The sober life versus the stoned life

Think of this as my [this is your life] -vs- [this is your life on drugs] topic. Hehe.

part one: government’s got their finger in all our pies
Given the recent revelations in the news and the “Peter Jennings Reports” special that MDMA aka ecstasy is an almost benign recreational drug, the question bobbed to the surface of my brain once again about the whole better living through chemistry argument. Marijuana is less harmful to the body than alcohol, yet my government has taken INSANE measures to keep it illegal, even going so far as to hinder its medical use in this country.

Now it turns out that the DEA and other government agencies have systematically and grossly exaggerated the risks of casual, recreational MDMA use for the past 20 years - ever since it was first outlawed here in 1985. This… is seriously not a good thing from a public health standpoint. As Peter Jennings wondered aloud, when government officials knowingly lie about the dangers of drugs, how are our young ones ever supposed to be able to trust them?

That’s one issue: WHY does my government want so badly to keep us from certain recreational drugs such as marijuana and MDMA?

The other issue is, what are they so darned afraid of. Is life when experienced through the recreational/occasional use of drugs better than a straight, sober, bone dry, no-frills existence? Might make ya wonder.

sober reality versus …the stoned life
I found Jennings’ report most interesting. Casual users of ecstasy relayed the simple truth of an expanded personal experience of life. A mildly hallucinagenic, designer drug, MDMA produces a unique, mind-expanding effect that users report allows them to feel more love and get in touch with other feelings of wonder. The most casual search on Google or Google Groups will yield a rich plethora of insight into the mind-enhancing effects this drug has on users.

The most impressive aspect to all these testimonials is the sheer volume of “educated” people who use. I’m talking people who know their stuff–professionals in the fields of psychopharmacology, psychiatry, chemistry, biology, to name a few.

Something’s up.

Something which begs a more fundamental question: Why should our consciousness seem richer and more expansive under the influence of some chemical cocktail; or indeed, some exotic extract of an obscure South American tree bark? …lol A new and welcomed member to ILP Forums, Alien Corpuscle Bath, is one of those who claim an expanded (or at least he perceives it so) awareness of spirituality and consciousness via use of these substances.

And so with that, I open the floor: Why should this be? If there is more to reality (big IF; this could all just be hallucination), why the hell should mind-altering chemicals be required to facilitate our experience of it? (Certainly a rhetorical question, but if there’s a God, then why He do such a thing to us! …lol)

Thank you for your time reading my rambling reflections on the subject,


I dunno, I dont buy it.

I looked up an analysis of the report and found that Peter Jennings wasnt all that accurate. … o_mdma.php

The reason I was skeptical is because pretty much all of the county I used to live in went “e-tarded”… doing stupid shit to get the pills, and worse shit when they came off of the pills. E is not a good drug. I didn’t take the pill when I had the chance many times… it just sounded too good to believe…

I now don’t fully regret it, although I plan on trying it at least once before I die.

I just think that after the shit I’ve seen, the incredible sadness, the stupidity, the … I have to think that E had something to do with that.

Dunno man.

In direct response to your question…
Mind altering chemicals are required for some experiences. I dont the brain is capable of doing it all on its own. However, I dont think these experiences are in any way spiritual. I think that’s just pure lunacy… misinterpretations of reality. Drawn conclusions. False. I just think its… “a new perspective”.

Certain drugs modify the chemical ballance of your brain causing you to percieve/think differently than you would otherwise. Does this expand your mind?

I would say, in a way, yes. You carry memories of how you thought and percieved with your drug altered mind, sometimes causing you to think and percieve a little different when you straighten out. New neural pathways get mapped in your brain that never would have been there otherwise.

I am not so sure this is always or even usually for the better, though, and most drugs have other adverse affects of some sort.

A lot of years ago, I tryed most of the usual suspects. Acid, mushrooms, coc, weed, hash, E, speed…I am never one to make a judgement without firsthand experience.

