I’m sure many already know that the U.S. military has made a profit from both sides of not only most of the wars we’ve been involved in, but also many of the wars other nations have been involved in.
We resell our old weaponry to other nations, whether they be communist or democratic. We fund communist countries, and support communist governments.
While I must admit it’s a genius way of making big money, do you believe it’s moral? If most Americans knew that their tax dollars were being spent helping communist governments, or providing terrorist nations with money or weapons, do you think they would feel more inclined to revolt against the government?
I’d be very interested in you explaining why profits must, or should be, moral. Wasn’t there just a movie about this, like Lord of War or something?
As opposed to how inclined they normally feel? Man, you’ve got a good username.
I’m not sure most Americans could acquire enough information to have a strong “feeling” one way or the other. I’m impressed when they get themselves worked up into enough of a “feeling” frenzy to muster up the motivation to vote!
“Making Profits” is not an act of creation itself.
Getting money is as simple as one authoritative plutocratic owner writing on paper that you own this and this and this.
That’s not actually production, or making, that’s authoritive assignment of ownership.
There’s a big difference between “making capital” and “making producits”. The reason above should be clear enough. So, when a Capitalist believes he is making more wealth and resources, he is actually just taking away things from other people, or he is having things given to him in exchange for other things, but that isn’t actually making anything!
Goods are productions, productions made by workers.
Wars generally use up, waste and destroy lives, workers, job opportunities, natural resources, minds and futures.
Wars are truly bad for production.
But, in a Capitalist society, wars are “profitable” …! Imagine that!
Why? Because, when you make things more unequal by pointing guns in people’s faces and fucking with boarders, allot more “capital” is “produced”. Though this is IN FACT a DESTRUCTION of productivity and economy, it spurts up more money for the Capitalist, because it creates such imbalance.
The truth of the matter stands, though. War destroys life, resources, prospects, infrastructures and minds. War destroys productivity and the health of nations. War is the EXACT OPPOSITE of profit; war is TERRIBLE! But, for the capitalist, terrible, wasteful and harmful things, are “profitable” because they “make capital”, therefor, these capitalists see destruction and animalistic cannibalism over resources as a profitable, profitable in the case of capital, and land-ownership, but that is NOT true profit! War is madness, and any system of government or economy which encourages it is also madness.
The average person by now semi knows our gov’t sells weapons to potential threats. While the sale price sounds really fantastic, its not. It doesn’t cover the cost of the original manufacturing, because a-holes charge ridiculous amounts to our Gov’t for these toys. Lets curb the original costs, that is the part that pisses me off.
To most citizens,The US selling weapos to threats is like a fully armored human handing a gun to a kid. US people are not intimidated by these threats. Arrogance is going to be a hard nut to swallow. We are not invunerable.
Morally there is not an issue, If we don’t sell it to them then they will get worse ones from someone else. At the least we are controling somewhat the crap that is out there. We know where the threats are and what they have. If someone else sold these folks weapons we would not know what where and how. That could be more dangerous. Many of the weapons sold have minute trackers on them. which is pretty cool, it helps us keep an eye on movements.
I have no problems screwing our threats which is what these sales do. We know who has what, where it is and how they move. We have a strategic advantage. If we stood on a moral high ground and refused these sales, well we may feel morally good but, we would be blind and our backs would be turned towards the enemy. I kind of sleep better at night knowing we track.
I don’t think there is anything immoral about profit in and of itself. I don’t think somebody selling a product that people want to buy, and then making a profit from it, is a bad thing; however, selling a nation products to kill people of another nation, and then selling the defending nation products for the same intent, I would argue is immoral. Helping people kill one another more efficiently doesn’t seem moral to me.
In addition, it doesn’t seem moral to me that taxpayers pay for military, then the military sells old products to other nations, and in many cases, tax payers are charged even more to go and fight against the weapons we sold them. Perhaps moral is the wrong word if it’s confusing. It’s not something I want done with my money I’ve earned.
Well, if the internet isn’t regulated, I’d say there’s a pretty damn good chance. Sure, a lot of our baby boomers and old folks don’t use the internet, but most of the youth do, and I’d imagine in a few generations, it will be a much more integrated part of life. Here’s to hoping.
This is something I’ve never considered, and it’s a good point. I still don’t see nations across the ocean being a threat to us with old weaponry compared to what we’ve developed today. I’d prefer if we didn’t sell weapons to anybody that would eventually be used against us, knowing our interventionist policy. Whether we would be worse off in that case I can’t say.
Well, after all the dabbling we’ve done in foreign governments, now I think we have more of a reason to be afraid than we used to, but still…paranoia doesn’t seem to be a very good excuse to build military bases all over the world and try to police every nation. It makes our defense at home much weaker. In addition, if we weren’t meddling, I’d imagine the U.S. would be much more like Canada…and who the hell would ever attack Canada?
So, selling guns is immoral? Meh, I don’t find the basis for your injection of morality into the transaction as being either valid or persuasive. I get your gist, I’m just not sure how “transactions ought to be moral” figures when you speak in generalities as you are doing.
If you can state a specific transaction, we can proceed. Say, F-14’s to the House of Saud?
Internet regulation, other then being an empty assertion, has nothing to do with the fact that most Americans will not bother to click on links and critically think about them. Really, it seems the ‘next big thing’ for the internet is that ISP TV is coming.
