Understanding the real problems facing the US

Social Forums Current Events
1

time to reevaluate where we are right now…

There are many assumptions being made right now that need
to be unpacked…

One: the entire premise of MAGA is that America need to become
‘‘Great’’ again… and yet, it hasn’t been shown how we aren’t great…
How does one define being ''great?" and that begs a second question,
what does being great matter so much? What criteria are we using to
define ‘‘great’’…at one point in time, Bruce Jenner was the greatest
athlete in the world… and he could successfully claim that based on
his performance at the 1976 Olympics in the decathlon…

So, on what criteria are we using for a country’s ''Greatness?"
and once again, we reach the basic problem of the right, their
failure to understand the basics, which in this case is
comparison and contrast… How do we compare and contrast
greatness in a nation?
What criteria are we using to understand what greatness is
in a nation?

That is just one, one of the many problems we face in this
reboot…

another little brick in the wall is the failure to match the right
answer to the problem… in other words, the claim is that
in Minnesota fraud was committed… but the answer was
to militarily invade Minn. How is that answer in line with
the original problem, that of fraud…Fraud is a legal issue
and needs to be dwelt with legally… it is not a military
problem… the wrong answer is connected to a problem…
the answer must match or be equitable to the original
problem… if a child breaks a glass, and beating the shit out
of the kid, is an answer, but it is not equal to the action committed…
it a massive overreaction to the original problem, the broken glass…
and militarily invading a state for fraud is a massive overreaction to a
problem… but that is par for the course for conservatives/the right…
which leads us to another problem, the inability to take a problem
within context… the right will say, an immigrant killed this person,
and so, we in response, must, must expel all immigrants into
the US… there is no sense of context in their understanding
of a problem… and this is because they don’t practice
context and comparison… every event is taken by itself,
with no putting that event into context…

He hit the other guy…

an event… now we can’t make any statement until we put that event
into context… who hit whom and why, with what… under what context
or conditions did the event occur? and until we put that event under
context or compare, we have no sense of the problem or its solution,
if needed…

Now if there is more context, we can put the military invasion of
an American city/state into our understanding… what if, what if
this invasion has another reason behind it? the context of fraud
makes no sense with a military invasion, but setting up dictatorship
with the military occupation of America cities/states, now, now
the military invasion of Minn, makes much more sense…
How much pushback with the military get from the civilians…
that is part of the reason for this military occupation… to gauge
its feasability… but then we return to the original question,
how does this military invasion of Minn, how does this make
us ''great?"… how does this fit into the MAGA motto?
Once again, trying to connect the two, the military invasion of
an American state and MAGA?

Is the objective to create ‘‘Order’’, well I am pretty sure invading
a state is not the path to the creation of order, in Minn or anywhere
else… But that leaves us with other questions, is the creation of
order really the answer to a problem? and what problem is
this ‘‘ORDER’’ really dealing with? Minnesota has always
been a very well run state… it almost always lands in the top
ten well run states in America today… What disorder is being
stopped by this military invasion? if you are attempting to solve
an illegal immigrant problem, then Minnesota isn’t the place to go…
I’ll bet that the number of illegal immigrants in just three states
is greater than the entire population of Minnesota…
the three states are California, Texas and Florida… So, if that
is the problem to be solved, immigration, then invading Minnesota
doesn’t make sense at all…

So, therein lies part of the problem… is that we don’t actually
have a clear sense of the real problems facing America…
and so, that is the first step… what problems are we actually
facing and then, once we have a better sense of the real problems,
then we can begin to create solutions to those problems, not
just make up shit and by doing so, create even greater problems…

So, what are the real problems of America?