Well ecstasy certainly isn’t good for you, but it doesn’t necessarily make you stupid either. If you do it all the time it probably will, but any substance is like that. One thing you have to consider though “e-tards” get ttheir pills from the streets. Those pills could have anything in them, and most likely only have a very small portion of MDMA. The filler ingredients could be anything. I think that the government is just scared of the effect it has on people’s minds and personal beliefs more then anything else. They want everything to fit within the mold, and drugs make people think for themselves.

The drug I was referring to in that bark of the Caapi vine contains a sort of chemical cocktail that consists of DMT (Dimethyl Tryptamine) and MAOIs (monoamine oxidase inhibitors) The DMT is the psychoactive chemical, while the MAOIs shut down the system of filtration that removes the psychadelic substance from your body. This combo WILL bring you into another realm. You can have out of body experiences and all sorts of things. Most people would hate this substance. It’s only a certain type of person with the right attitude (also that can handle some stomach pain) that will take this substance and get anything out of it besides fear and madness. Shamans have been using such methods (as well as a slew of others) to communicate with the spirit realm. One thing I must add for anyone who has the gall to try this, don’t eat anything except rice or fresh produce for 4 hours before you take it and twelve hours afterwards. If you eat anything else (there are a few other things but as a general rule stick to produce and rice) it could cause you to have a heart attack. The best idea is to fast since the substance is a purgative anyway.

Anyway, back on subject, I certainly DO believe in chemical expansion. The brain is an electrochemical device. Through synapses it shoots ions through spaces filled with small portions of chemicals. Different chemicals have different effects on thought processes. Some of them inhibit thought processes, while others expand them. The argument that the government provides for the illegalization of drugs is that they are dangerous. I seriously doubt this is why they actually keep them illegal. If everything dangerous should be illegal, then why do we drive cars? Automobile accidents are the number one cause of death. The government doesn’t want that to be illegal because people use cars to go to work and do things that are beneficial to the government. Drugs are destructive to the government. The government depends on people to think within their design of social framework and recognising their authorities. Drugs cause people to think outside social frameworks and question authority. The most radical case of this was the sixties LSD craze. Before LSD hit the streets the US was a more conformist society, and non-conformists stayed underground with little influence on the rest of society. After the emergence of LSD as a major street drug the largest counter-culture movement in the history of the U.S. ensued. After the consecutive illegalization of LSD, that counter-culture slowed down as less and less people were using LSD, and LSD itself became either chemically inferior or much less potent. The process is still going on, and the counter-culture is getting closer to non-existance. Drugs pose a threat to the government. If LSD was still legal, likely our government would be much different. More political activists would protest government activities and take actions against them. I think this is the government’s greatest fear domestically, and the main reason for outlawing drugs including Marijuana.

That is not to say that drugs aren’t dangerous. They are. Some drugs are dangerous physically, others are very dangerous psychologically. That isn’t a reason not to use them though. If it is a calculated risk, then what is the problem with it? Every time you drive your car to the store, that’s a calculated risk. You know that there is the possibility you could get in a fatal accident during the trip. You weigh the risk vs the reward and decide to drive anyway. Drug use should be considered in the same manner. It certainly isn’t for everybody. But whether or not it is for you should be a personal decision, not a decision made by governing authorities. They don’t tell us not to drive our cars, so why do they try and tell us not to do drugs?

One aspect of psychadelic drugs I find fascinating is their wide array of effects on different people. Not only is every experience quite unique, but the effects on the person are too. While one person might take LSD once in small dose and be psychologically damaged for life, another person can take an astronomical amount of it and be fine the next day. It’s extremely difficult to die from overdose physically. It is easy, however, to be permanently mentally damaged from an LSD overdose. Whether or not you are susceptible to pschological damage from the drug seems to be based only upon the psychological fortitude of the individual. To me this suggests that the drug itself has very little effect on the physical self, and mainly effects the mental self through synapses. It’s not a good idea for everyone to do psychadelics for sure. But everyone should have a right to make that decision in my opinion. The illegalizations of these drugs don’t bother me personally much though, as there are so many psychadelic drugs in existance that only a very small percentage of them are illegal, and even those are legal in their plant forms, and their potion forms.