So, for some people, the internet will be enhanced TV. But not for the masses, who either don’t care, don’t have the time to care, or cannot be bother to state whether or not they are in either of those two categories - “'net regulation” is irrelevant.
I doubt the average American knows our government sells much of anything to anyone. If they do, I doubt they bothered with either a “threat” or "moral’ analysis.
You talk like this is still the cold war, and every other nation who isn’t an allie has to be undermined for petty reasons of international schitzophrenia. The “threats” to your future are not other nations, the true “threat” is the stupidity, corruption and waste inside of the USA. Iraq isn’t/wasn’t planning to invade and destroy USA. Iran is not planning to invade or destroy the USA. They are not “threats” to NATIONAL security.
He’s right. We don’t make a profit. Look at the F-22 and tell me if you think the military is making money. It’s a huge drain.
I disagree with your assessment of the a-holes, though. While the cost is marked up by the manufacturer, the products cost a fortune to develop and build, so it’s not really their fault. They have a business to run, after all.
Also, we sell downgraded equipment. The Israelis, for example, fly our F-15s, but with outdated avionics. This is not to say that outdated weaponry can’t be a threat (ahem Al Qaeda cough cough).
Serious threats no. Potential /possibly. What are the chances of your home getting robbed if you leave your doors wide open while you are gone? Pretty good if you live in a city. See, old weapons if used right , kill, destroy and do one hell of alot of damage. Thats why they were made. State of the art equipment does not mean those old weapons are useless, it just means they are not as efficient at killing. Look at our borders, we have gaping holes that if someone were determined enough and have enough resources they could smuggle in an entire army in. The northwest borders of the US and Canada are the biggest gap. Take a look at that part of the countries. Look at the coast lines. If I wanted to create a serious threat to the US or Canada. That is where I would stage the attack from. It is beautifully set up for hiding weapons and people. Did you know that submarines are sold? private ones not just military ones. Did you know that tunnels exist between mexico and US and Canada and US? More are being dug as we speak. The Gov’t can’t find them all. These are used by drug runners but, what if they were used by someone else?
Paranoia is why every Gov’t has military. Putting bases in other countries does not weaken us, Its the ineffiecient meddling of politicans that don’t allow trained strategists to do their jobs that weakens us. we have the personnel and the equipment to keep our borders safe and still have arms throughout the world. But the politicians meddle and believe they know how to mount strategies to protect. They don’t. They don’t think with a military mind they don’t understand the mindset of a trained killing machine.
The present situations, Vietnam and Korea were all handicapped by politicians playing armchair Generals.
We wouldn’t need to meddle in other countries if, everyone including us destroyed their military power. will that happen? no way, not our lifetimes. Paranoia and greed keeps that from happening. it not just the US that is paranoid. Our allies have bases here. During the aftermath of katrina we had some German soldiers here helping and British soldiers. We down here apreciate all our allies did to assist us. Although German MREs take some getting used to.
Anthem:
Oh come on! we are charged $100 dollars for a hammer and 350 for a screw gun to build the equipment. Profit is one thing obscene profit is another. They make at the very least a %500 percent profit off the Gov’t. Generally its more. they charge us not just for the manufacturing but for the tools they use. etc… All of which is fine but, they jack that profit margin up obscenely. An uncle worked for Lockheed as a VP. Even he got disgusted with the markups and paddings.
You can’t sell military equipment at original cost. The market won’t bear it. Too many manufacturers worldwide willing to make a deal. I never said there was a profit I said it does not cover the original cost. I not once said the military is making a profit, that was not me.
Dan~:
I sort of said that up there in my original post. but to clarify I condemn the politicicians and the manufacturers
As far as cold war , it never ended. it won’t, until all countries dismantle their militaries. As long as one country keeps its military intact, no country is safe. Wether Iraq or Iran planned to invade us is irrelevent to the issue at hand. I don’t see that they could or would invade but, extreme militants from their countries would and can. Iraq and Iran harbor these threats. So paranoia raises its ugly head and strikes out. If you can get all countries including ours to destroy all weapons Dan~ then the cold war will end and paranoia can get a much needed rest. Until then people die from such stupidity and insanity.
more or less:
Don’t watch the news much? The news media tracks this stuff and tells us what is done, not all but, enough to give the average US person a glimmer of what our Gov’t does. Sales of military equipment is always announced in the paper on the TV. People know about it but, you are right they don’t really care because the next second of TV is taken up with bloody gory sexual crap that erases any sort of previous thought that may have been forming.
You combine that with the fact that I believe the average American watches the news for about 5 minutes, and given the popularity of American Idol… well I just beg to differ.
I did say people do not give it thought, knowing a thing and thinking about it are two different things. The media white washes Gov’t stories with gruesome rubbernecking stories… Gov’t news is blurbed into 15 seconds , gruesome gets a full minute or more.
How many plesant stories are ever on the news? Happy is not a good ratings show. Gruesome is. Why? Really why is it more people will change the channel to watch someone die over someone getting saved? Is it about ratings or is it about control? I don’t know the answer to that. I can only guess from watching things be done over the past few decades and If I had to guess, it is both ratings and control. Keep the unpleasant stories coming get people used to pain and misery, they won’t feel it when we slip this under their nose.
Man, you’ve got a good username.