I don’t think I have much to say after that… I guess when it comes to a supposed ‘solution’ to nihilism, what I meant was that to somebody who does not associate to nihilism would see survival (and the continuance to live) as a contradiction. I say that this situation is a paradox, not so much a contradiction, and that their ‘solution’ to understanding nihilism is that “there is a way out” of the initial moment of despair. (and this would not be considered a ‘solution’ to a nihilist, since there are no ‘solutions’ anymore–no positive claims) That ‘solution’ is to survive; and like you mentioned, when it comes to survival, there is no necessity to ‘meaning’ anymore. Why does a flower grow and bloom; why don’t animals throw themselves over cliffs? My response is: this is an absurd question to ask, since it is misunderstanding of why living things continue to survive and live. They live in the same infinite chaos that humans do, but they just haven’t gotten struck with existential anxiety yet… (thanks to our human language/ideas) Ultimately, we can respond however we like, and we do–we can live or we can die–neither inherently matter. (to whom? to nobody and to everybody)
However, I’m still confident that a “true nihilist” would kill him/herself upon realizing the absolute negation of meaning, since then even their emotive drives should not restrict them from their path that brought them to the edge of oblivion–towards suicide. They would walk right over. And in fact, people do commit suicide everyday. So to live and associate with nihilism, why would it even matter whether some people kill themselves or why some people continue to live? I don’t know why it does matter. Regardless, what I’m personally left with are no assumptions for things and I can clearly trace the (very little) meaning within my life (that I have subjectively/socially created) with comfort that I have nothing to hide.
I’m going to rethink this idea of “true nihilism” that’s been floating around… It seems like there’s a grave miscommunication between those who associate with nihilism in any regard with those who claim not to. Where does “true nihilism” get its core identity and definitions from? My initial answer is: it gets its identity from those who despair and choose suicide in the face of living a meaningless life… But there are paradoxes at work, so any “true” conclusions may have more to them that meets the eye.
The poem is very relevant; I haven’t read it since my youth. I now understand its implications as both existential and nihilistic despair. You hit the nail on the head here.
Thank you; yes this is great. If you haven’t noticed already, I enjoy how passionate philosophy like this is very metaphorical and poetic. I see huge differences in philosophies and writings where words come from emotions rather than “strictly mental thought”. I prefer the former.
Joker, it’s rare when you have few words to share with us. I thought this topic would hit a chord with you that would inspire jaded connotations of denouncement. Though, your response could be reflecting your true nihilistic nature. Hmmm…maybe ‘Maybe…’ is a true nihilist’s response.
Your definition of a nihilist sounds sort of final. I looked in Webter’s dictionary and it defines it as: skeptic, cynic, revolutionary, insurgent, anarchist.
Do you think perhaps that those could serve in that capacity without taking one’s life?
I don’t think it’s misunderstanding. It’s more or less “intentional”, I would say.
I guess some people want nihilists and nihilistic ideas to disapper, and they are expressing their hope by associating “nihilism” to suicide.
Probably they are scared of the idea that what they want to believe, ideas, religion, whatever … is only a meaningless piece of arbitrary story not so different from Micky mouse show.
Most people want to preserve the delusion of “absolute value”, “absolute meaning”.
So, they don’t want to see someone happily living without these.
They want to believe that it’s not possible to live without (illusion of) meanings.
They are also seeking something absolute, but they try to find it in something “positive”, which is impossible, as something “positive” and “affirmed so” is limited/confined in the arbitrary basis/criteria employed in the process of affirmation.
So, they find a substitute and stick with it, to stop to dig further.
It’s one of the many ways to stay in the self-induced ignorance.
I’m not sure if you are talking from your experience or just guessing.
When I saw the total meaningless (or what seemed so at that time), I was to die at the moment, without any hesitation, if the subconscious valuing system wasn’t destructed in the next instance.
So, I can imagin someone who is a little slow, or someone with more stiff subconscious mental frame of dying without second thought.
But also I can say for sure that what motivate us toward suicide at the loss of meanings is the result of “positively tainted brain wash” given by parents, education, etc.
Basically, we’ve been told that “valueless” thing shouldn’t exists, which is a pure bullshit.
Also, while our mind is positively tainted, we see the lack of meanings and values as something “negative”.
And “negative” things are more than often seen as “bad”, “wrong”, “evil”, “must not exist”, and so on.
But the lack of all attributes such as meanings and values is totally neutral.
So, as soon as this delusion is destroyed, we are thrown into the limbo state, without much motivation to live nor die.
Although there are still some sort of mechanism that push us to live and die, they are not as strong as the initial counter shock.
Things get more and more subtle, after that.
Well, definition of “nihilist” is also meaningless.
It’s just a convenient way to stereotype self or others. It’s for someone still seeing some values in such a delusional act.
A “True” nihisilt wouldn’t be interested in that, unless such interest surfaces from subconscious part, just before to be destroyed in turn.
But I can understand we may go through many different stages on the way to the possible total anihilation.
