Thread for mundane ironists

[iambiguous]

Abyss

“You know what they say. The living are only a species of the dead, aren’t they? And a very rare species at that. The cradle rocks over the abyss.” Adrian McKinty

Sounds familiar, doesn’t it?

“I am scared of snapping. That something, some random day, it will simply make ‘click’ in my mind and all of the sudden I will absolutely lose my mind. In other words having gazed into the abyss for too long. Go completely and totally insane! How does one descend into madness? What makes one click so all of the sudden life is upside down and people don’t know themselves anymore?” Ryan Gelpke

Well, click of course. The other one.

“No. All I say is that it is not argument that convinces me of the necessity of a future life, but this: when you go hand in hand with someone and all at once that person vanishes there, into nowhere, and you yourself are left facing that abyss, and look in. And I have looked in…” Leo Tolstoy

And now, Leo?

“If a person who has come to the edge of the abyss does not go further, it is because things in that person’s life stronger than that abyss are pulling him back powerfully!” Mehmet Murat ildan

Distractions I call them.

“I refuse to throw her into the abyss.” Nick Oliveri

So, should someone throw [you know who] into the abyss?

“Another abyss that we have to cross, another abyss that we have to stare into in the hope it won’t stare back to us.” Ryan Gelpke

New thread?

[iambiguous]

Suicide

“I didn’t want to wake up. I was having a much better time asleep. And that’s really sad. It was almost like a reverse nightmare, like when you wake up from a nightmare you’re so relieved. I woke up into a nightmare.” Ned Vizzini

Tell me about it!

“I am constantly torn between killing myself and killing everyone around me.” David Levithan

New thread, right?

“…and then, I have nature and art and poetry, and if that is not enough, what is enough?” Vincent van Gogh

Uh, fame and fortune?

“Did you really want to die?"
“No one commits suicide because they want to die.”
“Then why do they do it?”
"Because they want to stop the pain.” Tiffanie DeBartolo

Right, God?

“The thought of suicide is a great consolation: by means of it one gets through many a dark night.” Friedrich Nietzsche

Hundreds of them so far. Well, dozens anyway.

“There comes a time when you look into the mirror and you realize that what you see is all that you will ever be. And then you accept it. Or you kill yourself. Or you stop looking in mirrors.” J. Michael Straczynski

Of course: https://youtu.be/vLAQiwEGGKs?si=5s-mx2HFHmzj17F1

[iambiguous]

Bullshit

“I hate the moments between
meeting someone and leaving
someone

there’s this brief feeling of trust
before the paranoia that seeps in

once you begin to realize that
they’re just like everyone else
you’ve met before

different person
same bullshit" R.H. Sin

What, even virtually?

“She might not be as strong as everyone she met, or as fast, or even as smart. But she could bullshit with the best of them. Combine that with a license to carry, and a girl could more than get by in this life.” Laura Lippman

Yes, even virtually.

“Someone who lies and someone who tells the truth are playing on opposite sides, so to speak, in the same game. Each responds to the facts as he understands them, although the response of the one is guided by the authority of the truth, while the response of the other defies that authority and refuses to meet its demands. The bullshitter ignores these demands altogether. He does not reject the authority of the truth, as the liar does, and oppose himself to it. He pays no attention to it at all. By virtue of this, bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are.” Harry G. Frankfurt

Bullshit?

“Bullshit is the glue that binds us as a nation.” George Carlin

Democracy some call it.

“Our natures are, indeed, elusively insubstantial—notoriously less stable and less inherent than the nature of other things. And insofar as this is the case, sincerity itself is bullshit.” Harry G. Frankfurt

See, I told you.

“I wasn’t sure which was worse - to know you were a liar or to believe your own bullshit.” Ellen Cook

Actually, it’s still believing the bullshit of others.

[iambiguous]

Stupidity

“If this man had not twelve thousand a year, he would be a very stupid fellow." Jane Austen

What’s that in bitcoins?

