I am still trying to get use to this, so bear with me…
we have all kinds of ism’s and ideologies that give us some meaning and point of reference…
and part of my argument has been that many ideologies and ism’s force us into a rigid, set way of thinking…
capitalism for example, either we follow the set script of making profits for our economic overlords, or we get ‘‘fired’’ which is to say, we are threatened with living on the streets and starvation… there is no third option…
now I am going to end this in some attempt to figure out how to post this to the website and then I will continue…
1 Like
Ok, I still don’t get this, but press on, I will…
the ism’s we hold dictate the parameters of our existence…for example, in capitalism, we are beings that must make profits or we end up on the street…we must become or inhabit certain values and actions to be effective workers… in my working capacity, I am not allowed to discuss my own personal beliefs… I must be ‘‘professional’’ in my dealing with customers… and acting professional is a clear set standard that forces us to act,
and behave in a certain set way…this regimentation…
of forcing people to be, act, think and dress in a certain way is part of the modern straight jacket that we must follow…if we are to be ‘‘successful’’ people… if I want a promotion or a raise, I must become who the company demands me to be… to be a corporate person, who only engages in corporate rules and ‘‘professionalism’’
standards demanded by the company…
there is no room for ‘‘me to be me’’ individualism is
rejected by the corporate world… and that is the point of most ism’s, to be ‘‘typecast’’ as someone who obeys
the standards of that particular ism… the Nazi’s had a very set standard of values, beliefs and behaviors that had to be followed to be considered a good ‘‘citizens/Nazi’’ which was the exact same thing…the allegiance of the citizens in that ism is to the ism in question… If I live in a democracy, then my allegiance is to that democracy… not to me or to my own standards,
but to the ism in question…if I want to be considered to be a good citizen or a model human being…
every political and/or economic ism, is a means of forcing us into set, standard actions and behaviors that force us to be, act, dress or behave in a certain way…
and I suspect that is part of Sammy’s objection to diversity and multiculturalism… that within diversity, an ism, and multiculturalism, also an ism, we are forced into certain set, standard behaviors of the ism, diversity and multiculturalism… Sammy objects to the standards and set behaviors of these ism’s…he believes that we should behave and act under another set of ism’s and ideologies… that of bigotry and prejudice and be just like Sammy, which is to hate and be prejudice against those
who look different than we do, or pray to a different god, then we do or hold to different gender/sexual identities than we do… for Sammy, it is just another set and determined way to follow an ism or ideology…
to be ‘‘normal’’ we must love and marry the opposite sex and to be ‘‘normal’’ we must pray to the same god, as I do, and to be normal, I must dress as my gender demands me to dress… it is forcing people into
a set and determined way to act, think, feel and behave…just like capitalism does, and as democracy does and as diversity, as an ideology/ism does,
as our economic and political systems forces us into a certain and set standard of being the same, acting the same, behaving the same, loving the same,
and praying the same…
so, the question becomes, can we, must we follow our set destiny in following isms and ideologies, or can we
act differently then our isms and ideologies demand us to act?
Kropotkin
You’ll get used to it!
Having been in higher management, even in a care setting, I wouldn’t expect my employees to spout off their opinions on subjects that are not relevant to their job. They can do that privately all they want, but at work they represent the company. Work is defined by the contract we sign, and normally, it is stated what your job is, and that is what you should be doing – not what you think you should do. Of course, staff are given a certain amount of freedom, but it should not distract them from their jobs.
I’m afraid that bringing Nazi’s into the conversation only disqualifies your statement. I can accept that there may be things you disagree with at work, but associating the restrictions you may face with fascism is not acceptable. There is a clear hierarchy at work, and the job description normally defines that hierarchy. There is no democracy unless the boss asks for a vote on a subject, which I have now and then, but normally, the directive is to be followed.
Diversity is advantageous, I agree, but the law normally defines the rules regarding discrimination, not the place of employment. The European Union (EU) has established several laws and directives to prevent discrimination and promote equal treatment across various grounds, which I could list but they are quite numerous.
Your isms are your own affair, and if you want a change in society, you have to go the democratic way to try and change things.
