The Trial of Jesus

Philosophy Forums Religion and Spirituality
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I got in an argument with some guy and now I find myself wanting to familiarize myself with the trial of Jesus Christ’ . The Guy claims that Jews killed Jesus. .He claims that the Bible says that Jews killed Jesus, meaning that the Bible says as much. Bible or otherwise I thought that was ridiculous for the very simple fact that people opinions differ and that the only way there is a unanimity of opinion among even a modest cross section of people let alone a whole nation as implied by his unqualified usage of the word Jew its because chances are that unanimity was likely enforced and most certainly enforced if you’re talking masses of people. .there are several other reasons that I can think of that are good enough to refute the guys claim off the top of my head . Things like the majority of the Jewish people were likely to be sound asleep during the trial or not present. Jesus had disciples and followers, believers , a Japanese getting convicted in Japan the chances are it was Japanese people who convicted him and not Australian Aborigines and and and . but the guys claim aroused my interest and i proceeded to try to put together an accurate account of what were the trials like according to the bible. I say put together because i tell you it has been something of a challenge to piece together what took place from reading the bible. . the accounts in the bible are in bits and pieces so that you have to sort through the four new testament books before you get an idea of what took place as in accordance with the bible . I kept going back and forth through the four new testament books to do it. What conclusions or findings i came up with is what i want to check with you .

the first thing is straightforward . I calculated five trials or hearings. One hearing right after Jesus arrest , followed by two trials by the Sanhedrin , followed by one Roman trial by Pilate ( part public part private) , followed by a hearing by Antipas followed by A Roman trial by Pilate which was the last trial.

Do you agree with this ? yes or no state your reasons.

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True Israelites, true Jews, recognised Jesus as the long promised Messiah. It was evil men who hated the God of Israel who crucified Jesus. They called themselves Jews, sons of Abraham, but they were the vile successors of those who killed the prophets.

The Romans were merely the hapless tools of these men.

But who put Jesus on the cross? You did, if you can read this, because Jesus died for you.

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The Roman, Pilate, knowing that he was being setup by the Jews to take the blame for Jesus’ death (Jews were not allowed to kill directly), literally washed his hands while proclaiming that he saw no guilt in Jesus and then left the issue up to the Jews mass gathered in the court. That mass had already been filtered to be specifically anti-Jesus so the “vote of the Jews” was against Jesus. Thus the Jews got properly blamed even though only a few manipulative Jews designed the situation.

The term “Jew” today refers to both the race of Jewish people as well and more specifically to those within that race who follow their tradition inspired from Moses and reject the teachings of Jesus. The name “Jew” came from the concept of “judge”, once spelled “ju” or the plural, “juus” and was a part of the naming of Judea.

The Jewish God of judging is the God with which atheists have their quarrel. The Christian picture of the Hebrew God is far more amiable. Jews today reject the idea of a forgiving God in acceptance of creating judgment against any who defy their rule (same with the Muslim’s God of Fear).

To go any further with the truth of this situation in today’s environment would merely spark flames of hatred coming from Jew and other Anti-Christian supporters.

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The Pharisees and the Sadducees were at odds with Jesus because they felt He was trying to undermine time held religious beliefs of a people who thought they had exclusive rights to God. Not to mention the contention of heresy they espouded while Jesus pointed out their errors concerning the laws and rituals the Jewish High Priests were committing.

Here is an excerpt of the accounts of Jesus’ last hours just before His Crucifixion with Scriptures to support the details:

Here is the link where that excerpt came from.

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If you notice at the bottom of my opening post I said I calculated five trials/hearings . But then when I listed them they add up to six .

Guys , fellow human beings , I’m depending on you to check my findings out .you should have told me five doesn’t equal six .you should have corrected me.

That’s alright. I forgive you. Its cool. I like you. But let’s all chill so we can get focused. I’m going to try to. I’m working hard. I’m homing in on that trial. Work with me…

ochaye,

I will take that charge you made against me that I put Jesus on the cross as exonerating Jews and/or including me with them in the act of killing Jesus and not excluding you yourself as a party in the crime.

I deny the charges . I demand a fair trial.

you admit your guilt . I think someone should read you your rights. You’ve the right to remain silent .Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court. you’ve the right to an attorney . if you can’t afford one the court will appoint one for you .

James S Saint,

I gathered from your definition that Moses is a Jew. Moses lived way before Jesus and so where those Jews with him. This is an iron clad alibi that they were not present during the commission of the crime. They passed away before it . this will also include all jews who have lived prior to Jesus excluding the ones who haven’t died still.

