Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

While I hate republicans I also hate democrats equally. Likewise I don’t like Donald Trump either.

With that being said I don’t think there is any grounds to impeach Donald Trump where all of this is basically Banana Republic theatrics by the democrats because the trade war isn’t going so well for them as they receive a lot of funding by the communist Chinese. I think this is the biggest reason for the divide between democrats against the republican party and Donald Trump. The trade war is stopping the financial gravy train enjoyed by the democrats with the Chinese concerning all kinds of corporate kickbacks.

If the democrats succeed they will only divide this nation further and who knows how the republican, libertarian, or constitutional gun toting militia men might react with such a brazen power play.

On the plus side this might collapse the nation even faster where I’m all for it. Lets get everybody fighting and killing each other. :evilfun:

For now I take a neutral position where I’m a bemused observer watching this latest national theatrics.


Let us assume the democrats succeed for a moment, how would they control the political backlash amid a nation that is one the verge of economic collapse?

Also I wonder what they’re thinking really, do they really want a democratic president in power when this economic collapse occurs? What exactly is the political stratagem of all this? :laughing: By keeping him in office they could just blame the republicans for the economic crash not that it would matter all that much because once it occurs both political parties are going to lose control of the nation regardless pretty quickly.

Whatever man… :evilfun: :laughing:

This shit is just too funny. :mrgreen:

Say more on this. What would you consider “grounds to impeach”?

Impeachment is effectively discretionary, the House can vote to impeach and the Senate can vote to remove for any reason that moves them. Whether something qualifies as “high crimes and misdemeanors” is nonjusticiable, so if the House and Senate vote to impeach and remove, there’s no body that can review that decision.

Furthermore, the founders contemplated the use of the impeachment power for what today seem like pretty small offenses. Madison himself argued that the impeachment power would be used as a check on abuse of the pardon power, in which case Trump’s pardon of Arpaio is an impeachable offense by Madison’s lights.

The bar for impeachment is quite a bit lower than it might seem. It’s hard to get a super majority in Senate, given the polarization of our politics and the inevitable blowback on everyone, but Trump has done a dozen things which impartial people agree are bad for the country, bad for the office, and which a president shouldn’t do. Any one of those is an impeachable offense.

I think the backlash would go the other way. Nixon was devestating for Republicans, and a second removal of a Republican president would make them seem like the party of criminals and corruption. That doesn’t sell. Trump is already gutting the Republican base, and a successful removal will cause it to collapse entirely. Even when people disagree with the law and think the process is unfair, a conviction still carries a lot of implicit weight in how people see each other. People believe in spite of themselves that being a convicted criminal means being tainted. Even up to his removal, Nixon had substantial support among Republicans. But almost no one defends him any more; history is written with him cast as villain.

You might be right that some armed people would react in the short term, but their influence is much less than you imagine. The commanders of the armed forces are not fans of Trump, and though the rank and file are, without a Trump loyalist commander, the armed forces will continue to follow orders from the legitimate head of state, and any red state militia is easily outmatched by the actual military; the Second Amendment has effectively failed, thank god.

There are a lot of Trump supporters in the military currently and that are ex military veterans. Also in law enforcement as I know a couple of sheriffs locally here and they’re all Trump supporters. I don’t think you’ve thought that through all that much.

But hey, if you democrats want to create a much bigger divide and conflict in this country which will essentially guarantee it collapses even faster I won’t stand in your way. You must remember that I’m the neutral observer over here that ultimately wants the United States along with the current global order to collapse in total free-fall.

Whatever brings this manifestation even quicker is fine by me. I’m content on letting both political parties fighting it out devouring this nation into political chaos. Hell, I even encourage it. :evilfun:

Best I can find on approval in the military is 57% approve to 41% disapprove, and that is from July, pre-Zelensky call, pre-impeachment inquiry, pre-Syria withdrawal.

So, a little more than half. That alone should make you question how likely a violent reaction led or supported by current military members is. Add to that that most Trump-supporting military members are nonetheless loyal to the Constitution and the process by which Trump would be removed. Add to that that the military leadership is not nearly so favorable on Trump. Add to that that Trump’s recent actions have likely lost him substantial support in the military, and that members of the military are as subject as anyone else to the unfolding of the impeachment process, which has already substantially moved public opinion in favor of removal.