If I were to accept certain ism’s or ideologies as my own isms, then I have committed to that ism, in thoughts, actions, believes and values… so, if I commit to the Catholic religion, then I commit to Catholic values, beliefs, actions and set of behaviors…to dress modestly, to act modestly, obey the 10 commandments… these are examples of what happens if we were to accept any particular ism…we must then follow that ism into accepting its values, beliefs, actions and ‘‘way of life’’…
in accepting/following an ism is to follow and accept that ism in all its aspects, there is no halfway in accepting isms… its kinda an ‘‘all or nothing’’ prospect…
now, everyone, everyone follows ism’s and ideologies…
they may deny it, but the fact is that we all, engage with ism’s of one sort or another… and that we then practice and obey that ism… we don’t dictate to the ism, the ism dictates to us… and that is true of all ism’s…
Now some may say, we have a voice in the ism’s we choose to obey, not really… for example, in Catholicism,
the values, beliefs, actions, thoughts are dictated to you… if you fail to obey, you can be kicked out of Catholicism… and most western religions/ism have a means of removing its members… not so much in the Eastern religions/philosophies… the removal of members who don’t toe the line in western religions, has a long history behind it… and we might include both Jesus and Socrates into that history of removal if that particular member fails to obey, toe the line in that religion… both Socrates and Jesus were punished on religious grounds, not political or social grounds…
as was Spinoza, who was punished on religious grounds… and today, we punish people not on religious
grounds, but on political or economic or social grounds…
he is a disturber of the peace…is as much a social punishment as a political or economic punishment…
and we can punish educators on the grounds of disturbing the peace… for the key aspect of education,
is to disturbed someone from their safe childhood
education/indoctrinations…unless one has overcome their childhood indoctrinations/education, they are simply parroting their childhood beliefs and values…
such as Sammy does when he simple parrots his
childhood indoctrinations/education… and education, real education is to overcome our childhood education/ indoctrinations, and values… to provoke, to make people become ‘‘WOKE’’ to their own education/indoctrinations… and all ‘‘WOKE’’ means is to become aware of something… an awareness that wasn’t there before becoming ‘‘WOKE’’…
Kropotkin
I too have been in management… but as I have ‘‘grown’’ in my understanding of what it means to be human, I now have a better understanding of human beings and work…the contract you refer to isn’t a free one, nor is
it a you have a choice in that contract… we are slaves, nothing more and nothing less and we have no choice in us signing that contract… we sign or we starve to death on the street… that isn’t a choice…and every single business in the capitalistic world, must force its workers into slavery to survive… to force workers to create more and more wealth… which is the heart of the capitalism…
the model of capitalism is to pay your workers a fraction of their efforts… so, if I create, make $10 of goods,
the work/business must pay me less than $10 to make a profit… the business profits is based on taking/stealing the efforts of the workers… there is no other way to creating profits outside of paying them less than their
efforts/their work… that is capitalism… and those who favor capitalism, always hold their hat on the fact that
the workers… ‘‘freely’’ choose their slavery… create
a contract and that contract is about being able to
freely choosing to work there, at that business…
but the fact is, that because of our, all of us having
needs, we must have food, water, shelter, education,
health care, and the only way to meet those needs in
our modern world, is by working as a slave…our needs forces us to enter the capitalistic world, regardless if we want to or not…
and to say, one has a choice, is to simply deny the basic
fact that all of us, have a biological imperative to survive,
to eat, to be educated, to have health care… and the corporate world, the world of capitalism, takes advantage of us by understanding that we have no other choice in eating or being educated or having shelter…
it is to work under their, the capitalist’s terms or starve to death…and we can’t really overcome our biological imperative… at least not yet… the capitalistic system is
the model system of forcing people to become slaves to
be able to engage in their needs of eating, shelter,
heath care, education… and so on…
so if we can meet our biological needs of food, water, shelter, education, health care without, without
selling ourselves as slaves in the modern world,
that will be the end of capitalism… if we are able to meet
our needs without becoming ''employees", we can
end the tyranny of capitalism… in Star Trek, there is a device called a ‘‘replicator’’ which creates food and water for people… this technology, that meets the needs of people without having to becoming slaves, is the device that ends capitalism… and that should become our goal, to gain our needs without becoming slaves
within an ism or ideology… as capitalism does force us to become slaves to meet our needs…
the bottom line goal is to meet our needs without selling our souls and bodies into slavery by working our entire lives to gain those the products that meet our needs of
eating, water, shelter, education, health care… etc, etc…
so, for example, we look at competing health care systems… the health care system in America vs,
the health care system of say, England… and we can immediately see the difference… the goal of the American health care system is to make money…
and the goal of the Europeans systems of ‘‘one payer
systems’’ is that the Europeans systems is meant to
heal people, not to make profits… and that difference,
makes all the difference in the world…
to meet the needs of people is the last thing the capitalistic system wants… the goal is to make money…
not in meeting their needs… and in America, the only means to have covered health care, is mostly through
their work… as I do… and if I fail to have enough working hours, I lose my benefits, which just happened…to be covered, to have health care is dependent on having a job, making profits… and that
is for whose benefit? certainly not mine… the point in
this system is to make money… not to fulfill my needs or
keep me healthy… the businesses certainly do not
give a rats ass if I am healthy or even alive…
the goal is profits… and not in any, way, shape or form
about me… and my needs… … the drive is to make profits, not to meet my needs of food, water, shelter,
health care or education… (to name a few needs that I have) and why should I care about a system that certainly doesn’t have my best interest in who I am
and what my needs are?