As far as Moses tradition I think Moses was concentrating on how to get various tribes that were non homogeneous racially and culturally into becoming one nation and hence the 600 commandments which were boiled down to the famous ten commandments .so Jesus teachings rejected that ?

your claim is something like this .The tradition Moses started carried over through the centuries and precipitated the killing of Christ because it rejected his teachings. Correct?

this is a mouthful. You gonna have to hit the books , zillions of them to determine Jewish tradition and Christian tradition and then come up with a method t that would validated your claim. Let me just warn you , academically speaking , all the methods out there to deal with such a wide scoped subject are incredibly complex requiring all sort of thinking devices and an extremely poractcied hands . I’m just so glad I am not you.

You also say that Jews reject the idea of a forgiving god. I don’t know about that man. Seems to me everyone is so crazy about his/her god so that the notion that they are going to miss on such an ingratiating and image enhancing trait such as forgiveness in their description of their god simply doesn’t hold water with me .I’m going to bet that the Jewish Bible (the old testament. The book Christians believe in ) includes plenty statements to the effect that Jewish god is such an angel when it comes to forgiveness . Your homework is to go look for them and report to me .

And Moslems say that Allah is most merciful. You see that “most”. How are you going get further than most ? its not possible . You try and you will be contradicting basic language rules.

Hey the good news , if you go by any religion, you’re doomed to go to heaven or paradise or some cozy cool joint and you can’t complain to no one about it . the masters make the rules for the wise man and the fools and there is nowhere for to run. That’s the general idea . just make sure you don’t rock the boat because then you will be dealing with man and man doesn’t forgive .

. You’re not dangerous or anything like that ,or are you ? Don’t worry about it . Never mind. .

Leteninbolt,

You will join the prosecution team and you work on motivation to the crime.

I don’t know man. The Pharisees and the Sadducees had to deal with the prefect of Rome, Mister Pontius Pilate. They just went through the golden shield episode. People got killed and bludgeoned with clubs. Pilate wasn’t playing. And then you got the money taken from the temple treasury I believe to finance the aqua ducts . Man I tell you Pilate didn’t believe in boundaries when it came to what he thought was something needed to be done. If I was the Sanhedrin I would be very concerned about a character like Jesus going around talking the way he did. Its was very delicate balancing act dealing with Pilate and anything could tip it . and the thing is it wasn’t just Pilate because Pilate was acting to please Tiberius. So it was Rome. Rome was not something you wanted to mess with. They didn’t play. Put you and your family six feet under for looking at them the wrong way .try moving to Rome back then and you will be amazed how quickly your perspective will change . trust me when I tell you it will not be…. oh oh this guy Jesus offended my beliefs , it will be saving your behind and the folks you are supposed to safe guard against the whims and desires of Rome and its esteemed prefects .

Better still. I heard that there are countries today , right this day , in our most humane age , in which if your own child, your own flesh and blood opens his mouth and says the wrong thing you report him to the authorities .you snitch on your son, brother , mother . its is therefore highly commendable on the part of our forefathers and your forefathers way back then be they Romans or Hebrew to have courts and trials . that’s right Tiberius was my granddad and so was the Pharisees and the Sadducees and include Jesus and Mohammed and Buddha , all of them .

Work on the motivation. You need to work hard . if you’re going to convince the jury you gonna have to come up with convincing motivation. Think what if it was your behind that was on the line would you or would not have convicted Jesus ?.

Myself I’m willing to admit that I would’ve convicted Jesus. I would have convicted the innocent man. It is in us to convict the innocent man. Just look at your responses. right? You are mean lean conviction machines. It’s in us . it happened before and it will always happen . read the the Republic by Plato…

“……the innocent man will be scourged, tortured, bound …and finally after enduring …great suffering …”

It has to be . the innocent man has to die for good of the people.

Your link isn’t working . Maybe its my browser. Thanks though for trying . keep them coming . I could use every bit of info.

. lets for now forget about forgiving god and all that and whatnot. Lets first construct the trials .

You’re jumping ahead with your quote from the bible. . Lets start from the start

The first hearing. The first hearing took place before Annas . Jesus after his arrest was taken to the house of Annas . This is the father in law of Caiaphas . correct ? From the setting the hearing was sort of informal. It was like an informal hearing before Jesus was formally arraignment before the Sanhedrin before Caiaphas . .interestingly Jesus states that his teachings are a matter of public record . this claim flies in the face of that bit about jews this and that and whanot. Seems that Jesus was all over the place talking to them allegedly intolerant rejectionist Jews with the not forgiving god . Jesus taught openly in of all places the temple itself. How come they didn’t shoot there and then? I mean did we have to go through the trouble of holding trials and whatnot . if the people didn’t like the way jesus talked and since the people are such knuckle heads you would expected them to pull out their oozies and machine gun Jesus to kingdom come right at the temple door .right? I don’t know about you guys but something is very fishy here?

