Ultimate Happiness is deadly!

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
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I am going to raise a question/problem here and this is not to be taking in a negative way of looking at the world. Simply as a factual arguement with some underlying consequences.

All human beings look for some sort of purpose in their life. Purpose is what defines everything. It gives meaning to the things that human beings do. Most people would agree that ultimate happines is something that lasts for a long time and that it is something rather self-sufficient (meaning if you have your purpose in life fulfilled you do not need anything else). Now here is where my little problem comes in. Every human being has needs and wants in life. People constantly want things and when they obtain the things that they want, they want more. (an example:A bit of money turns into a car. The old car into a new car. The new car into a newer car.(and so on). People always want greater goods, and better things, and eventually if people see a purpose in thier life they want to achieve that purpose. The problem is that it appears as if, as long as you are human, there is hardly ever a second in your life in which you wish you did not have anything new added on to your life. There is always something lacking (whether its material, emotional, or rational thoughts). Now if the purpose in life is supposed to be the greatest good, the longest lasting good, the self-sufficient good, then it appears to me that Aristotle was right when he said that a living person cannot be called happy. If you live you want things but to be fully happy you should not be wanting things (you should have everything you wanted). That is why I say that Ultimate Happiness or Purpose in Life is very complicated and could potentially not be achievable in this life because the wants of a human being seem endless. But this seems to be a contradictory claim because when most people use the term Purpose in Life, they mean IN THIS LIFE and not necessarily in the next.

Would anyone care to share their thoughts on this issue… (I am leaving all options open here)

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Hi violhence, welcome to the forums.

you wrote:

If your purpose in life is fullfilled would that not be the time to die, since you have served your purpose, in a grim sense you are no longer necessary.

When people in old age or in dire circumstances such as concentration camps lose sight of any and all purpose or meaning in life then it’s known that they die very soon after. See Viktor E. Frankls book Mans search for meaning for evidence of this.

you wrote:

Wasn’t it Socrates who said that if you are not happy with what you have now then you shall not be happy with what wish to get later.

I don’t think its really that difficult. Simply want and be appreciative of what you have. Just because one has a desire for something better does not mean his appreciation for what he has now should diminish.

Now I’m of the opinon that joy is but a moment in life as is deep sorrow. We do not live in prepetual states of joy or sorrow but rather fluctate from the pits of despair to soaring up high in the clouds, thats the human condition. Take love for example. I would claim that mans greatest exprience is love, but notice with love that death of the one you love is enevitable. Would that not also be the greatest pain? However is happiness the measure of sorrow or joy in life? Joy does not equate to happiness, so what is happiness? Can one be happy with a memory?

If I may quote Frankl:
"The pessimist resembles a man who observes with fear and sadness that his wall calendar, from which he daily tears a sheet, grows thinner with each passing day. On the other hand, the person who atacks the problems of life activly is like a man who removes each successive leaf from his calendar and files it neatly and carefully away with its predecessors, after first having jotted down a few diary notes on the back. He can reflect with pride and joy on all the richness set down in these notes, on all the life he has already lived to the fullest. What will it mater to him if he notices that he is growing old? Has he any reason to envy the young people whome he sees, or wax nostalgic over his own lost youth? What reasons has he to envy a young person? For the possibilities that a young person has, the future which is in store for him? “No, thank you,” he will think. “Instead of possibilities, I have realities in my past, not only the reality of work done and of love loved, but of sufferings bravely suffered. These sufferings are even the things of which I am most proud, though these are things which cannot inspire envy.” -Viktor E. Frankl

I would also just like to share one more of Frankls quotes, my favorite one.

“Don’t aim at success- the more you aim at it and make it a target, the more you are going to miss it. For success, like happiness, cannot be pursued; it must ensue, and it only does so as the unintended side-effect of ones personal dedication to a cause greater than oneself or as the by-product of ones surrender to someone other than oneself.”