Interesting thread. So im gonna throw in my two cents. Ive lived on both sides of the fence. Ive been the non smoker of pot, ive been the occational smoker of pot, ive been the large smoker of pot, and i have been a pot head, and it has never been a simple progression from the first to the latter either. Just depending on the different point in my life or the situation i happen to be in at the time. I have spent weeks on end where the only time im not stoned is a couple hours in the morning. I have also had the pleasure of doing a few drugs that most of you on this forum have probubly never even heard of, and would think ive got crazy issues even trying to do.

The conclusion i have personally come to from my life so far? If you live a sober life, you are as a matter of FACT missing out on a very unique part of life that you cannot recreate otherwise (except mabye invasive surgary… but um… yeah ill let you people try that). I often wonder sometimes about people who have mental “disorders” and how exacally they experience life.

However, drugs are not for everyone i have learned, and im sure most people hwo have made a habbit of doing them can attest to this. Some people simply cannot handle a life of drugs, and attempting to do so can really harm an individual and thoes around them if they arnt careful. It is rather rediculous that the government does not allow them for various reasons. However, unlike some people I cannot blame them for their stance. As i just stated drugs are not for everyone, and what can they do but try and protect thoes who they are not safe to use.

I am still not complete my drugged journey through life. I still have much to see and do. And i am still young (relativley) so wish me luck =)


I’ve noticed that while I have been high, I have been very creative. Way too creative and imaginative. But at the same time my ambition and focus goes to heck! So I have figured that as long as I don’t own a helecopter with my name on it, I shouldn’t smoke weed. But damn, I wish I could be high everyday.

Well I appreciate yutes taking the time out to register your thoughts on my topic.

Eek. Yeah, but dude how do you know it’s true out-of-body and other-realm phenomena happening and not, as Rafa said, "misinterpretations of reality. Drawn conclusions. False. I just think its… “a new perspective”?

(I tend to “side” more with Rafa here, but fully respect your perception and beliefs, Alien.)

Alien… Ehhh, dude I just dunno. That seems like an awfully broad, overly-encompassing statement you’re making, there. Certainly not just any mind-altering chemicals make people think for themselves.

Care to explicate upon this claim for clarification’s sake?

Well, as far as the out of body experience goes, I know the difference by feel. If you actually experience that sort of thing, you can tell the difference between that, and what an illusion of that would feel like. Despite that, I have had such experiences without the use of chemicals before. I have experienced strange phenomena all my life, and I have always tried to take as scientific view as possible with my experiences. While in other states of consciousness I constantly ask myself questions. Questions as to the nature of the expanded realm that I am in, and of the reality of it as well. You would argue this realm isn’t real because only I can see it, but that is not always true that only I can see it. If you have a group of explorers that all see the same thing, what does that mean? You could write it off as some sort of unconscious telepathy or subconscious communications. It seems to me, however, that one person imagining the whole thing, and the others subconsciously having that hallucination effect them on a conscious level seems more of a stretch then there being another realm of consciousness that while under the influence of certain chemicals, and through the use of certain techniques can be viewed by those who would normally be oblivious to it’s existance. Such expiriments with psychadelics have been performed and data has been recieved showing that groups of people on certain psychadelic drugs share the same experiences from hallucinations to personal revelations.

