Maybe you reupped there… what do I know?
Natural number. The whole is boundless so the number of stars, planets, and even you is infinite. Anyway, we are dealing with time which seems to be continuous. My question is however valid so I ask it again. Can an arbitrary point in the infinite future be reached from now?
Natural number has infinite members yet it is not continuous.
What do you mean continuation?
Arbitrary? Define arbitrary.
They can “switch” places & (so) “blend” together the same way you can put two and two together—connect dots already actually connected—or fail to analyze (a version which goes too far) dots when irreducible.
The scare quotes are because there was no switching and no blending because it was always that way.
[imo] There is no first action. Existence is like an infinitely spinning ring, or a pendulum in non-stop motion.
‘First’ is a line in the sand - our construct. Existence need not obey our mental constructs.
[tab]I think lots of your answers to reality,
and mine, may match -
if you simply cut out your god,
and replace the scope with existence / cosmos.
Also, no anthropomorphizations or supernatural stuff.[/tab]
But that’s getting off topic, and I mean not to derail bahman’s thread.
The only way there can be no first action is if existence is the mind of the one who can sustain (is) that pendulum you mentioned. Because BGV rules out a “self”-contained endless pendulum shifting.
Scare quotes because the shifting is self-contained by no self.
But then I punt back to my previous “why” question. The only thing that makes sense is if it is a whole wave/coil…rather than events repeating in sequence over and over and over and over ad infinitum.
Yes, every arbitrary point in the infinite future can be reached from now. The only point that cannot be reached is the asymptote of the infinite future. The asymptote is an imaginary point beyond the infinite future, like .333…3.
Conversation is going backwards and that has already been addressed. There is no such point because that is a mathematization. Count every node as origin and end, and the entire (whole) collection is the infinite. That is not a collection you are going to be able to count, and the only being who can collect it is not subject to time, but also not exempt from being at every node, which get their being from aforesaid being (referred to above as the store of nature).
I am afraid that I disagree. The infinity is the opposite of finity. Infinity has no end. Something that has no end cannot be reached.
Existence is, regardless of whether one is conscious of it. When life had yet evolved on this planet, the planet was still in a process leading to our being.
I don’t even think we need have this discussion, but when you simply rule out alternate possibilities as a given - it begs a response.
Again, there’s some key differences in our beliefs.
“The Borde–Guth–Vilenkin theorem, or the BGV theorem, is a theorem in physical cosmology which deduces that any universe that has, on average, been expanding throughout its history cannot be infinite in the past but must have a past spacetime boundary.”
Explain to me how it rules out a universe that isn’t always expanding, Ichthus? (The one of expand, crunch - neutralizing each other: i.e. no net expansion)
You respect BGV theory, if it’s not accurate, then reality doesn’t.
Want some some possible critiques to the BGV theory?
(The theory that from what I can see, doesn’t even apply to the Stoic belief)
[tab]
[/tab]
To think we’re at the end of our understanding, when there’s so many questions unanswered, is foolishness.
Perhaps if we asked Mr. Guth why he disagrees, then it could be demonstrated how BGV and a universe with no beginning aren’t exclusive.
As I’m a layman, so I can’t answer directly to the ‘proof’ of the theory - unless it is explained in layman terms.
Sure it can. We reach the infinite future in every moment. We just never reach the end of the infinite future, because the end of the infinite future is only imaginary. Compare ⅔ in decimal notation:
.666…7
If we type or write one 6 per second, we reach the infinite (666…) every second. We just never reach the 7. Every arbitrary 6 behind the decimal point can be reached from now.
Ben JS
I cannot speak for Dr. Guth, but, perhaps he has in mind something like this:
Here is this from my interaction with “Chat GPT” on BGV:
ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.p … 0#p2895380
*As clarified in a subsequent reply, iteration is not a repeated sequence, but a child of the over-fractal.
If the second is a node, I agree with that. All those kinds of numbers equal one, as in the whole. The end/beginning.
I just said “second” for the sake of simplicity. Note that I first said “moment”.
Your whole talk of “nodes”, your namedropping, and your convoluted notes and drawings don’t fool me about the fact that you’re just a believer, by the way.
You wouldn’t be so jaded about my belief if you weren’t yourself a believer.
Which belief is justified with good evidence and grounded in reality… That’s our mutual trajectory, or bust!
“Jaded”? I think not. And a believer is someone who believes without good evidence and rational grounds…
I have answered your questions. Mine go unanswered.
If all believers believed without good evidence, there would be no scientific progress or conflict resolution… etc. Zero consents would be informed. I do believe… with good reason… you are mistaken… that belief is blind.
Where in this thread did I ask a question? And where in this thread did you pose a question to me?
A question is an issue left unresolved in a claim or counterclaim… stated or hidden.