Do they? I know many Christians who have accepted the view that he was ‘from’ God, but not God incarnate.
On the other hand, there are Hindus who say, “Of course he was God incarnate, we all are!”
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There is a wide range of beliefs and degrees of commitment around that issue with over 45,000 Christian and Jewish denominations and professing Christians and Jews with heterodox views who don’t belong to any church or synagogue. There are Jews who profess to believing in Christ and practicing the Torah. Christians have been arguing about it among themselves since before Christ died.
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This sort of thing reveals just how problematic human interactions can become once politics are involved.
With Trump this is round 3. They came after him in 2016. He gets elected. Then once in office they came after him with impeachment attempts. He survives. Then the part where he was faced with all manner of criminal prosecutions. And then one by one they all fell apart. In other words, all those here who a year or two ago were convinced he would end up in prison. Instead, he’s back in the White House.
So, will this be the Big One for Trump?
Trump has noted how, if he shot and killed a man walking down the street, the base would still back him. But what if it turns out that he had sex with young girls…will they let that slide too?
Here though things get tricky because any number of men on “the list” [if there is one] might be democrats or people well known around the globe. Ruling class personalities who will do just about anything to keep it all hush-hush.
Start here:
“Epstein List: Full list of names mentioned so far includes President Trump, Bill Clinton, Al Gore, George Lucas, Cameron Diaz, and more…”
- Ghislaine Maxwell
- Virginia Lee Roberts Giuffre [Epstein victim]
- Prince Andrew of England
- James Michael Austrich
- Philip Barden
- REDACTED
- Cate Blanchett
- David Boies
- Laura Boothe
- Evelyn Boulet
- Rebecca Boylan
- Joshua Bunner
- Naomi Campbell
- Carolyn Casey
- Paul Cassell
- Sharon Churcher
- Bill Clinton
- David Copperfield
- Alexandra Cousteau
- Cameron Diaz
- Leonardo DiCaprio
- Alan Dershowitz
- Dr. Mona Devanesan
- REDACTED
- Bradley Edwards
- Amanda Ellison
- Cimberly Espinosa
- Jeffrey Epstein
- Annie Farmer
- Marie Farmer
- Alexandra Fekkai
- Crystal Figueroa
- Anthony Figueroa
- Louis Freeh
- Eric Gany
- Meg Garvin
- Sheridan Gibson-Butte
- Robert Giuffre
- Al Gore
- Ross Gow
- Fred Graff
- Philip Guderyon
- REDACTED
- Shannon Harrison
- Stephen Hawking
- Victoria Hazel
- Brittany Henderson
- Brett Jaffe
- Michael Jackson
- Carol Roberts Kess
- Dr. Karen Kutikoff
- Peter Listerman
- George Lucas
- Tony Lyons
- Bob Meister
- Jamie A. Melanson
- Lynn Miller
- Marvin Minsky
- REDACTED
- David Mullen
- Joe Pagano
- Mary Paluga
- J. Stanley Pottinger
- Joseph Recarey
- Michael Reiter
- Jason Richards
- Bill Richardson
- Sky Roberts
- Scott Rothstein
- Forest Sawyer
- Doug Schoetlle
- Kevin Spacey
- Cecilia Stein
- Mark Tafoya
- Brent Tindall
- Kevin Thompson
- Donald Trump
- Ed Tuttle
- Emma Vaghan
- Kimberly Vaughan-Edwards
- Cresenda Valdes
- Anthony Valladares
- Maritza Vazquez
- Vicky Ward
- Jarred Weisfeld
- Courtney Wild
- Bruce Willis
- Daniel Wilson
- Kathy Alexander
- Miles Alexander
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You’re a nihilist, nothing is wrong, nothing is good or evil, all is fine and allowed, right?
I’m a moral nihilist. But even here I recognize my point of view as rooted existentially [historically, culturally, experientially] in dasein. Which is to say that, given new experiences, new relationships and access to new information and knowledge, I may well change my mind and reject moral nihilism. I merely suggest in turn that when it comes to moral and political and religious convictions, my assessments of dasein in the OPs here…
…are applicable to everyone else as well.
At least until someone is able to provide me with an argument – God or No God – that enables me to clamber up out of the grim hole I’ve dug myself down into philosophically.