“When you’re surrounded by stupidity, self-preservation isn’t a sin.” Meljean Brook

Who the fuck has ever thought otherwise?

“Can anything be more disgusting than to hear people called ‘educated’ making small jokes about eating ham, and showing themselves empty of any real knowledge as to the relation of their own social and religious life to the history of the people they think themselves witty in insulting?..The best thing that can be said of it is, that it is a sign of the intellectual narrowness—in plain English, the stupidity which is still the average mark of our culture.” George Eliot

Of course, we can readily Trump that today.

“Stupidity is like bumping into a wall all the time. After a while you get tired of it and try to look the situation over and see if there’s a doorway somewhere." Robert Anton Wilson

Let’s double our attempt to find one here.

“I admit that I myself am far from having a complete command of every topic I touch on, but my knowledge of my subject is always greater than the interest or the understanding of my auditors. You see, there is one very good thing about mankind; the mediocre masses make very few demands of the mediocrities of a higher order, submitting stupidly and cheerfully to their guidance” Alfred de Vigny

Let’s all admit that. You first, of course.

“It’s the fools that make all the trouble in the world, not the wicked.” L.M. Montgomery

Well, if only up in the clouds here.

[iambiguous]

Abyss

“We never know self-realization. We are two abysses – a well staring at the sky.” Fernando Pessoa

I’ll let you into mine if you let me into yours.

“What a tiny part of the boundless abyss of time has been allotted to each of us – and this is soon vanished in eternity; what a tiny part of the universal substance and the universal soul; how tiny in the whole earth the mere clod on which you creep.”― Marcus Aurelius

The human condition, let’s call it.

“There is a way to overcome every abyss, as long as your mind does not see the abyss as insurmountable!” Mehmet Murat ildan

Well, not counting the last one.

“If you become involved with me, you will be throwing yourself into the abyss.” Franz Kafka

Headlong as it were.

“We run heedlessly into the abyss after putting something in front of us to stop seeing it.” Blaise Pascal

That can’t be good.

[b]“Ignorance is not bliss, it is an abyss.” C.A.A. Savastano[/i]

Like it can’t be both.

[iambiguous]

Suicide

“Killing oneself is, anyway, a misnomer. We don’t kill ourselves. We are simply defeated by the long, hard struggle to stay alive. When somebody dies after a long illness, people are apt to say, with a note of approval, ‘He fought so hard.’ And they are inclined to think, about a suicide, that no fight was involved, that somebody simply gave up. This is quite wrong.” Sally Brampton

Tell me about it. Twice so far.

“It is not worth the bother of killing yourself, since you always kill yourself too late.” Emil Cioran

Too late for what?

"Cowardice is nothing to do with it - suicide takes considerable courage…No, what’s selfish is to demand another to endure an intolerable existence, just to spare families, friends, and enemies a bit of soul-searching.” David Mitchel

Exactly!

“The only difference between a suicide and a martyrdom really is the amount of press coverage.” Chuck Palahniuk

My guess: not always.

“Let them think what they liked, but I didn’t mean to drown myself. I meant to swim till I sank – but that’s not the same thing.” Joseph Conrad

New thread?

“Suicide is man’s way of telling God, ‘You can’t fire me - I quit!’” Bill Maher

Tell that to the Grim Reaper.

[iambiguous]

Umberto Eco from Foucault’s Pendulum

I believe that what we become depends on what our fathers teach us at odd moments, when they aren’t trying to teach us. We are formed by little scraps of wisdom.

Next up: bigger scraps of stupidity.

I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

Of course: define harmless.

Each of us is sometimes a cretin, a fool, a moron, or a lunatic. A normal person is just a reasonable mix of these components, these four ideal types.

Of course: define ideal.

As the man said, for every complex problem there’s a simple solution, and it’s wrong.

What, even up in the clouds?

Any fact becomes important when it’s connected to another.

My guess: more or less.