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I think what you say is very true in a sense that what you say seems to be very true with respect to western philosophy or western religions. I think it is a little unfair of you to make a sweeping statement about humans in general being “always wanting more and more”. this is not really true. a lot of eastern philosophy center on “be happy with what you have”, and buddism is a religion which promotes that idea too.
practically, you can actually see the difference between western and eastern philosophy being adopted with respect to happiness. one of the reasons, I think, why China had been stuck with a king ruling over the whole country is that the people in the country have this philosophy of be happy with what you have in mind so that they tend not to revolt unless it is really necessary, and even after revolution, the old system is restored because change is not desired. in the western world, on the other hand, people strive for happier and happier life and adopt the philosophy of always wanting more and more therefore democracy was developed when people had enough with kings. I’m not saying this is the only reason why democracy had been developed in the west, of course there are things like China having such a deep culture and tradition, it is harder for China to break the traditionin order to progress in civilisation.

my conclusion is that it is not that happiness leads to contradition, it is only true when it is coupled with certain philosophy.
Yan

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Ok. I can agree on that fact that human beings can be happy with what they have and not ‘always want more and more’ (even though that happends to be true in many cases maybe it is not all). But now I raise a question to what you have stated.

You said that if a human being has fulfilled his or her purpose then it might be take to die shortly after that because the purpose in life has been fulfilled. I would go as far as questioning whether the purpose in life can be fulfilled at all. If you (as a human being) were to know the actual purpose in life you would probbably achieve it. If you achieved your purpose in life at a early age…what would you still do here in this life? If all the desires, wants, needs, requirements from God, were fulfilled…you would have nothing left to do here. I think that a lot of people view purpose in life as something that should be easy but it is clear that when you read books such as Aristotle’s Ethics for example, you will understand that ultimate happiness is not a universal. It is not universally one. You can give one definition for it within logical space (such as ‘an activity of the soul in conformity with the greatest virtue’ (where virtue is a characteristic of the soul aimed at determining the mean between two extremes in any given situation))

The whole point here is to get people to think beyond the basic picture. The basic picture is that there should be a purpose in life and we should know it and be able to obtain it as fast as possible. I dissagree witht that view and think that it is part of God’s divine plan for us not to fully know the purpose even though it does exist. If I am 20 and I fulfilled the purpose in life (whether it has to do with me or all of mankind) what am I going to do for the next 50 years or so??? See God was well aware of this problem and he took the necessary steps during creation. That is why ultimate happiness is a bit complicated to figure out, as it should be.

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Ah, but you claim purpose comes from god, I do not. I believe man creates his own purpose and meaning in life. I am not advocating an overall grand purpose. I am stating that a person may attatch their own purpose to the circumstances they are in.

We all have many purposes in life, not just one. As babies our purpose is to give love and fullfill the needs of our parents. As we grow older and go through life purpose changes. A mother for example, who loses her son to a drunk driver may find purpose in dedicating her life to M.A.D.D. in the aftermath. This was not her purpose before; maybe it was to care for her son before but now life has altered it. Furthermore another person will not find meaning in dedicating themselves to M.A.D.D., but may find it in something else.

If I may use another Frankl to illustrate this last point.

“Life ultimatly means taking the responsibility to finding the right awnser to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual.”

I was probably wrong when I stated when the purpose of life is fullfilled it is time to die, for it is an immpossiblity to do so as you say and I agree.
I was just trying to show that if what you said was so:“(meaning if you have your purpose in life fulfilled you do not need anything else)” then whats natural is death for you no longer have any purpose and as agent Smith said in the Matrix “it is purpose that drives, purpose that connects us, purpose that keeps us here.”

Death serves a purpose as well, but without purpose or hope of one in the future we are doomed psychologically and many times physiologically as well.

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Ok this gets me to my definition of life and purpose.

I would define life psychologically as : an oppertunity to do something for it (it being the substance called God)

I think of it as God gave existence to human beings and brought goodness into this world.No human being is evil by nature because evil would attempt to kill others (which means to oppose being), so if there were a evil creature by nature, that creature would kill itself instantly. Evil by nature is not a possiblitly. Only goodness. Therefore good created goodness when he gave humans being. It is the responsibility of human being to perserve and maintain that goodness that they were given and were created with. In my definion purpose in life is not universally one, but it is whatever is required to maintain or spread goodness in the world. This sort of thing would be good for its own sake I believe, because when you spread goodness, and you see happy people, you yourself become happy in the process. You just have to do the right things for the right reasons. Ultimate happiness cannot be turned into something selfish or adventagoes but rather something that is good overall. That is my definition for now and I stick with it until I learn more philosophy and meaning changes over time.

Anyone else on happiness…what it is…and how to fulfill purpose