The original doctor who performed the first government sponsored controlled expiriments with LSD was Timothy Leary. Through his expiriments with psychadelic drugs he has recorded plenty of information and wrote several books giving instructionson how to explore your brain using LSD or other psychadelic chemicals. The government has sponsored expiriments with many different psychadelic chemicals, the most recent of which being DMT. The DMT expiriments were performed by Dr. Rick Strassman who collected some very interesting information, and composed a book called DMT: The Spirit Molecule. Here is a good link to him and his book…

Despite all the expiriments even, people tend to have consistant hallucinations far too often to be considered coincidence. If you took all those consistancies and added them up, the chance of them being coincidental would be incredibly astronomical. That being true, then there must be some other explaination for things like out of body experiences. If they are not coincidental hallucinations, then what are they? Any answer you could come up with for that question would seem just as unlikely as the experiences being real. The brain has proven again and again to have surprising capabilities that baffle scientists especially present in psychotic, or autistic people who often exhibit seemingly superhuman abilities, or exceptionally quirky talents. All this being true, why is it so hard to believe that the brain might have the ability to percieve things that aren’t in the realm of ordinary experience?

Moving on to the government being afraid of the effects of drugs changing the way people think. I was referring mainly to illegal drugs. If you will notice, society seemingly always wants you to take certain drugs and avoid the rest of them. When you turn on your T.V. you see all sorts of pills and drugs advertised on a regular basis. Those are all the drugs “they” (meaning our social institutions, i.e. the government, and economic agencies) want you to take. They just keep on naming off symptoms until they find one of them you have. The vasy majority of people take prescription drugs. In modern day America there is a pill for everything. These are not the drugs I am talking about. I am talking about amphetamines, psychadelic amphetamines, hallucinogens, and psychadelic drugs in general. Even marijauna. Marijuana effects the way people think. It tends to make people more non-conformist, and question authority more often. The government doesn’t want you to change your mind, and how your thought process operates. They want you to continue to think in a predictive manner so you will be easier to keep under their controls. I thought the example earlier of how drugs threatened the government during the sixties was a perfect example of how the government might think like this. It IS true. Many illegal drugs DO effect people’s thoughts and make them more defiant to authority. If nothing else expansive drugs raise questions in people’s minds. The drugs I am referring to aren’t drugs like cocaine or heroin which are inherently dangerous, they are drugs that are mostly non-addictive, and the government hasn’t given any good reasons for outlawing them. DMT, LSD, and Marijuana are high on the list.

BTW: For anyone who thinks LSD is harmful to your body in any way check out Albert Hoffman. That guy (who happens to be the discoverer of LSD) is almost a century old and still takes LSD!

There are definitely two sides to this story. I remember being in a neuroscience course where the professor was recruiting us students to participate in a study of his, whereby he’d do an fMRI on us. He stated that the only exclusion criteria was having done LSD even once. Apparently, having ever done LSD would permanently alter the pathways he was interested in looking at and therefore would add noise to his data. I had only done LSD once and was pretty freaked at the idea that I was unable to be a part of his study because I had permanently altered my brain.

Secondly, I took E plenty-o-times in college. Don’t think I’m much stupider because of it, but I certainly have a permanent jaw problem because of it. And I’m not the only one I know with the same problem.

Weed? I’ve got no problems there. Personally, I much prefer a nice joint to alcohol any day. I think its insane that its not legal. The idea that it is illegal to allow a particular PLANT to grow in our backyard is, to me, insane.

Why is weed illegal when alcohol and cigarettes are both addictive and legal? There’s a whole historical trajectory to that story that includes a lot more to do with profit and social agendas than the country giving a damn about how it affects our minds.

Google the history of this sometime and see what you find… its interesting.

First I say that I don’t really lean to one side or the other. Pretty much all my friends do drugs, I just like playing devil’s advocate :slight_smile:

But what you wrote is not necessarily true. Regular users of hallucinogens, or pot even, aren’t all that in touch with reality. I know a fair array of them, and although it affects them differently at different times, they don’t seem to be coming up with anything that’s even close to changing their views on society. They say alot of things about how they could change the gorvernment, or how bad the government is, which, yes, the government could be scared of. But honestly, these are stupid ideas they come up with. Most of them have already been thought of or tried, and failed.