Kropotkin

1 Like
2

Now there are several here who oppose liberalism,
and claim that liberalism is part of the problem with America…
and yet, they are unable to define liberalism and then say
how liberalism is a problem if you can’t even define it…

Personally, I would make the argument that a large chunk
of the greatness of America comes from liberalism…
we can mark the birth of liberalism in government with
the French Revolution… Not the American revolution for a wide
variety of reasons…

So, we can begin liberalism with the French Revolution,
in 1789… Napolean took those ideals and spread them all
across Europe…within Liberalism lies the economic ideal
of capitalism… the two were, once, considered to be one
and the same… of course, not anymore… but once…

We can follow the rise of our current economic greatness with
the movement of liberalism across Europe… it went from
the west, England and France to the East, Germany and Poland
and Italy… and with each stop, the economic boom traveled
from west to east… Reaching Russia fairly late and the impact
of liberalism cannot be denied, even in Tsarist Russia…
Russia used the basic format of Capitalism to build its wealth,
but it didn’t take to it politically, as the west did… We can have
different economics from politics…

All in all, we cannot separate out the economic growth of the last
200 years from the liberalism that made it possible…
with every political gain, comes an economic gain…
the two are mixed up, intertwined… the bottom line,
whether it is acknowledge or not, is that the economic
boom of the last 200 years comes from the rise of liberalism
in the west…

But Kropotkin, how do we now explain the collapse of
Capitalism? I am not sure that the collapse of capitalism
is really the problem… I hold that our problems is far more
likely due to political issues, not economic, but don’t discount
the economic problems, just as always, put them into context…
indeed, put both the economic and political into context…
and then see where we are at…

Kropotkin

1 Like
3

now one of the questions facing us politically, is the question
of order vs freedom… an conservative will inevitable choose
order over freedom… that is their go-to… order…
and thus, they are quite ok with a police state…
As most conservatives are quite ok with the MAGA agenda
of turning America into a police state… we have to wonder,
if this need for order is really something we should engage with
or perhaps, we should consider freedom also…

we should consider the words of Benjamin Franklin…

‘‘Those who give up essential liberty to obtain temporary
safety, deserve neither liberty or safety’’

I would and have argued for freedom… now the point of freedom,
is that it is messy, chaotic, disordered… and I would happily
sacrifice some order for freedom… if we trade our freedom
for some order/security, we don’t deserve either…
because as hard as we try, we can never bring about
order…total order is not a possibility nor is it a desirable outcome…

So, what is your choice? do you want a police state in the hopes,
hopes of creating order, or are you willing to have some disorder to
have freedom?

I hold that disorder, chaos is part of the human condition…
and why? because we live in a disorder, chaotic universe…
there is order but it is because of scientific laws like
gravity and thermodynamics and especially my own favorite
law, entropy… our universe is a random, chance universe…
and we are best suited to this type of universe, random,
chaotic, full of chance and probability… for that is the
universe and world we live in… perhaps, perhaps that is
why people are so gung ho on creating a police state and
pretend order, because it is opposite of the real universe…
where disorder and order do a dance around each other…
Yin and yang, as it were…

or to say this another way, there is a time and place for
both order and disorder… but it takes some doing to
figure out when that time is, and when is the time for order
and what time is for disorder…

Kropotkin

1 Like
4

The real problem with the US is that it has been infested by a foreign parasite, since the beginning of the past century, and is now having a detrimental visible effect on the US…..

1 Like
5

two points, one: absolutely no truth to this particular
fantasy, two: if true, then what is the solution?
every problem must have a solution, where is your
solution?

Kropotkin

1 Like
6

Poor liberals cannot see the forest for the trees, they cannot see a nation in terminal decline on the verge of total political economic collapse.

Political liberalism has no answers to such big problems, no solutions or remedies…

A lot of big talk by political liberals signifying nothing at all.