We were clever enough to turn a laundry list into poetry.

Or, perhaps, ignorant enough to believe it?

[iambiguous]

Absurdity

“The individual can do nothing and yet he can do everything. In that wonderful unattached state you understand why I exalt and crush him at one and the same time. It is the world that pulverizes him and I who liberate him. I provide him with all his rights.” Albert Camus

And how absurd is that?

“So I can say with confidence that sometimes the only way to cope is to laugh at the absurdity of it all…the absurdity of the very concept of “normal.” The absurd arrogance of those who take pride in their normalcy…and the absurdity of caring what those people think of you.” Ezra Claytan Daniels

And how absurd is that?

“The game has no beginning or end; it has been going on from beginningless time and will continue for an infinite time to come. Nor does it reflect the purposes of some divine creator; there is no rhyme or reason to it - the game simply is.” Lawrence A. Babb

If only virtually, here.

“Today, I am going to kill myself. Or maybe tomorrow, I don’t know.” Simon Brass

Decisions, decisions…

“He was perfectly conscious of the absurdity of his behavior, but he was incapable of changing it. This absurdity was an essential part of him. It was probably the most basic element of his personality.” Roland Topor

Like me, right?

“If I had a lot of money, I would buy a lot of things that I don’t need.” Ljupka Cvetanova

Who wouldn’t?

[iambiguous]

Stupidity

“It never ceases to amaze me that in times of amazing human suffering somebody says something that can be so utterly stupid.” Robert Gibbs

Though from time to time it’s just plain ignorance.

“One can fight evil but against stupidity one is helpless.” Henry Miller

Being optimistic.

“I’d say the depths of his stupidity have yet to be plumbed, and yours is comin’ up fast on the inside turn.” Craig Johnson

Let’s plumb yours.

“Are you aware that humanity is just a blip? Not even a blip. Just a fraction of a fraction of what the universe has been and will become? Talk about perspective. I figure I can’t feel so entirely stupid about saying what I said because, first of all, it’s true. And second of all, there will be no remnant of me or my stupidity. No fossil or geographical shift that can document, really, even the most important historical human beings, let alone my paltry admissions.” Meg Mullins

How comforting.

“…it’s just another one of those things I don’t understand: everyone impresses upon you how unique you are, encouraging you to cultivate your individuality while at the same time trying to squish you and everyone else into the same ridiculous mould. It’s an artist’s right to rebel against the world’s stupidity.” E.A. Bucchianeri

Hear! Hear!

“Colon thought Carrot was simple. Carrot often struck people as simple. And he was.
Where people went wrong was thinking that simple meant the same thing as stupid.” Terry Pratchett

So, here, how do you tell them apart?

[iambiguous]

Bullshit

“Life begins when we get tired of our own bullshit. We must all get bloody tired of our own bullshit, in order for our lives to begin.” C. JoyBell C.

Talk about bullshit?

“Bullshit is unavoidable whenever circumstances require someone to talk without knowing what he is talking about. Thus the production of bullshit is stimulated whenever a person’s obligations or opportunities to speak about some topic exceed his knowledge of the facts that are relevant to that topic." Harry G. Frankfurt

That’s me here, isn’t it? Or, sure, you.

"Art suffers the moment other people start paying for it. The more you need the money, the more people will tell you what to do. The less control you will have. The more bullshit you will have to swallow. The less joy it will bring.” Hugh MacLeod

Ah, the art industrial complex.

“The only way to efficiently battle evil is to copy enough to know how to counter each argument, yet not enough to believe all the bullshit.” Will Advise

So, how’s that not working out for you?

“Everything anyone says when they have an agenda is bullshit, and bullshit isn’t necessarily false, but it’s never really the truth either. So when someone’s bullshitting, you need to pay a little more attention.” Caliban Darklock

Uh, read everything we post? At least twice?