Hallucinogens make you think alot of things, and feel alot of ways, but I don’t think that’s the reason the government won’t let them be legal. Bear in mind that we have millions of people in the US alone who already have or regularly use them and there hasn’t been a massive up-rise against the government (at least, none that would actually scare the government).

The 60’s were different. There was a very confusing and scary war going on, and it was the first time LSD and others were used widespread. They fraked out, got high, and started spouting theories. People still do. And LSD was only part of what ended the conformist era. The 60’s and 70’s led to a big change in the media, what with Nixon and the unprecedented coverage of the Vietnam war. There was alot of other things involved.

But can you imagine a whole society who regularly used these drugs? If they were made legal, then more people who thought they were bad would start using them (it would be inevitable, really) and nothing would get done. Imagine a whole bunch of stoners operating heavy machinery or driving cars or working at McDonald’s even (there already are some there, heh). It would cause a break away from government mainly because people would be in a dreamworld; they wouldn’t want to work, just like alcoholics and crackheads and stoners don’t want to work. Only, the more drugs that were made legal, the more people would become ‘losers’ sitting at home on the couch by the hooka.

For everyone’s talk of being against the government, it’s human nature to want to be told what to do. Everyone, even the President, has a certain amount of rules they are told to follow. If you legalized all these drugs and there was a so-called ‘expansion of mind’ and the government was done away with, there would be alot of very very unhappy people. I personally think it would be a step back, evolutionally speaking. Even if those drugs do expand your mind’s capacity, it would mean a dangerous end for things that people need, whether or not they believe it.

I went off on a rant there. But still. In this particular instance, I don’t think the government has some deep-seeded conspiracy to keep LSD off the market.

^ Damn. Pragmatica beat me to it, but no, I don’t believe the U.S. government engages in any coordinated conspiratorial mind-control shenanigans either. (But that’s just my own feeling.)

However, the use of certain of these substances has been shown to cause this kind of paranoia in users. (cough, cough Alien …grins, ducks, runs :smiley::D)

Ahem. Anyway:

Haha, you made a pun and prolly didn’t know it. :stuck_out_tongue:

Because skeptics (not necessarily including myself here) vigorously dispute the existence of other such realms to begin with.


I don’t consider myself paranoid. I don’t live with fear in my life everyday. It’s funny how people extend the definition of paranoia to encompass people who are suspiscious of government activities. Suspiscion has never been one of the characteristics of paranoia. I find it just a little bit of a coincidence that any critisism or suspicion of governmental activities gets you labeled as a psychopath. That seems a little bit too convienient for someone to me, that someone not being myself.

As far as skeptics not believing in those realms, science is working on proving their existance. Right now they are just theoretical, but mathematics suggest that they exist.

In case my inclusion of smileys weren’t sufficient, I do not really think you paranoid or a psychopath - far from it; and was only ribbing you, Alien.

2 1/2 hits of E, 1 1/2 hits of acid, ketamine, speed, weed, 1995/6?, middle of The Crystal Method performance, rave in Connecticut(?)-USA, hands to the sky… I can’t remember much of the 5W’s but man, THAT was another realm!

We can’t have people running around on mind altering drugs.

The economic and social impact is far too much of an unknown quantity for the government to allow widespread change in the consistency of the collective reality.

Inception does not allow for immediate legality. Patience, if it’s ever going to happen.

Just a take… Or is that toke?