And you know Jesus did get to Annas because Annas slapped him for it . Jeus interrupts Annas and goes to him…everybody knows what I have said . its public record . you’re little too little and a little too late . lets stop with the charade and get on with it . Annas you better stop playing games just so as to make yourself good and legit . you’ve been spying on me you and Pilate . You got spies everywhere. You know everything . So Annas is cornered and lashes out .

Hey you ever witnessed some of those kangaroo court trials that they used to hold in the now defunct soviet union . by the time the prosecution is done with drumming up its case you will think its someone else they are talking about and not you . . you get really happy because you will think they are not talking about you but some other guy . then you get disappointed when they get ready to shoot you. Oh man I didn’t know its was a drumming up act that was gonna settle my fate . and with the soviets you didn’t have final meal either .

Okay lets hear your thoughts about this first informal hearing.

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Sorry about the link…I fixed it. Give it a try now.

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thank you Liteninbolt ». great site . I owe you one .

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Another interesting thing to note is slightly different accounts of Jesus’ last hours in the recorded Gospels in the Bible. Regarding what was witnessed, said, the number of people there and so on. The different authors (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) made reference of those events in different periods of time with varying points of view.

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Jesus was put to death for insurrection which stemmed from his attempt to cleanse the temple. The “Jews” (read the priesthood), had to do something about Jesus and his followers, and being unable to put him to death themselves, they appealed to Pilate to do it. However many “trials” there are in the NT is irrelevant. He appeared before the Sanhedrin and Pilate (and possibly before Herod before coming before Pilate again).

At least some of the Pharisees were Jesus’ sympathizers (Gamaliel, Joseph of Aramethia [?], even Paul claimed to be a Pharisee).

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The important thing to understand here is these events had to occur for the prophesies to come true and Jesus’ death to happen. Regardless of how all of this is viewed from different perspectives, all that was put into motion was a necessity. The culmination of these processes provided the inevitable outcome.

Jesus’ role in all this may appear horrific, unnecessary and even confusing, but there was a purpose behind this drama. It could have happened through different venues though the conclusion had to end in the death of Jesus.

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quickly

Yes the number of people is very crucial as well as the different points of view.

For me varying points of views is crucial because it lends credibility to the accounts. You get ten people who witnessed a car crash and when you ask them to relate what they say, invariably their accounts will differ slightly . . .

Why do you find different points of views interesting?

How many people were there in the arresting party that arrested Jesus?

I’m not sure what you mean by insurrection? Are you talking about Iraq? The BBC uses that world often . insurgency.

The charges that were made at the Roman trial if you want to give them terms they were probably something like sedition , maiestas and opposition to pay tribute . I’m not sure what the Roma legal term for that was .

the essential thing the charges brought by Caiaphas in the Roman court were thoroughly political and that’s what mattered .the high priest knew what he was doing and you have to hand him that . I mean this thing was progressing quickly and for him to drum up such charges off the top of his head shows he was not someone you can mess with esily . Jesus was really up against the best of the best. . so insurrection is fine

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He meant that Jesus was part of an open revolt against the civil authority of his time, and therefore was killed.

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Jesus committed suicide. He knew the law and the consequences for breaking the law of blaspheme and as a result he committed suicide by authority.

  In my home town several years ago there was a person holding a weapon and was surrounded by police who repeatedly asked her to put the weapon down because if she didn’t comply they were going to shoot her. She failed to comply and they shot her. She new the law and she choose to disobey knowing the results and like Jesus committed suicide by authority. 

The only trial that meant anything (life or death) went like this.  Pilate  asked.  Jesus are you the son of god or god himself like you have told others. Jesus replies. Well as you know I have told others this yes, but now that you hold my life in your hands well let see, I'm going to try to play word games with you, and let you make up your own mind, because I'm prepared for suicidal death the law demands.

I just can’t figure out why Jesus didn’t reply to Pilate. Well Pilate not only am I king of the jews better know as god himself. But Pilate I’m the ruler of all things on this earth and off this earth including yourself. He told this to others why not Pilate?

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The accounts of Jesus’ trials from the Gospels vary due to the timelines they are disseminated.
These are the primaries of concern from the Gospels in their standing of authorship:

These are selections from the Bible that corroborate those accounts, yet due to how the information was recorded along with the different times they were filed sometimes with 3rd person buttressing.

Again, here is the link in which the information was gleaned from.