Look at this chart of the polling average on impeachment and removal. That jump around September 25 coincided with Pelosi announcing the start of an inquiry on 9/24 and Trump releasing the memo from the call on 9/25. Scroll down and you can see that the jump occurred across the political spectrum. The facts coming out aren’t increasing polarization, they’re getting people on board with the idea that this president should be removed.

“Impartial people…”

The fucking balls on these commies.

Trump seems to have the most loyal following any US president has had, especially under such duress. Sure, very auspicious residences did have big followings but many of those attached would break off at the slightest bit of resistance. With Donald J Trump it doesn’t matter in the end because he already delivered the goods.

What he did was defeat the most murderous savage alive in our age, prevent it from taking control of the Nato. His bravery saved us maybe literally a million years of damage control. What happens now won’t be of much importance to Trumps legacy, he probably gets his picking of the afterlives of all cool religions. His name is written in the Galactic Records.

The puny childmurderers hiding from the world in the foam from their mouths which now think they have an important procedure at hand will be forgotten as they die.
We need to see this in perspective.

How many of these polls are controlled by neo-liberal democrats? Not politically bias, right? :laughing:

Just start fighting each other already and crash this economy into a burning frenzy so that my guys can wait on the sidelines until you’re both severely weakened so that way we can make our opening move. :evilfun: :laughing: :stuck_out_tongue: :-"

Two birds, one stone. Bishop takes king and knight takes queen.

Always remember, we fascists are counting on you democrats and republicans to destroy each other. We’re actually predictably counting on it. It’s in a fascist handbook somewhere I think…

This is a very weak response. First, it effectively concedes that my conclusion follows from the evidence as stated, but that needn’t be so readily conceded. Second, it even effectively concedes that the poll shows what it purports to show, something that should in much greater doubt given the great failure of polling in the leadup to the 2016 election. And third, it rests on the throwaway defense that all evidence is lies, all investigators liars, all facts opinions, etc. etc.; we know nothing, and so we cannot know this. But this response amounts to Cartesian skepticism of all claims, and disproves your own beliefs as well.

And if that’s the best argument you have, it makes my case better than I could.

My guess is that that lot will keep sitting out history, suckling off the teat of the society they despise and satisfied in fantasies in which they matter.

Even if the Democratic worst-case-scenario were true, and Trump blatantly Extorted Ukraine to investigate his political rival (Biden), that is not a “High Crime”. It is a Low Crime.

So even if Democrats played their hand perfectly, they would still fail, and not have grounds for impeachment. This is going to be a big embarrassment and stain on the Democratic-Liberal-Left, and I hope, for a long time to come. I hope the Democrats learn from their failures here; but I doubt they will.

Obama did so many impeachable offenses but nobody did anything because he was the first black president in what was supposedly post- racial America. :laughing:

This is purely a political assassination take down of Trump, I don’t even like Donald Trump and I can see that.

So you’re basically admitting most of your sources of information are politically biased. Alright then, thanks for that Carleas in confirming my suspicions.

Sucking off the teat of society? Well it appears our Marxist lite democrat is also an elitist where he looks down on the poor, disenfranchised, and lower ranking members of society. Of course this is no surprise by me given the blatant hypocrisy of his political affiliation. The upper echelons of the democratic party always like to look at others as their betters. Carleas, those of your political persuasion are in store for a rude awakening is all I can say. I know you’re not going to believe anything I have to say, but I’ve said it nonetheless.

The Military Times article doesn’t include retired or end of service military veterans.

Also, the military has been struggling to acquire more soldiers or servicemen because nobody is stupid enough to join anymore where their enrollment numbers have been declining for years now. They’re even having a hard time getting inner city ‘racial minorities’ to even join up in recruitment. :sunglasses:

One wonders the accuracy of such military polling at all.

Yes, a main difference between Obama and Trump is that the liberal-left Media establishment protected Obama’s extortion, but want to crucify Trump for the same thing.

The true “quid-pro-quo” is why Obama wasn’t driven out of office and countless witch-hunts, for the same actions, agendas, and political maneuvers.

I refer you again to my question and comments here; “high crime” doesn’t mean a “big crime”; an “impeachable offense” is basically a meaningless phrase.

Define your terms, and be specific.