Why people use drugs? It is in our nature to seek different states of consciousness (imho). I use pot for self-medication and psychoanalysis of myself and I’ve found it a rather useful tool. That’s exactly what it is, a tool. I think psychedelics are tools too, they can be used for good, but you can also fuck yourself up seriously if you don’t know what you are doing and aiming for or if you are not strong enough psychologically. One of the reasons why marijuana is illegal is because of ignorance, the plant holds 60 cannabinoids and government studies concentrate on THC because that’s the part that makes you stoned, or so they think. Marijuana obviously has value as a medicine, but nooo nooo since it is a ‘drug’ some people fear it and think that there can’t be anything positive about it. Goddamn, people should just get rid of this semantic trap. It wouldn’t be such a big stretch to legalize pot and that would make a lot of money for the government, and there would be no more issues with quality. US prisons hold a shitload of people who are in there for possession? That’s just plain stupidity. As a thinking person I have the right to decide what I put in myself, not any government. I do think though that if one is going to use some substance, he should study it to the detail to know exactly what he is doing. Current drug education is sadly causing more damage than it is doing good, when young kids find out that ‘hey they lied about marijuana’ some tend to think that they lied about heroin too.

What I can say for a fact is only my personal experience, so here goes: Too much is too much, moderation is needed in everything. Some but not all drugs are tools to be used for better understanding of yourself and life in general. I can say for a fact that my mind has become more flexible due to my small experiments on the field (I am not a heavy smoker). Pot helped me to get rid of my depression, when I got rid of depression my life just seems so much better than it has for ages. When using drugs, it must be you using the drug and not the drug using you. Drugs must be evaluated scientifically without the prejudices that the name ‘drug’ holds.

Someone said governments don’t like drugs because they make you think. Yeah, that might be part of it, it’s way easier to see through the bullshit now.

I just wanted to make a few individual points, I believe the original topic has wavered a few times and there are several things I wanted to comment on, so I’ll split this up. First of all, I have experimented with quite a few psychotropic substances. What is easily obtainable on the streets is almost never pure MDMA. It is a very small amount of MDMA generally mixed with methamphetime. One reason why it’s so popular as a club drug, I’m certain. Most drugs that are obtainable on the streets generally are not what you think they are. I’ve heard people complaining about a bad backache or other such problems after an LSD trip. Unfortunately, these people have not had an LSD trip. What they have ingested is rat poison which has a chemically similar effect. For the less informed regarding drug usage, all someone does is purchase a box of rat poison, seperate out all the white pellets from the green ones, crush with a mortar and pestle to a fine paste, and then smear on paper. You now have a sheet of “LSD” which probably cost about 5 dollars to make, and which will now fetch about $300.00 depending on how you want to sell it.

So, when it comes to “e-tards” or bad trips, or whatever else the problem happens to be, I would generally look to those types of causes for the reaction versus the original pure form drug itself. Personally if I do anything, I know exactly where it came from, how it was manufactured, and exactly what it will do to me prior to my use of the drug. People who use psychotropics as a way to reach a higher plane of existance, a different reality, whatever you want to call it, are very careful with this sort of thing, and do not purchase drugs off of a street corner, or from a 16 year old kid at a club.

As for “false reality” well, that’s probably a topic best left on the philosophy thread for now as far as I’m concerned. However there is one thing that all of these drugs do that most people have lost. They are meant to “teach” you how to reach that same plane of existance without having to use the drug again. They were starting aids in shamanistic rituals. The ultimate goal with all of these substances is to be able to deliberately recreate the same state without relying on the crutch of the drug. People taking acid or other psychotropics just for the purpose of getting high are no different than anyone else with an addiction. They are not using the drug in a way that will expand their mind, they are actually shrinking their own perceptions as their use continues. Ultimately what matters is how your individual mind can process the information, and what you do with the information after it is processed. So, some people use it to expand their understanding of the universe, some people use it because they just want to get high, and some people will use it to their own mental deterioration.