“Any actor who tells you that they have become the people they play, unless they’re clearly diagnosed as a schizophrenic, is bullshitting you.” Gary Oldman

Let’s run this by Daniel Day-Lewis.

[iambiguous]

Sex

“The villains were always ugly in books and movies. Necessarily so, it seemed. Because if they were attractive—if their looks matched their charm and their cunning—they wouldn’t only be dangerous. They would be irresistible.” Nenia Campbell

And not just me, I suspect.

“We fucked a flame into being.” D.H. Lawrence

What though?

“Sexually progressive cultures gave us literature, philosophy, civilization and the rest, while sexually restrictive cultures gave us the Dark Ages and the Holocaust.” Alan Moore

But why stop there?

“I recall certain moments, let us call them icebergs in paradise, when after having had my fill of her –after fabulous, insane exertions that left me limp and azure-barred–I would gather her in my arms with, at last, a mute moan of human tenderness (her skin glistening in the neon light coming from the paved court through the slits in the blind, her soot-black lashes matted, her grave gray eyes more vacant than ever–for all the world a little patient still in the confusion of a drug after a major operation)–and the tenderness would deepen to shame and despair, and I would lull and rock my lone light Lolita in my marble arms, and moan in her warm hair, and caress her at random and mutely ask her blessing, and at the peak of this human agonized selfless tenderness (with my soul actually hanging around her naked body and ready to repent), all at once, ironically, horribly, lust would swell again–and ‘oh, no,’ Lolita would say with a sigh to heaven, and the next moment the tenderness and the azure–all would be shattered.” Vladimir Nabokov

Lust begets love more or less than love begets lust.

“The behavior of a human being in sexual matters is often a prototype for the whole of his other modes of reaction in life.” Sigmund Freud

A Freudian slip let’s call it.

“No matter how long or how difficult, we will undo whatever that Moroi boy has done to you."
I managed a wavering smile, tasting blood in my mouth. "You sure about that, Dad? Because he’s done everything to me.” Richelle Mead

For some Dads though that’s no problem at all.

[iambiguous]

Abyss

“Once you start gazing into the abyss of the far right, pretty soon it turns its gaze right back on you. And its gaze is a fearsome thing, a twisted thing, one full of boredom and anger that have calcified into hatred.” Talia Lavin

Trump Inc., for example.

“What hides in plain sight is the inexplicable. It is an absence that is always present. ” Paul Lynch

Yes, virtually, as well.

“Suddenly, one day, out of nowhere, an enormous abyss opened up beneath our feet and I was staring into a face I didn’t recognize.” Woody Allen

Interiors, of course.

“We all know the classic scene in the cartoons: the cat reaches the precipice but goes on walking, ignoring the fact that there is no ground under his feet; it starts to fall only when it looks down and notices the abyss.” Slavoj Žižek

Let’s run this by Wile E. Coyote.

“When we face the Abyss, we stare into a mirror. In Shinto temples, there is a mirror. The purpose of this mirror is to remind the Murid of the fact that to see REALITY, it is necessary to see both oneself and the illusory nature of the self.” Laurence Galian

Ask me how that’s working out.

“A great relationship … breaches the barriers of a lofty solitude, subdues its strict law, and throws a bridge from self-being to self-being across the abyss of dread of the universe.” Martin Buber

You and Thou in other words.

[iambiguous]

Suicide

“A book is a suicide postponed.” Emil Cioran

What’s that make a post here then?

“The literal meaning of life is whatever you’re doing that prevents you from killing yourself.” Albert Camus

Uh, define literal?

“The parts of me that used to think I was different or smarter or whatever, almost made me die.” David Foster Wallace

So, what did push him over the edge?

“They tell us that Suicide is the greatest piece of Cowardice… That Suicide is wrong; when it is quite obvious that there is nothing in this world to which every man has a more unassailable title than to his own life and person.” Arthur Schopenhauer

Women too these days.

“I’m the girl nobody knows until she commits suicide. Then suddenly everyone had a class with her.” Tom Leveen

Don’t look at me.

