threes, holism and practise

Philosophy Forums Religion and Spirituality
1

I think we tend to miss the fact that life has more dimensions than just satisfying physical needs and wishes or reacting to the continuous tirade of repetitive thoughts. It seems to me that many of us are not able to look at life three-dimensionally, perhaps using the personal, social und universal as a structure, or looking at body, soul and mind, or whatever other triad we have in mind as a concept by which we take a holistic view of life.

We often miss an important factor that we give varying names, whether soul, heart, spirit, psyche or atman and other such forms common to world-views outside of western traditions. We are sure that we have no organ called a soul, and though the heart is often the place in our body where we feel the palpitations of the soul, we generally only experience this aspect of being human when it is shouting at us because we have overheard for so long its warnings.

The soul, or whatever we want to call it, is, also in the interest of a balanced mind, our sense of equilibrium in more than a physical or mental sense. It seems to have a physical aspect in the two halves of the brain, but also we feel the balance (or lack of balance) in emotions, or of male and female attributes, or even the appropriateness (or lack of it) of the intensity of our ego-drive among other things.

These are aspects of being human which we have to actively address, and not something we can ignore for long without suffering disturbances which we call psychological, psychiatric or mental disorders. It is the same with the body (and respectively also the mind), which we have to exercise regularly, care for and feed appropriately, so that disorders are avoided.

Looking at the way we work, with the densification of tasks over the last twenty years, we have increased the peaks and reduced the troughs of work to a minimum, and sometimes even the breaks left to us are expected to be sacrificed, even though it is well documented that performance is better with rest-breaks. Even during physical exercise we are told to pause in between. The question arises why we subject ourselves to continuing stress and whether there is a goal to be gained, or whether we are just surviving.

Habitually doing things which are good for us in a holistic manner, which reach all aspects of our lives, seems to suffer for many people and as a result we are not benefiting from the technological advances, but society is using the technological advance to oust people from the work-market and put the remaining people under more duress. We actually have sold out to Mammon, regardless of what faith we have, and it is true that we can‘t serve both - God and Mammon - but have to choose.

If we see the various religions as expression of this need for holism and the use of epic stories, myth, mythology and analogy to transport very deep truths for which there is a deep feeling, something which ruminates in the depth of our soul, but for which there is no adequate language - as we experience in dreams - we may be able to see that spirituality, as the collective term for numerous and various religious traditions, is something which we desperately need in a world which is more and more a madhouse every day.

Whether three is the number of holism and whether spiritual practise is reduced to what we have come to see in religions around the world, is something we could discuss. What do you think?

2

Edgar Cayce claimed that the human psyche is a trinity of mind, body and soul and that our trinity is our image of God. I think he was correct. If so, each aspect of the trinity needs our active participation in its growth in order for us to achieve the whole, which according to James is the opposite of warring factions within the psyche. To be whole takes work. It also takes a firm persuasion that to be whole (holy) is a desireable human outcome.
We are still involved in the science/technology zeitgeist. These are not evils unless humans are seen as less valuable than they are. Usage of humans to perpetuate profits for the few is inhumane and is probably based on beliefs of inferior and superior humans. Such beliefs can only come from fractured or schismatic psyches.

3

Why is it that so many ‘complete’ people live quality lives that indirectly hurt many others? I’m not even just talking about money. The riches of life are not just from within but without, and riches from without are resources of the earth, all resources being limited. It seems to me that if those claiming to be ‘whole’ were those that we should aspire to emulate, then they would only be enjoying the riches that they can find from within.

4

Who judges that the people hurting others are so “complete”?

Don’t you think that the latent criticism in my OP is actually pointing to the fact that there are far less “complete” people than largely thought, and that those who are, are normally not those exploiting the economic and industrial system?

We have to look further abroad than just “within”, but the personal, social and universal implications of a lack of holism are quite apparent. It is just that human beings are always tempted to run before they can walk and to go to limits which have implications they haven’t foreseen. Science is promising today to solve the problems of the future, and also to clean up the mess the last solutions have made …

5

I’m sure there have been far more capable people address this issue in the past - it would be interesting to find out how many there were. It seems obvious that Cayce was right about human beings projecting their perspectives into their concepts, since we couldn’t imagine something 4-dimensional, except inasmuch as it “blows our minds” #-o

So how do we get there - to this holistic approach? And what do we have to let go of on the way - which seems to me to be more the task than the supposed acquisition of the past?