And as for the government, well, why is sex before marriage a mortal sin in most established monothiestic religions? Because it can’t be controlled. The government’s JOB is to control the population. That isn’t conspiracy theory, that is the fact. To this end, we have police officers who arrest people who break the law. We have law makers to make the laws governing what we can or can not do. It is the job of the government to control the populace so there will be order. The ultimate job of the government is to prevent anarchy. How they prevent anarchy is up to the voters, because the voters are who control the people who end up making the laws. Or up to the people with guns in certain small countries, but I’ll stay away from that topic for now. =)

So, psychotropic substances are controlled for two reasons (IMO). Number 1, they can not control people who use them, and the people who use them are much more likely to resist authority that feels restrictive than those who do not. Number 2, the goverment makes FAR more money arresting people for drug use than it ever possibly could for setting up a tax on the same thing. My brother happens to be a bit more fond of drugs than I am, and as a result has had more than one brush with the government, so I have first hand knowledge of this. He was growing his own mushrooms out of a very small lab in his own home. The mushrooms were never sold. He used them, I used them, and he allowed his girlfriend to use them. His girlfriend was arrested for having an ounce of marijuana. THe police showed up at his door. The end result for a little less than 2 ounces of mushrooms in a small terrerium, because he “Created and maintained a labratory for manufacturing illicit substances” was a six month prison stay, fines of over $3,000.00 to the federal government, mandatory drug rehabilition to the tune of $1500, and a $10,000 tax fine to the state that he lived in because they considered the seized drugs paraphenalia. Let’s not forget that the IRS has yet to determine taxes owed as well. That should be coming up January 2005 or so.

How much of a tax would it be on 2 ounces of mushrooms legally purchased with a tax stamp? A dollar? 2?


It would seem you’re mixing up government with religion here. Though sodomy is still illegal in some states of the U.S., for the most part, government has nothing to do with our sex lives.

Public health. You’re leaving out public health. Sure, if you get yourself caught in the dragnet and have to pay out of your ass from a run-in with law-enforcement, then it’s a BIG hassle. And I agree that many drug laws are just nonsensical and the sentences imposed are oftentimes outlandish for simple possession/non-violent cases. Don’t even get me started on “mandatory minimums,” one of the biggest criminal-justice farces in 20th-century American history.

However, once you start in with the whole “government controls LSD and shrooms to keep us from questioning authority” bit, you start to lose me a little. I mean for Christ’s sakes if it was all about preventing us from “thinking freely” they’d have Michael Moore in CHAINS. The man’s made $50 million in just the first two weeks from his movie attacking the current administration!

Kissa I put the important stuff in red. THAT’S the function of our government.


Hey, I agree with most of what she said. The government makes a shitload off of illegal drugs already. I had to take a mandatory drug class once for possessing a small amount of Marijuana. In the class they added up the totals of the amounts that each of the drug offenders in the class have payed out in the long run including probationers fees, court fees, attorney’s fees, etc. and the amount ended up to close to 100,000 dollars per person (though a few paid way more then the rest), and there were 8 people in the class. That was about 750,000 dollars the government, lawyers, and other organizations made off of petty criminals. They even seize massive amounts of funds as drug money, auction expensive cars and houses, electronics, all sorts of things. The point was supposed to be in that class how much you lose from using drugs, but I took it more as how much the government gains from you using drugs.

The social institutions of this country would have you think them stupid, but they are a lot smarter then they portray. Not only do they know that drugs make people think differently, and that is a threat to them, but they also know that they will earn money from drugs regaurdless of whether they are legal or not. Most of the people in the class I was in were actual drug dealers and such, but still when you add them in with he more nominal amounts extracted from users, it is quite profitable indeed. One of the idiosyncrasies of this nation’s leaders is the fact that they always support flow of income over any other human value, especially in foreign countries. They have very mixed up priorities. Income and civil compliance are at the top of the list. Just look at the patriot acts, 9/11, and all the money it has made, and the rising levels of compliance that have been achieved. Is that a coincedence? What about the drug war? Should inanimate objects be the object of aggression? What about defenseless nations? Just listen to the contentions given by our social institutions regaurding these actions. Ask yourself if that is really the truth or whether it is simply more convienient for you then the truth.