Now, if you’d like to explore this further, note a moral/political/religious conflagration that is of particular interest to you and we can exchange assessments of right and wrong, good and bad.
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That seems very inconsistent, and why would the existence of morality depend on God, or no God exactly?
Again:
As this pertains to the assumptions we make regarding the existential relationship between philosophy, religion and morality.
Though there seems [to me] to be an important distinction here between the two given that many religionists insist that their own God is both omniscient and omnipotent. So, for them there’s no question of mere mortals getting away with acting immorally and there’s no question of them being punished.
Can the secular deontologists or the ideologues among us make that claim?
In other words, for many that is precisely the basis for encompassing morality objectively.
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Why can’t we just say there is a secular reason to invent morality and ethics where that reason is called survival necessity, because without either this world wouldn’t be able to function whatsoever.
Frankly, neither morality or ethics needs a God to justify their existence. Divinity isn’t necessary for both.
Christianity is defined by the Deification of Jesus Christ. Argue against your own belief-system at your leisure. I’d like to see it…
AKA. “Christians”
Jews who accept Christ as LORD ought to convert; they are logically and rationally obligated to do so.
Indeed we can… they’re called “Group Survival Strategies” and rely upon cooperation from different sets of organisms / species / genes / families / tribes / clans. In humans, it’s called “Group Think” and it is very, very, highly effective and reinforced. Leftist “Virtue Signaling” is a public and private methodology of ‘signaling’ to other Leftists, that they are “on the same team”. On Philosophy forums, this means defending specific cultural behaviors and ideologies.
It is practiced everyday, even and especially on this forum.
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Ghislaine cuts a deal with the Trump Administration. I suspect she’ll go into Witness Protection anonymity of some kind in response. I guess and hope they’ll throw a lot of Lib Leftist Democrats under the bus in exchange for the testimony. Obviously Trump and Trump Admin allies are going to be excused and any sex crimes they committed will be swept under the rug.
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Or Jesus was one of them. They were there first. Again, there is a range of belief and commitment. If it makes you happy to set arbitrary boundaries on people, go ahead, I can’t stop you. But, name and form are human inventions of where we are at in evolutionary scheme of things. Fitness beats truth when it comes to natural selection. Religion in the best sense points beyond the boundaries that divide people. That includes the symbol of Christ who preached, practiced and died for love of one’s neighbor as one’s self, a principle he didn’t invent because it is found in Judaism’s text called the Torah. When religion inverts that principle it becomes exclusivism, hate, and the perpetrator the worst evils on the planet—war, genocide, famine, etc.
How is it “My Boundary”, isn’t it what you Christians and Jews believe within yourselves???
Am I not just reporting your Abrahamic beliefs, back to you?
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No. You’re bound by your definitions. I just explained to you how it isn’t in the post you’re responding to.
No. That’s an abstraction you’re superimposing on me that doesn’t apply. You’re merely projecting your own Abrahamic assumptions.
Just as many believe America sustains a “deep state” in regard to both foreign policy and the economy, some suspect in turn there is a “deep state” in regard to…sex? Something along the lines of, say, Eyes Wide Shut?
So, if well-known Republicans/conservatives as well as well-known Democrats/liberals are embedded in the Epstein scandal, both have an incentive to keep it all hush-hush.
Just out of curiosity, what was the position of the Obama and the Biden Justice Department in regard to Epstein?
The guy was 1] murdered or 2] committed suicide back in 2019.
In fact, if you Google Bill Clinton the top link is “bill clinton and jeffrey epstein”.
So, this scandal might actually be the Big One, but both parties would prefer it not to be.
Then the part where someone suggested that, if it does begin to explode, Trump might need to create a diversion…an economic or foreign policy crisis…to drive it off the front pages.
Uh, stay tuned?
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I see it in combination with the incredible compliance in not criticising Israel for its abominable deeds in Gaza and the West Bank, suggesting that the Mossad has been working to support AIPAC in getting Western politicians to comply. Some politicians are so implicated that you suspect that there is also something dirty going on.
Of course, some are just committed Christian or Jewish Zionists, but with others, I suspect that either money or blackmail is playing a role. Of course, the goal is not just getting rid of Palestinians, but eventually “re-claiming” the legendary realm of David, which means it’s not over for a long time.