6

Yes, but I was trying to be subtle and imply that the economic and industrial system is not the only resource of the world. I could just say what I have in mind, but people have been utterly confused when I had done so. But, just think to yourself what so much of the literature of the world speaks of when it speaks of those who compete, that is when it’s not actually speaking of the competion for things that money can buy.

I gathered from the OP that you think it’s likely to be an idle promise. So to get slightly off topic I’d like to speak on your comment about technology taking jobs away.

The economic solution always seemed to be subsidies for those who lost there jobs to machines and higher education, but to what end!?? Virtual reality is of course the end, it seems to be the death of life as we know it. Still just as the debate of an afterlife is valid, so is it valid to debate if humanity can transform itself into something useful in a world devoid of concerns for food and such that is stuck playing games in VR.

But, science doesn’t have to be worshiped. The older generations that have rejected each new advance in technology weren’t simply being onery and unpragmatic, they intuitevly knew the utter uselessness coming out of the progress in technology, so the conscept of pragmatism must change.

To get back on topic I think we need to decide if there is any way at all that one person can judge another to be ‘whole’, that is find a way of objectively defining a whole person, because how can we advocate becoming which we haven’t defined, that is how can we advocate becoming something in which the only example we can give would be at the most ourselves (assuming we personally felt we were 'whole).

7

hmmm, the resources of the world are exploited by the economic and industrial system for the sake of profit which only advances a few people superficially. It doesn‘t help humanity to progress but, in fact, often has the opposite effect.

The real progress would involve developing abilities that help us address as many aspects of being as possible and thereby reduce the importance of the external and increase awareness and spontaneous lovingkindness. It is the discovery of the superiority of quality over quantity wherever possible - competition is rivalry, which can goad us into improving things, but it has too often developed into warfare (with and without bloodshed), which is the opposite.

The problem with the development of technology is that it is developed for itself and not primarily to enhance the lives of human beings. Of course we do have such a knock-on effect, but it is incidental and profit is the goal. In the end it robs people of the hope we all need, and which a lot of us had back in the 1960‘s - 1970‘s, that we are moving away from bad times. What is more, there is no longer an escape from the machine.

Older generations sensed that life was being hyped up and well trodden paths were ridiculed, and development was going along with no clear goal in view. There was a suspicion that it was destructive, and it did change the environment permanently even though its advantages were soon seen through and found only short-termed. The long-term changes brought about monocultures and unemployment. This is about the meaning of life, not just about superficial social changes. People used to work to live and they found themselves living to work.

There is only one way to judge other people - but to do that we have to be mutually genuine and committed to each other. Societies have to find a consensus of opinion and agree on common goals and rules. Wisdom supplies this in a form that has been well and truly tested, even though that doesn‘t mean that it can‘t develop for the better. Only on this basis can we help each other forward. Without it, we fall back into rivalry and the old trappings of organised religion.

8

Bob,

If such an understanding become a social movement, what are the things that would prevent that movement from being co-opted by the entrenched special interests? That’s pretty much what happened to the message brought by Jesus, isn’t it? Being genuine and committment hasn’t been one of our strong points - ever. Forgive my cynicism, but I can’t see such understanding ever being exhibited in but the very few.

9

Yes, of course you are right that we have been this way before, but I believe the fact that we are in the position to know the pitfalls of organised religion and also learn from each other is a great advantage. I don’t believe that there is another way, but the mistakes of the past can help us find the way in the modern age.

It is particularly disconcerting to see that Christianity made all the mistakes of Judaism, as well as many they (even recently) invented, but also that Islam did (or is doing) the same, and having recently coming back from Thailand, hearing about the quarrels that Buddhists were getting themselves into, including the ethnic cleansing in Burma, just shows that we have to avoid becoming ideologic, know of and keep the balance of rules and standards (as with Kungfutse, the Torah, the Dharma etc.) and the ineffable Tao of life, as embodied by Laotse (und Chuangse) the Prophets and Christ, and develop an analogical approach to theistic (or deistic, polytheistic etc.) concepts.

The bottom line is that our judgements, especially with regard to others, must be made in the spirit of the universal golden Rule, albeit in the balance I mentioned above, and in the knowledge that we are, for all our differences, plagued with the same mistakes as everybody else.

I think the problem here has been the moralising of things which need no moralising, and thereby we weaken moral judgement. If we can’t be genuine and committed at the same time, there is only one way things will go – into strife and destruction. Virtually into a self-made hell. I’m sure you agree, we have made leaps and bounds in that direction already.