“If I had no sense of humor, I would long ago have committed suicide.” Mahatma Gandhi

Not many that’s not applicable to.

[iambiguous]

Umberto Eco from Foucault’s Pendulum

How clear everything becomes when you look from the darkness of a dungeon.

Uh, start here: https://knowthyself.forumotion.net/t3085-philosophy-now-forum

I believe all sin, love, glory are this: when you slide down the knotted sheets, escaping from Gestapo headquarters, and she hugs you, there, suspended, and she whispers that she’s always dreamed of you. The rest is just sex, copulation, the perpetuation of the vile species.

Just?

“Well, Diotallevi and I are planning a reform in higher education. A School of Comparative Irrelevance, where useless or impossibe courses are given. The school’s aim is to turn out scholars capable of endlessly increasing the number of unnecessary subjects.

There must be hundreds of them by now.

I believe that you can reach the point where there is no longer any difference between developing the habit of pretending to believe and developing the habit of believing.

I knew it!

You are always born under the wrong sign, and to live in this world properly you have to rewrite your own horoscope day by day.

Properly? You first.

But if there is no cosmic Plan? What a mockery, to live in exile when no one sent you there. Exile from a place, moreover, that does not exist.

It’s actually harder than you think.

[iambiguous]

Absurdity

“Basically, control is just an illusion. Far too many factors contribute to everything that happens during a day, even during an hour, a week, a month, a year. And that’s the end of the matter. You think you control something because you think you recognize a certain pattern, so you imagine that you’re always gonna achieve the same results with the same actions. Until something unexpected happens.” Lucian Vicovan

What don’t we control here?

"…today is a good day for murder love hatred sex violence drugs revisionist attitudes anarchy of the sense letters and the like teatime exists in the Mind snarling underground day addiction” Scott C. Holstad

I knew it!

“I adore the absurd and the abnormal; therefore, that’s what I write about. That’s what I need to write about. The mainstream has never turned me on.” Gerri R. Gray

On the other hand, how absurd and how abnormal?

“I know what you’re thinking about,” said Tweedledum, “But it ain’t so, nohow.”
“Contrariwise,” continued Tweedledee, “if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn’t, it ain’t. That’s logic.” Lewis Carroll

Next up: Tweedledumber.

“Faith involves an acceptance of absurdity.” Zadie Smith

A ton of it these days.

We can then rightly presume that we live in a world which is guided by absurdity. The word ‘absurdity’ in this context contrasts with the term ‘reasoning.’ So we live in a world in which reasoning fails. It is a place where the causes do not always lead to the effect.” Nihar Satpathy

See, I told you.

[iambiguous]

Stupidity

“Hundreds of wise men cannot make the world a heaven, but one idiot is enough to turn it into a hell.” Raheel Farooq

Let’s Trump this.

“Optimism and stupidity are nearly synonymous.” Hyman G. Rickover

Define nearly?

“People do not read stupidities with impunity.” Victor Hugo

Not counting their own, of course.

“Francesca: You really are a few biscuits short of breakfast.
His eyebrows furrowed in confusion.
‘You’re a few colors shy of a rainbow?’ she offered. ‘Not pulling a full wagon? Knitting with only one needle? All foam and no beer? Your cheese slid off the cracker? You couldn’t pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel?’
Nicodemus: 'All right. I get it.” Blake Charlton

More to the point, however, do you?

“There are only 2 paths to happiness in life. Utter Stupidity or Exceptional Wealth.” Ziad K. Abdelnour

Next up: exceptional stupidity?

“All the inane, meaningless noises people make that pass for intelligent conversation. They might as well be pigs grunting in the pen." Norma Fox Mazer

Let’s make sure that never happens here!