:clown_face:

7

MrAuthoritarian:
Poor liberals cannot see the forest for the trees, they cannot see a nation in terminal decline on the verge of total political economic collapse.
Political liberalism has no answers to such big problems, no solutions or remedies…

K: and once again, where is your evidence for this ‘‘terminal decline’’
which is leading to ‘‘total political economic collapse’’ …
as you never have any proof or evidence for you statements,
I would, as usual, suggest that you are making shit up…
that liberalism is the solution… both political and economic…
that the phrase:

‘‘That all men are created equal’’

is the solution…

Kropotkin

1 Like
8

@Peter_Kropotkin

Your politically liberal economic capitalism does a terrible job at that all men are created equal bit, democrats equally as deplorable as their republican counterparts.

Next…

:clown_face:

9

Two responses to your inanities…

One….that is a declaration, not an argument.

Any fool can declare shit.

Two…identifying a problem does not require an accompanying solution.

That comes AFTER the problem is identified and defined.

If I say life is mortal….do I require a solution to state a fact, you sad fool.

If I say…you are a brainwashed automaton, do I need to provide a solution to your predicament?

1 Like
10

Krap-On-It cannot handle this truth…because he’s an Americanized brainwashed automaton…

All he knows is that liberalism is good…with no negative side-effects…

A true Homo Americanus….born and raised under the dominion of his masters.

He doesn’t even ant to acknowledge it…so he uses excuses like ‘demanding a solution’, to a problem he cannot even bring himself to udnerstand.

Al he knows is anarchy is good, because he does not trust authority, the government. The same government that brainwashed him, because to distrust authority is how they maintain control….and that communism is the solution, because his masters told him so, and it feels right.

1 Like
11

Silenus:
Krap-On-It cannot handle this truth…because he’s an Americanized brainwashed automaton…

All he knows is that liberalism is good…with no negative side-effects…

A true Homo Americanus….born and raised under the dominion of his masters.

He doesn’t even ant to acknowledge it…so he uses excuses like ‘demanding a solution’, to a problem he cannot even bring himself to udnerstand.

Al he knows is anarchy is good, because he does not trust authority, the government. The same government that brainwashed him, because to distrust authority is how they maintain control….and that communism is the solution, because his masters told him so, and it feels right.

K: not paying much attention, are you? I have dozens of times,
including quite recently, have rejected both communism and anarchism…
but hay, don’t let the truth stop you from making idiotic statements…
and as for the rest, just the usual inane insults to cover the fact
that S. has nothing at all to offer us…

Is liberalism/democracy perfect? No, but it is the best political system we
have yet created… and it beats the hell out of the other choices
we have, dictatorship, oligarchy, monarchy, or our modern
American political system which is an ‘‘Corporatocracy’’
I would much rather have a liberal democracy than any
of these other choices…

Kropotkin

1 Like
12

this shows that transgenders, and 2spirits, are natural superiors, natural elites, natural greatness. Transgenders are disproportionately higher IQ than the normie population.

This is why Native Americans chose 2spirits to rule their tribes.

This is why, rock and rollers were natural 2spirits, because of their greatness.

13

Agreed. we must be vigilant against fake news and point it out on both sides. Both the left and right use propoganda or exaggerated isolated incidents.

My immigration concerns are not from one isolated incident but an overall “vibe” or pattern. Would you say this is concerning or not concerning:

Then consider that we are still in the Crusades and the Crusades were never over but are still in the dark ages.

These immigrants are not atheists like you. You and them are not the same.

Look at even the atheist ones of them. Although its probably fake news and they were not atheist anti-islam like the fake news says. Europeans have no free-speech so i assume they are inverting the facts to push the Woke European Narrative:

14

Of late, I have been reading quite of bit of science books,
they have obvious value but just as importantly for me,
they have some value for me because of what science does
and doesn’t do… and that revolves around this question
of problems…

In 1897 physicist Lord Kelvin and remarked:

‘‘There is nothing new to be discovered in physics now.
All that remains is more and more precise measurement’’

Kelvin missed the mark by that much :pinching_hand:

The real question of physics and indeed all of science,
is this idea of problems… what is the problem?
and understanding how science identifies problem could
prove to be useful in philosophy… So what is the criteria for
understanding philosophical problems? How do we know what is
and what isn’t a problem within philosophy and is that problem
a philosophy problem or another problem say, for politics?