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Okay, got it, you see no logical inconsistency in today’s “Jews for Jesus” being effectively the same as Christians by definition of their stated beliefs…
I guess some of us just have higher rational standards when it comes to Belief, Faith, and Religion Felix…
It’s not just the modern Jews for Jesus sect. The Jesus movement started as a Jewish sect and evolved into groups with range of beliefs before it was standardized Into a creed under emperor Constantine.
Your attitude is a textbook example of chauvinism, the unreasonable belief in the superiority of one’s own group and corresponding disdain for other groups or ways of thinking. Chauvinism involves a strong, often prejudiced assertion of that belief and a dismissal or denigration of the ways of others.
Chauvinistic behavior may be a way for you to compensate for your own feelings of inadequacy and low self-esteem. By asserting the superiority of your group, you might be trying to elevate your own status and feel better about yourself.
Or at least that’s how it seems to me based on the way you interact with people on ILP. Hopefully, it’s different for you in real life. Your attitude reminds me of the posture of I’m OK you’re not OK in transactional analysis. The payoff is that you feel good about yourself at the expense of other people’s feelings. How’s that working for you?
I do admit that sometimes I enjoy the thrill of argument, battle, and debate of ideas. But, ultimately, I do want The Truth more. I want you to learn. I want me to learn. I want ILP to learn, despite its poor history of such. So some of us ARE here for Philosophy.
As far as basic definitions ago, I don’t think there’s much room for debate. “Christians” are those who broke-away from Pharisee Jews in ancient Israel, because of their refusal to adhere to God’s Laws. Thus the New Covenant was produced, through LORD Jesus Christ, God made Flesh. Since then, modern “Jews” are Saturn-worshipers, Satan-worshipers. They still practice forms of Child Sacrifice in secret, hence their lead and heading Abortion and Eugenics institutions. They are ideologically, religiously, and politically motivated. They believe they can “PILPUL” against God’s Edict and Word, Law.
Our Time, which we are born, constitutes a great religious war–by which Evangelical (((Protestant))) “Christians” revel and adjulate Israel-Jews in the Middle East, acting as servile, loyal, Goyim. Servants of Pharisee Jews, as they are instructed to do. There are countless reasons for this, we can go over in more appropriate threads.
Obviously I have a lot of strong opinions and beliefs on these matters… confront them at your leisure.
I believe that, according to the “Katie Johnson” (unsubstantiated) claims, that Trump was lured to have sex with minors (possibly age 12 or 13) by Epstein at his mansion (EDIT). If that did occur, long before their falling out, then only Israel Mossad would have the tapes at this point. Since Epstein’s primary mode of being was to blackmail influential and powerful people in compromised situations (underage sex), as with Prince Andrew as the primary example, then it makes immediate sense why Trump is so beholden to Netanyahu – in addition to Israel Zionist bankrolling the 2024 Trump campaign.
So Trump is compromised on every angle. This explains his obvious guilty ‘tells’ in matters when confronted over Epstein, and their two-facing every attempt at clarity. The Trump Admin have fumbled the Epstein matter over and over, because of the foundation of these accusations. Unlike the other ‘rape’ and sexual assault claims, made in addition to the Epstein scandal, there is a fundamental difference between Democrat based political accusations through lawfare, and Mossad Israel intelligence running blackmail rings on US politicians.
Interview with “Katie Johnson”:
I wouldn’t have stumbled on any of this if Trump handled the Epstein claims effectively. Instead his constant backtracking and double-speaking made me suspicious to look further. He surely acts guilty.
Furthermore, I believe Democrats and Leftists threw everything they had at Trump and none of it sticked. So why didn’t they use Epstein? Because the Epstein files implicate Clinton (both Bill and Hillary) and Obama. Thus, the Epstein files turned over to the American populace to go after and sus out. The Trump Admin backtracking and two-facing on the matter, demonstrates the deep matter of Epstein, sex ring blackmail, and Compromat levaraged over and against the US government from outsiders, specifically Israel and Mossad.
Then it becomes a question about how the US populace can actually insert an American Representative into the institutions of power, WITHOUT being compromised by foreign governments and powers…
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