Impeachment is either a legitimate complaint, following a severe “High Crime” by the US President, or, it is an illegitimate complain by one party to forcibly remove the US president of the opposing party, under false-pretense, which is also a violation of the US constitution, by which the people elect the Commander-in-Chief to office. If impeachment is illegitimate, then it is the essence of Anti-Democracy. The Democrats are stating, with this illegitimate coup, that “your majority vote” (for the President) be damned, “if we have the votes then we will impeach”. And they will try to impeach, even without the votes.

A legitimate impeachment would follow a severe, “High Crime”. If the President were 1) declaring war unconstitutionally, 2) extorting for sums of tens or hundreds of millions of dollars of personal gain, 3) conducting federal crimes such as murder, rape, or theft (point 2), 4) or any other severe breach of the US constitution. Trump has done nothing of the sorts.

And it can, and will be, easily argued by Trump and Republicans, that the basis of any “investigation” into Biden, is synonymous or tantamount to internal corruption, which it arguably was. Under the Obama administration, Biden admitted, on tape, of Bribery and Extortion in Ukraine. Therefore, Trump has a legitimate Right to investigate that, whether internally or externally (through Ukraine), doesn’t really matter. Furthermore, what is proved, is the Liberal-Left-Media, Fake-News Agencies, protect their own, and were unwilling to call-out Biden on his Corruptions, while pressing witch-hunt after witch-hunt against Trump, producing a double-standard. Trump was/is right. The Liberal-Left-Media is an enemy of Democracy, and enemy of the State. The ruthless lying, by the Media, is finally being checked by Trump, an Anti-Establishment Non-Politician, which is precisely what the public wanted in 2016, the public wants now, and the public will elect into 2020 and possibly beyond.

Trump backs-up his promises, which upsets the normal and traditional “Politicians”, who all, do not. Politicians, the Establishment, is intimidated by Trump, for this reason especially. Trump is draining the swamp, and should continue to do so, perhaps even go further, and launch a State-funded attack against the Press.

Also, related to the Press, why haven’t the Mass Media looked into the Epstein matter, outed by the ABC News Anchor recently? How corrupt exactly, are the Mass-Media News agencies and corporations? How many pedophile connections are there, exactly? Again, why isn’t the real news being covered? Because, the Liberal-Left-Fake-News, protects its own. It protected and protects Epstein and his clients (how many of them are Media Executives???), it protected Obama and Hillary, and it protects its political and social interests.

The flow of the forum appear to try to recapture proceedings determinally, hoping to shore up the rules which have been prescribed.
Such procedures are failing substantially, since policy considerations have been slowly eroding public trust in the application of rules.
The irony rests with the republicans, especially those who want to conserve
public trust .
The last frontier is that . which exists in international relations, and today’s hearing makes.that clear with the divergence between various committees investigating, with the intelligence committee signifying precedence between it, and the other committees in reference to national security and international relations.
The polls do not show this , and the shadow international procedure, of policy of prior CIA venues, may be at the heart of it.

A “high crime” is also not a “severe” crime. A high crime is a mere breach of trust; it’s ‘high’ in the sense that it’s a crime when done by a person in a position of trust (i.e. a high position), and need not be something that would be criminal when done by a member of the public. Hamilton described impeachable conduct as “the misconduct of public men” or “the abuse or violation of some public trust”. In other words, the bar is lower for impeachment than it is for a normal criminal prosecution.

And that makes sense because the kind of conduct that should preclude someone from a position of trust is not the same as the kind that should lead someone to be put in jail; you might not leave your kids with someone just because they’re shifty-looking, but we shouldn’t make looking shifty a crime.

Citation needed.

Basically what it amounts to is a democratic committee in congress that interprets the law regarding low or high crimes based upon their emotional dislike and hatred of Donald Trump. That’s all it is.

[That and because their pockets are a little bit more emptier now with the whole trade war against China that is their biggest political financial donors.]

They’ve wanted him gone since 2016 and they’re going to throw everything they got at him until something sticks. [Until something is usable against him.]

That’s certainly how the rest of the United States other than uber neo-liberal democrats thinks like watching this.

It would be hilarious again if Donald Trump wins again in 2020, not because I like him or the republicans [I don’t] but just to see the Marxist lite democrats go insane four more years.