Thoughts on reincarnation and the soul

Firstly I should say that I’m on the fence about whether there’s any sort of afterlife at all. For me, as a Pagan, what’s important is this life, and making the best of it that we possibly can. I do, however, think that there’s a life-force, or spirit, that animates all living things, but whether this equates to those things having a soul, by which I mean a continuing individual identity, is another matter.

But if such a thing is possible, what form could it take? Reincarnation seems to be a very popular option, and I’ve met a lot of people who are convinced that it exists, even to the extent of being able to recount details of previous lives, which they have either spontaneously remembered, or have accessed via some sort of meditation. But to be honest, the more concrete the details, the less convinced I am, as it seems to me, that if anything like that exists, we would not be able to know much about it. I’ve even known people who claim to remember future lives, and who say that reincarnation isn’t linear. If this is the case, then we might all be the same person, reincarnated billions and billions of times over. And that’s not even including animals, plants, and so on. It all gets a bit ridiculous.

Another rather thorny subject is karma. In the Hindu concept, reincarnation and karma are inextricably linked, and the ultimate goal is to escape the cycle of life, death and suffering. But for most Pagans, at least those who believe in reincarnation, it’s a joyous thing, by which they will know their loved ones over and over again through all of time. Most do, however, accept a form of karma. Even I do, to an extent, but only in the sense of what goes around, comes around, and it’s very much something that happens in this life, rather than the next. In other words, if you’re friendly and helpful to people, they tend to be in return, though obviously, it’s not a hard and fast rule.

If an individual soul exists, where is it? Perhaps it’s made of this dark matter that we keep hearing about, which is supposedly far more abundant than normal matter. Seems like a bit of a cop out, though, trying to explain one unknown thing with another unknown thing, but it remains a possibility, I suppose.

I suspect that if a definitive answer to any of these questions were possible, we’d have found it a very long time ago, and human history would have turned out very differently. But this is not a bad thing, in my opinion. The fact that we don’t know for sure is surely more interesting than being certain.

Dark matter doesn’t interact with normal matter enough for it to be any kind of explanation of the soul or the mind. That’s what makes it dark - it has almost no interaction with the matter we know of (they interact through gravity alone, which is as far as I know the weakest fundamental force).

If you’re comfortable with the soul being made of some kind of matter, why not just normal matter? There’s nothing that makes dark matter fundamentally more capable of being the substance of a soul - maybe the soul you refer to is just made up of the normal matter between your ears.

Yes, if we define the soul simply as the mind, I fully agree. I was thinking more in terms of something that survives death, though, in which case, I’m not at all sure it exists.

Many physicists have an eternalist idea of time, or a “block universe” conception, which basically means every moment of your consciousness always exists - just because you’re experiencing now right now doesn’t mean now is more real than any other moment. One could argue that’s a point of view that has meaningful overlap with a mind that survives death - death is a moment, and all moments after that death are equally permanently real as moments before that death.

If consciousness ends at biological death, minds can’t be transferred/shared to/with other bodies, and if accepting eternalist view, they are only eternal in the moments when the body is alive/dead (like Schrodinger’s cat, but cuz freeze frame).

An interesting idea, and vaguely similar to the idea that instead of reincarnation, we just live the same life, over and over again. I can’t help feeling that there’s more to it, though, but what that is, is impossible to say.

…which is an interesting juxtaposition. Minds can transfer from moment-body to moment-body… but… cannot survive the freeze frame of death.

Minds can apparently be turned off, then on again later. In comas, for example, or even sleep, depending on how we define mind.

That folks remember their dreams, & conversations heard in coma, argues against that.

Slowing of thoughts does not equate to a mind being turned off, either.

Some folks even regain consciousness when put “under” during surgery, though unable to move. It’s not a mind shut-off.

Which reminds me of the reports that people in comas sometimes make, of leaving their bodies, but remaining conscious.

OBEs & NDEs, yep.

Relevant in both threads.

I think the distinction between something that’s alive, and something that isn’t, is pretty much arbitrary. I mentioned fire as an example. And then there’s the universe itself, an incredibly complex thing that evolves and changes.

A few thoughts:

  1. you might find the work of Ian Stevenson interesting. He also has people who have carried on his work.
  2. Hindu notions of Karma and reincarnation are, from my perspective, infected by political and castes biases. The way they are schematized justify the suffering of, for example, untouchables or the luxury of the upper castes. Of course, Hinduism is unbelievable diverse, but there is that tendency in many of it branches.
  3. One doesn’t have to have an ontological explanation in advance. One can have experiences, which may or may not lead to belief.

Thank you, I hadn’t heard of him. It seems like he did some interesting work.

Yes I agree, I’m no fan of the Hindu caste system, for example. And the idea that people are punished in one life for things they did in a previous life is disgusting, to be honest, and brings the whole idea of reincarnation into disrepute.

Do you feel the same way about the conception many Christians have that some may be punished in the afterlife?

Yes, I think the idea of eternal punishment in Hell is a very evil idea.

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Couldn’t agree more