to agree with your relativism here, Litenin, for the most part. The part I might take issue with, personally, though, is the “values are anchored” part… In my own case, though I do actually acknowledge that I have much to be grateful for from aspects of my religious upbringing, something I feel I have needed to overcome is the very idea that I ought to anchor my child’s values. Of course, I try to provided guidance and counsel as issues arise, but I think there’s a great need for hoisting our anchors these days, and having faith in ourselves enough to let our values set sail, and ride the relativist winds.
Having children shiver with group-induced psychosis is the product of an anchoring system that pulls ships down.
Any value in a society of social pacifism (meaning, it is not lawful to aggressively assault other citizens of that same society) which encourages people to aggressively take action amongst and against the fellow citizens and it’s governing order is NOT a good value.
Teaching such values to children?
It’s just sick…regardless if it’s just their opinion and perspective or not.
Not to equate them to such, but to make a point about perspective…the SS had a perspective about what they were doing as well, and so too the educators of future SS; children.
The world can largely look at that and say that it wasn’t a good value set to teach.
These folks are akin in that they are teaching a violent value set and mixing it with religion at the same time as isolating the youth from their society openly and teaching them that their own society is out to get them; to defeat them.
It’s all a matter of your values and where you perspective lies on what you feel is right…whether you feel something is sick or not. I find nowadays people aren’t totally agreeable about things. If they are, then another group will label them as ‘brain washed’.
And they are teaching to feel isolated, oppressed, and to fight aggressively against the Majority when no one cares or hates Christians as a majority rule.
No one is persecuting Christians on mass scale, or even large enough for Christians in America to have any right to sound the oppression bell.
They are creating their own oppression, and then telling children to fight.
When that is not the majority method of acceptable behavior in our society, that is wrong.
And above everything else, I don’t give a rats ass about respecting their perspective…they are teaching children to fight their own society…and act out their anger against this imagined oppression in violent methods.
Fuck that man…that, and I am a VERY accepting person…is just plain straight SICK.
Why?
Because those children don’t get to be “normal” kids.
They get to live with this really screwed up idea that everyone is against them.
