Hello. I’m new here. I did not see an introductions forum, so let me briefly introduce myself here. I’m 58, a carpenter, and seriously interested in Philosophy. I’ve been studying Objectivism for 31 years.
For many years, I’ve struggled to understand time. I’ve come up with what I think is a good, objective definition of time that challenges the conventional understanding.
My definition: Time is the conceptual measurement of relational motion or change, expressed in units or intervals.
Essentially, I see time as epistemological, not an independently existing entity. Instead, I think it is conceptual and a measurement of relative motion or change within the universe. This has implications regarding the Big Bang and an eternal universe. If correct, it means there was no ‘before’ the Big Bang. Time existed but was conserved as a potential until measurable change occurred. If something exists but has not yet moved or changed, then time exists in a probabilistic state much as particles do until measured. Time is not an absolute imposed on existence, but is contextual.
My definition.
Time = measure of change, relative to the observer’s metabolism.
The observer can use another standard, such as a pendulum, or a crystal’s vibration…anything with a predictable consistency.
The primary experience of time uses organic metabolism - cellular systolic/diastolic rhythms…or inhale/exhale, associated with spirit, Psyche.
Essentially time measures increasing entropy…since linear time is a constant movement towards increasing chaos, and decreasing order, relative to a point in space/time we associate with the closest point to absolute order - Big Bang.
This we take as a ‘beginning’ but it is simply part of an iterating cosmic cycle.
Hello. These are some interesting thoughts. I agree with you that time is a measure of entropy because entropy is a type of change. Time is a measure of accumulated change and entropy accumulates. I think there are two kinds of time. One is the constant change in entropy and then there is local time which measures change in a defined system such as the Earth’s orbit around the Sun.
How we measure it differs.
On earth we use the sun as a standard.
Our metabolism evolved upon earth, relative to solar and lunar sequences.
Circadian rhythms.
At their base our perception of change is based on our cellular systolic/diastolic rhythm, establishing metabolic rates, determining our perceptual speeds.
Our evolution on this planet shaped our perceptions of change…entropy.
Yes…and we experience this constant movement towards increasing chaos, i.e., disorder, as linear time.
A movement from near-absolute order towards near-absolute chaos…Yin/Yang
The universe is a dynamic place and change is going on all around us, so much so that we can’t perceive it all so that’s why we use clocks. A clock measures change in discrete incriments or ticks of the hands so that all motion or change relates to that ticking. When the hands were ate 12 PM and 7 seconds a car was passing, a bird building a nest in the tree, the clouds moved a little from where they were, and a person dropped a penny on the sidewalk, and the sun was in a position in the sky. Too much for our limited bandwidth to notice so we simplify it down to tracking the movement of the hands in relation to the face and it’s scale.
You can use any unity that is based on cellular cycles…establishing a median of perceptual acuity.
Relative to this we perceive solids, different from liquids, different from gases, different from energies…
Slower change, or interactivity, is perceived as solid…resistant…faster interactivity is perceived as less solid…all the way to where we can no longer perceive subtle inter-activities.
All animals related to us, seem to have a similar perceptual speed.
All is energy.
If we use electromagnetism as the median of sight, then the range from ultraviolet to infrared is the range of our perceptual acuity, using our sense organs and not devices.
I call it our perceptual-event-horizon.
Anything that falls outside this range - faster or slower - is perceived as darkness…void…empty…
All that lacks a pattern is perceived as dark and void…as well.
This produces the confusion of hidden order underlying everything imperceptible…and we equate chaos with complexity.
This is not so, in my view.
Chaos is the absence of patterns - absence of order. Because organisms are ordering organisms, they depend on patterns and can only perceive patterns…so we believe the cosmos is entirely ordered.
Also, I don’t think the universe is ordered; I believe it is lawful, and the fundamental law that everything follows is the law of identity. “Order” is a value judgment we make, and I don’t think there is any intrinsic value in the universe. Value is a relational measurement, just as time is.
Laws are manmade. They are based on man’s perception of underlying patterns, predicting patterned energy behaviors.
So, they hold true only for what man can perceive, because he can only perceive what is ordered…what has a pattern wihtin his perceptual-event-horizon.…or his range of perceptual acuity.
No such rules can be created to predict chaotic energies - energy that lacks a pattern.
That’s true. They are concepts. Concepts take us beyond what we can immediately perceive. The are the recognition of a pattern of commensurate qualities in a group of similar things.
Time is what gives construction to chaos. If there was no time, all matter would be happening at once - static. The universe would be one big volume, smudge or blur of “stuff”. There would be no movement, only various densities of substance.
This is why true omniscience is likely impossible: you cannot see all time periods at once, otherwise it would be a blob.
An image is when objects have distinct boundaries. Therefore there are different types of time.
Time 0 meaning Universal Time, that which gives construction. Without Universal Time there would only be a static blob.
Time 1, conventional time, motion. An image requires a prerequisite of Time 0, but does not require Time 1 to exist.
Time 2, conscious time, subjective time. If you are bored time feels slow, if you are happy time feels fast.
Consciousness is the amplification of image. Atoms are likely to not have consciousness, since they don’t have an image.
Time = measurement of change - flux.
Usually referring only to perceptible change - order.
Order = consistent, repeating, predictable sequence - probability.
Order limits what is possible.
Chaos = inconsistent, non-repeating, unpredictability.
Space = expanding field of possibilities.
Absolute order - idealized order (Platonic) - certainty. Singularity.
Negation of existence. Absolute disorder (chaos) - idealized disorder (Platonic) - uncertainty. Uniformity.
negation of existence.
Attraction to either idealized absolute state is psychological; determined by self-awareness (know thyself) and the ensuing by self-esteem.
Existence can either be ‘too much’ or ‘not enough.’
Sheltering is a factor.
Two sides of the same nihilistic paradigm.
I like how you think. I would add that entropy is part of the change that we measure. With every change, entropy increases, unless we put energy in, and then overall entropy still increases.
I particularly like how you frame space as an expanding field of possibilities.
I have this hypothesis. See what you think about it. Supposedly, the universe started out with low entropy, and entropy has increased since then. I wonder if, when the universe is at maximum entropy, it will be a kind of order. When the universe is spread out and all energy available to do work is exhausted, will this be a new state of low entropy?
Entropy is a measure of increasing complexity AND chaos.
Men confuse complexity with chaos, believing that chaos conceals some kind of secret order, only they know about.
What they are implying is absolute order…which is another way of describing god.
From this error we get to the belief that there is no free-will, because everything is absolutely determined in a perfectly ordered existence. This makes consciousness and natural selection unnecessary.
In fact, there are two types of energy: patterned (order) and non-patterned (chaotic).
Chaos is not complexity, but consciousness interprets both in the same way - void, darkness, etc.
Chaos is the absence of order…absence of pattern.
Chaos is what makes life and consciousness NECESSARY…..not only possible, but necessary.
Time = measurement of flux - interactivity - relative to an organism’s biorhythms, or its conceptual speeds.
Humans standardize this measurement by using external (objective), consistent, energy patterns.
Essentially time is a measure of change, relative to the perciever or some other consistent objective standard, such as solar cycles, quartz crystal vibrations, pendulum swings in earth gravity….etc.
I wouldn’t trust anything an AI says as they are designed to agree and flatter. If you continue to argue they will come to your side and tell you how uniquely smart you are.