[iambiguous]

Sex

“Sexually progressive cultures gave us literature, philosophy, civilization and the rest, while sexually restrictive cultures gave us the Dark Ages and the Holocaust.” Alan Moore

Of course: The Irrational in Politics: Brinton, Maurice: 9780961328962: Amazon.com: Books

“The behavior of a human being in sexual matters is often a prototype for the whole of his other modes of reaction in life.” Sigmund Freud

You first.

“I had a feeling that Pandora’s box contained the mysteries of woman’s sensuality, so different from a man’s and for which man’s language was so inadequate. The language of sex had yet to be invented. The language of the senses was yet to be explored.” Anaïs Nin

Pick one [and only one]:
1] venus
2] mars
3] the asteroid belt

“A woman can become a man’s friend only in the following stages - first an acquantaince, next a mistress, and only then a friend.” Anton Chekhov

Let’s run this by…you know.

"Sex pretty much cures everything.” Chuck Palahniuk

For example, in la la land.

“I make love with a focus and intensity that most people reserve for sleep.” Dark Jar Tin Zoo

Yawn.

[iambiguous]

Judgement day

“It’s not over, until the Lord says it’s over.” T.D. Jakes

Let’s run this by the fat lady.

“Ancient Egyptians believed that upon death they would be asked two questions and their answers would determine whether they could continue their journey in the afterlife. The first question was, ‘Did you bring joy?’ The second was, 'Did you find joy?” Leo Buscaglia

Not unlike here then?

“I was thinking that, when my time comes, I should be sorry if the only plea I had to offer was that of justice. Because it might mean that only justice would be meted out to me.” Agatha Christie

I guess we’ll never know.

“…out of the smoke locusts came down on the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth. They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a scorpion when it strikes. During those days people will seek death but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.” Joseph M. Chiron

Bummer.

“I’m halfway to Heaven and halfway to Hell with each breath I take in this mortal shell.” Stanley Victor Paskavich

Then drawn and quartered.

“The only true forms of equality are equality at the Last Judgment and equality before a just court of law; all other attempts at leveling must lead, at best, to social stagnation.” Russel Kirk

Let’s run this by the Supremes.

[iambiguous]

Suicide

“People rarely bring flowers to a suicide.” Jennifer Niven

He wondered if that might include his?

“Nothing in my life has ever made me want to commit suicide more than people’s reaction to my trying to commit suicide.” Emilie Autumn

Hell, that’s not even in my top ten.

“Killing myself was a matter of such indifference to me that I felt like waiting for a moment when it would make some difference.” Fyodor Dostoevsky

You know, being a ridiculous man.

“When people kill themselves, they think they’re ending the pain, but all they’re doing is passing it on to those they leave behind.” Jeannette Walls

Their pain can wait?

“It is good to be a cynic — it is better to be a contented cat — and it is best not to exist at all.” H.P. Lovecraft

Some actually don’t get that part.

“When you’re young and healthy you can plan on Monday to commit suicide, and by Wednesday you’re laughing again.” Marilyn Monroe

She meant Thursday, of course.

[iambiguous]

Umberto Eco from Foucault’s Pendulum

You live on the surface, Lia told me years later. You sometimes seem profound, but it’s only because you piece a lot of surfaces together to create the impression of depth, solidity. That solidity would collapse if you try to stand it up.

Instead, you post it anyway.

Everything is repeated, in a circle. History is a master because it teaches us that it doesn’t exist. It’s the permutations that matter.

Think Trump and MAGA.

They dwell in my light, while I dwell in unbearable darkness, the source of that light.

Don’t you just hate that?

From shit, thus, I extract pure Shinola.

Next up: extracting pure shit from Shinola.

The belief that time is a linear, directed sequence running from A to B is a modern illusion. In fact, it can also go from B to A, the effect producing the cause.

Note some examples, please,

I was the type who looked at discussions of What Is Truth only with a view toward correcting the manuscript. If you were to quote “I am that I am,” for example, I thought that the fundamental problem was where to put the comma, inside the quotation marks or outside.

Has that ever been resolved?