How is philosophy supposed to organized itself in such a way
as too be able to identity and solve problems…
or said another way, how do we epistemologically know,
what is or isn’t a problem within philosophy?

Kropotkin

15

True, but the thing about political liberalism is that it has been forced into merging with neoliberal global capitalism. Now the “liberal” part is mostly for show, an ideology to pacify the masses and make them even more easily controllable while also serving on another level as a kind of blanket excuse for a sort of “laissez faire” freedom that wants to act as if there should be no social norms, no taboos, no limits, no boundaries, no hard concepts, no true and false, but just an amorphous blob of whatever anyone wants to individually do say or think… so long as it does not challenge neoliberalism itself. That is the only ‘hard rule’ to the system.

I think your emphasis on class differences is helpful, because it can be used to cut through a lot of the BS. Liberal and conservative politics in the US have largely merged into mutualism for neoliberal global capitalism, they just do it while yelling ideological slogans and insults at each other. The political rivalry has become almost entirely emotion-based and devoid of actually significant differences between the sides when it comes to the direction society and economy is moving in.

I say that because no matter who is in charge, liberals or conservatives, things keep going in the same direction:

More reckless debt and spending

More wars

More divide between the rich and everyone else

More development of transhumanism and technocracy

More surveillance and control systems going up

More ideological capture and media-based control of the populace

More corruption, fraud and control of politics by wealthy private interests

2 Likes
16

@ProfessorX

Control in society only works when a majority of people reside in it feel they are free in life but when a large segment of the population knows that they have no freedom to do much of anything where they know absolutely that they live in a state of captivity the mechanisms of control erodes very quickly overnight.

A growing large segment of the population within this global liberal economic capitalism understands that none of the liberal pretenses are even real which brings total systemic collapse into the equation.

It’s hard to have a political system of social or political equality where economic equality is found virtually nowhere, total systemic collapse becomes an inevitability of the entire system as a result.

:clown_face:

17

ProfessorX:
More reckless debt and spending

More wars

More divide between the rich and everyone else

More development of transhumanism and technocracy

More surveillance and control systems going up

More ideological capture and media-based control of the populace

More corruption, fraud and control of politics by wealthy private interests

K: the question becomes this, how do we know, KNOW, which ones
of these ideas is right or wrong? for example, I don’t believe that
‘‘reckless debt and spending’’ is a problem, but you have made
a moral judgement about it… the word ‘‘reckless’’ is a moral judgement,
because how are we to know that certain spending is ‘‘reckless’’ unless
we make a moral judgement about it… spending tax dollars on
billionaires, is that reckless or is that prudent spending? and how
are we to judge such a matter? I hold that it is reckless because
it puts money into the hands of people that won’t spend it, it goes
to the billionaires and stops there… and that, in my mind is
reckless, but how do I justify that belief of mine? the same goes
true for all the other points you brought out, how are we to know
the value of these points? What criteria do we use?

Kropotkin

18

They’re all wrong.

There, I answered your question.

1 Like
19

No, it’s basic math. You know, 1+1=2 kind of stuff.

Like, all US national debt + all US national unfunded liabilities + all current US national spending and deficits = totally unable to be paid off ever (unless you intentionally debase your own currency by at least a factor of 100, which they are already working on).

Problem is, that is reckless because it is stupid, irresponsible, and harmful. It hurs everyone except the uber-rich who own all the assets like real estate and land and businesses and stocks, so inflation is all right and good for them meanwhile everyone else gets wiped out. I would call that reckless. There is a clear morality to it, but again this is just basic math.

Unless you think that the rich wiping out the savings and purchasing power of the 99% of everyone else is somehow either “good” or “not a moral issue” :thinking:

20

I don’t know, at least not until you try.

Do you not have confidence in your own beliefs? If you do have confidence in them, then you certainly can form basic arguments to justify them, right?