and therein lies the reason for the massive discontentment and alienation of our modern world…
we are expendable pieces that only have value if we make profits, and we have no other value… so, why
invest in a system that couldn’t care less if we live or die? why put our energy into a system that only views us
as slaves to do their dirty work of making profits…
there is no other reason for us engaging in modern capitalism… or the big business of the modern world…
it is the only way, right now, to meet our needs, our
human, biological needs that all human beings have…
find another way to meet our needs and capitalism goes
away… and this fact is what allows communism and socialism and even fascism to survive… they are other possibilities of ours to meet our needs without becoming slaves to capitalism…the point is not capitalism or communism or socialism, the point is to find a means/ways to meet our biological needs that all human beings have… therein lies the point of ism’s and ideologies… they are simply a means to meet our biological and psychological needs of being human…
the ism’s are simply a means to the end goal…
which is to meet our biological and psychological
needs of being human…that is the point…
Kropotkin
We are thrown out of the womb and nurtured until we can stand, and soon afterwards, we are running chores. Once we are strong enough, we lift our weight, plough the field, and throw the stones out. Then, if we have sowed the seed well, we hope for rain and growth, and in the meantime, we live off what we have saved from the last harvest and from the fat of the pig we have slaughtered. We must cut wood for the fires to keep us warm, and hopefully, our blankets keep us warm, and our doors keep out the drafts.
Few people want that life, and there is hardly any space for them to do so in Europe. No wonder people flocked to the towns where work was offered, even if they sacrificed their personalities for the money and became a living cog in the machine. It was a living hell, but slowly, there were uprisings and protests, and the conditions became better, the hours fewer, and the wages just enough to live a life. The children survived longer, and there was something to eat, and if there hadn’t been the wars, it might have progressed that way, although when the survivors returned, it did get slightly better.
The collapse of the economy brought new dire straits and poverty, but more babies were being born and there were more mouths to feed. And then another war, and when the survivors returned their rights were formulated, and the cold war with the communists took people abroad, and the West formed alliances to prevent further wars. America took over from Britain as the dominant empire and promised a better world. I was born ten years after the end of the war, and it took me nearly forty years to understand the machine we had constructed. By then, the Soviet Union had fallen, and we thought it would finally mean peace.
I spent thirty years trying to fill a space and do a good job in nursing, but the machine took that over as well, and my time was over. At least I had a pension, a warm flat, and a healthy wife at my side, which is reason to be grateful. I can’t say that at any time in recent history was it better. It isn’t good, and war threatens once more, democracy is in danger, and alliances are threatened, but was it ever better? Was there something I should or could have done to improve the situation? Now I look at what motivates 99% of the people around me and I can’t see the difference in their motivation to those at the top. Everybody is trying to make more money because it is never enough.
But when was it better? If you know a time when it was better, what made it better?
Isn’t that wishful thinking? What can be done?
I’ll admit that I live in Germany, and our system, though becoming slowly more like the American one, is at the moment much better than yours, but America, Russia, China, and all the rich people over here want your system. So what can we do besides wish it was better?
I’ll cut off here because you repeat yourself and I can only give you the same question back – what can we do? Do you think that your monotonous monologue will change anything?