I don’t see you comment as cynicism but rather as the scepticism of someone who has already been burnt enough, and who wants to avoid being burnt again. However, many of us have been through this, and although it is enough to make us careful, I still think we have to be courageous and recognise that without being genuine and committed to each other, we carry on down the path we are already going.

10

I’d go back to James. (NT). To be holy is to be whole, that is without warring factions of our trinite psyche. The task toward wholeness would be to bring harmony to our psyche–sound mind, sound body sound spirit. This takes work and humility. Each aspect of the psyche, if dominant, makes the others recessive.
The problem of why holism is so difficult is that many believe the Self needs explaining in terms of acquistions, not that it is being in its own right.

11

Holism, in the sense you are using it, requires some sort of physical stability. The reason acquisitions dominate thought is that too many on this ball of mud are pre-occupied with obtaining food, clothing, shelter, and safety from being killed. For them, contemplating their “trinite psyche” is a high class problem they will never have the leisure time to explore.

George Carlin asked the right question: “When will Jesus bring the porkchops?” It sounds like a Carlin funny, but behind that is the recognition that abject poverty will keep us from ever finding trust in, or committment to, our fellow man.

I’ve mentioned this before, but it fits here again. There is a watershed question that precedes even golden rule. In Genesis, God questions Cain about the whereabouts of Abel. Cains lies and asks the rhetorical essential question: Am I my brother’s keeper? As long as we feel that the answer is negotiable, then “holism” of any sort remains impossible. Too few see that simple question as a charge to answer affirmatively and live accordingly.

12

This is obviously becoming a “chicken or the egg” paradox, where we have to ask what must come first – feed everybody and then start educating, or do we try to do it parallel, educating and feeding at the same time? We have to start somewhere and it will always be the task for a minority to take the first steps and encourage others to follow. The problem for me is, if you can only operate with minorities to begin with, how do you avoid the exclusivism and at the same time keep the message on line?

I am sure that we can start with people in our house, in our street, in our town – to begin with, those we like or like us, then those we have no quarrels and gradually work towards those who are a problem to us. We don’t have to embrace the whole world right at the beginning.

But isn’t that the lesson of this story? It seems to me that we have the proposal, the hidden and apparent dangers, and ideas for avoiding those pitfalls in our hands. Isn’t it just a question of getting on with it – spontaneously helping to make things possible?

13

Bob,

I feel like we’ve been through this before. Maybe a dozen or more times. Yes, we ALL need to wake up. But we remain the whisperers, the doers in private among the few. I see nothing on the horizon that suggests a universal wake up call. Rather, the current world economic situation seems to be pushing us in the wrong direction. There isn’t less poverty, there is more. There is nothing to prevent us from attempting to demonstrate awakening and combatting poverty at the same time, but if history is any indicator, reducing poverty only feeds greed and the pursuit of acquisition at someone else’s expense. The message that we must begin to work together, to care for one another, remains as illusive as ever. One can only hope that the few persevere as in the past. It isn’t a new concept, but the message has always been drown out by self-interest instead of other-interest. I remain very unsure that as a species, we are even capable of the necessary amounts of compassion and empathy to ever awaken as a whole. As destructive as ME FIRST is, it seems that we are hardwired to pursue our eventual destruction. I wish it were different, but I see nothing that suggests we will ever change our course. We need a Second Coming…

14

I agree with all you say and turn to the “nevertheless” of faith, which is the source of hope of miracles in the face of impossibilities. “And so remain faith, hope, love, but the biggest of these is love…” says Paul. How can we give love, compassion or charity a spontaneous form of expression which doesn’t make the mistake of making people dependant, but helps them on their feet?

However, we are (if anybody) the second coming … it was never a divine intervention by shifting material or overcoming the laws of nature, but rather through kenosis an incarnation or “Menschwerdung” of godly attributes in human beings, that is the awakening of the latent potential of mankind – of the second Adam – the new generation of Mankind that has been yearned for since the “axial ages” (a term coined by the German philosopher Karl Jaspers for the period from 800 to 200 BC, during which an evolutionary thinking appeared).

We see this ideal growing in the story of Cain and Abel, whereby the first archetype of the new man is killed by his brother out of jealousy. Later, a second archetype is called to “come out” and begin a new line of people, another is beaten up and sold as a slave, another leads his people out of slavery, and so on … the lesson of the OT is leading up to the new covenant of a completely different type with a new generation who embody the law, and “know” God. This struggle has been going on for at least 2500 years in different cultures and begs the question, whether the very real threat of making this planet uninhabitable for human life is the final call up to finally get down to it.