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a charge of insurgency as opposed to sedition will have raised the threshold of the prosecution in proving its case. Calipashes would have had to provide one instance of that insurgency in which Jesus was involved . whereas with a charge of sedition he doesn’t have to. A sedition charge can be proved by just proving something Jesus has said to the people to incite them .

I think with Roman that’s the way it was . I know that’s the not the case now . The USA supreme court found that in order for a speech to meet the hate speech burden it has to lead to action. There was another criteria too to be met but I forget . that was in the early or middle 90s . so look there in that time zone.

I don’t think that was the case with Rome. Rome was very tolerant when it came to religion as long as you didn’t pick on other people religion. they ruled a wide religiously diverse empire . but not political speech . they weren’t tolerant.

The charges made at the Roman trial were highly political and designed to alarm a Roman prefect . yet Pilate didn’t convict and infact said he found no crime in Jesus . the idea was to alarm not to prove. It didn’t work . the witnesses failed .

The reason for that I suspect is because if there was an insurgency there wouldn’t have been a Sanhedrin trail . if Jesus was openly involved in insurgency .Pilate would have picked him up before the Sanhedrin even thought about it. That’s why Pilate was there . to rule the place … but Pilate found no crime in Jesus .if Jesus was involved in open rebellion , the second Pilate set eyes on him and learned it was the rebellious guy he would have went ……aha just the man I was looking for to execute … take him … staurotheto kai staurotheto

The Sanhedrin sentenced Jesus to death .then they had to take him to Pilate for Pilate to carry out the sentence . Historians say that was because the jus gladii, the law of the sword , was withdrawn from the Sanhedrin. The deal was in religious matters the Sanhedrin tries the person and if a death sentence is passed Rome is to perform the sentence . the Sanhedrin says as much in the bible . They said Roman law said they can’t put Jesus to death. So this is what lead to Pilate involvement in the case .it wasn’t rebellion.

We are jumping ahead. I think we should go trial after trial in the sequence they took place. I think that’s a good strategy to find out what took place or hopefully so.

Did the women who got shot by the cops say anything to the effect that she will come back from the dead after three days and if she did say it did she actually come back or has any of or groups of her followers claim that she did ? if not the equivalency falls short .

Pilate knew pretty well about Jesus teachings .Jesus said his teachings are matter of public record …

You know that guy what’s his name I am not sure , I think it was Cornelius who used to report directly to Pilate about Jesus and internal matters , that guy became a Christian. Also rumor has it that Procula was crazy about Jesus and didn’t want Pilate to have any hand in anything that hurt Jesus . thing is with rumors often times they are grounded in truth .

I don’t know man. the only thing for it I’m gonna have to take a trip back in time to the trial time and find out exactly what went down . But I really don’t want to do that because it will be bad form because I could ask him directly in the now . going back would mean I think the bible is lying to me then I will never hear the end of it . Jesus is gonna get on case about my lack of faith and all that stuff you know and that in turn will create problems of low self esteem in me … so lets do it this way seeing as all roads lead to Rome.

Jesus defended himself vigorously in court . He didn’t say much . he didn’t have to most of the time .This was court .the time for talking was back when he was teaching. his defense when he talked was brilliant .beside I’m of the opinion the ones who really got tried are the people who tried Jesus only they didn’t know it . Jesus was holding a counter trial all the while .Jesus got everybody set up, he was the puppet master pulling the strings .so Jesus had to not not talk too much because it would have been advertising and they would caught on.and that would have ruined the the thing.

Was there a better way to run the show . if you were a god yes but not if you were a man. . The general idea is that we too can be the puppet masters . All you need to do is believe there is an invisible world supporting this world and its not the end for you . you will rise again in that invisible world . It’s a victory over death method . its designed so as any human being can do it-that is its designed to fit human beings . . it wasn’t about Jesus really . it was about us human beings who just can’t go … here I caste a spell on you Pilate … now you must listen to me and let me free . Or hit everyone with a thunder bolt for getting on your nerves and trying you and stuff. you don’t need any special powers or divine powers . you just take it like a man then wake up and laugh your way to heaven going to yourself …. Hahaha the fools thought they got me .see when Christians tell you that jesus died for your sake they are also talking about the way he died . he died like a man dies because you are going to die like men die and have died . the solution has to be consistent with what you’re capable of in terms of being a human and not a god because you’re not a god . whereas if Jesus used his powers and hit Pilate with a thunder bolt that would be a god’s way .that wouldn’t work for you .if and when you find yourself in the same situation and you try to hit pilate with a thunder bolt and nothings happen then you will turn around and say to Jesus thanks a million for showing me what a god can do to get out of jam but trouble is I’m not a god . so Jesus had to do it with us in mind .