With the amount of knowledge amassed over the centuries together with the ability to analyse the developments of that last 2500 years, it can be said that we have never had a better chance – and also never been quite so up against the wall. When I look at the information I can get, it really does seem to me that the threes of wisdom, especially the triad of faith, hope and love, are guiding us down a winding narrow path which can lead us to salvation from ourselves, whereas the broad highways of this world are leading to sure destruction and the scenes of apocalypse, which have trouble the seers of the world for centuries.

Also, I believe that we must grasp some kind of holism, emphasizing the priority of the survival of the whole as against only giving its parts priority, pertaining to all human beings across times and places, and with all dimensions of humanity (evolutionary, biophysical, sociopolitical, economic, cultural, psychological, etc.) and, keeping the above triad in place, find what comes out on the bottom line.

We also must use the known practises of humanity to discover how we can reverse the processes of history which have seen us grasp, use, exploit and thereby destroy more and more natural resources, and find purpose and happiness in letting go and letting grow the latent possibilities for our race as a part of the biosphere that has given us life, discovering the sacred female and sacred male aspects of being.

Quite some task, and it is a question of whether the “dark side of the force” or the negative or inappropriate potential of mankind, will allow us to do it. May the force be with you! :smiley: :violence-swords:

15

Ayup.

16

I honestly think you’re overthinking this… We are mammels that have evolved big fat brains, in which allot of shit can go wrong… or right… funky things can happen for strange reasons, giving rise to all sorts of emotions, sensations, and even groundbreaking ideas.

This whole “find balance in life” song and dance that us “spiritually” inclined people tend to speak about can be described as healthy brain chemistry and wiring… we can “reprogram” ourselves to thrive under most any circumstances, given a proper diet and exercise to fuel the chemistry. I’m not saying that process is easy… but it certainly isn’t aided by making the matter more complicated through the introduction of an “Allegorical” language (religion) that only a very few seem to comprihend, much less able to use to their advantage… for every person aided by this another is destroyed by it… and sometimes they don’t go quietly… they fly a plane into a building…

Things change… who knows if it’s better to rule in hell than serve in heaven… but I think it’s best to grow (up), make your own home and leave your father’s behind.

17

James 3:17 -4:1.
For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peacable, and easy to be entreated, full of mercy and goodfruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
From whence comes wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?

The wars outside the psyche begin with the wars inside it–a direct path from the members of the psyche to the members of the human race.

18

On aquisitions–I’m wondering if anyone can set a standard as to what is enough and what is not enough. The key word for ego is “More”. Jesus provided the fish; it’s up to us to provide the pork chops. :smiley:

19

Agreed, but …. what are you saying …

I think you are not taking into account that people recognised a long time ago that there is a “soul aspect” of a healthy life which needs to be spoken to differently than to the rational mind. Allegorical stories, as well as chanting, singing and dancing, but also smell, touch etc. all play a role in awakening the bodies own healing capacity. Also meditation and contemplation, ritual and rite can all have a healing effect in the right frame of mind. Well-being isn’t measured rationally, but if it feels good, it is good – and many people differ in opinions about what feels good.

You throw in loosely the suicide bombers, but recently in Thailand I was talking to somebody well versed in eastern history and he said to me that suicide attacks have been common throughout history, especially when people saw themselves pitted against an overpowerful enemy. Would many of the things, which are deemed the negative sides of religion, have occurred if there was no religion? The short answer is yes, they would have, because they are not purely religious actions. Recently I was plagued by the film “Cowboys and Aliens” and was very curious that the method which was adopted to get rid of the overpowerful aliens was … a suicide bombing.

The same is with regard to child abuse – a terrible thing and especially in the church, but 99% of such abuse takes place in families. It happens in church-based organisations because they resemble to a certain degree the family, where a high degree of trust is regarded as normal. Over 50 years ago, in a military environment, I was molested as a child, again in circumstances where trust was regarded as normal. There a numerous accusations made against religion as though it is something that only takes place in churches etc. but clearly they don’t.

Yes, I am a prime example of that – I left the country at 19 and have only returned on holiday since. But this “rule in hell or serve in heaven” stuff is surely garbage and I wouldn’t have expected it from you.

20

I happen to agree with this, and I think it is because humanity has basically gone outside of natural selection, eugenics, etc. For so long that they turned into crap. It takes allot of years to evolve properly. Even after a long time, the species which evolved is still highly imperfect.